Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[goodmorning]

we're killing me today or not at all

that's it

lynch me right the fuck now

[Raskolnikov]

GM reads?

[CloudKicker]

@jaack im fairly sure that rask is scum and im not giving her another day

[CloudKicker]

Rask makes the most sens compared to everyone on the table btw, the hoop flip and the d1 wagon + other stuff, individual hard sr, her hard tr on creat all this is scum

[Creature]

Damn, wished I could do more.

[CloudKicker]

CReature please, can you revise the rask read ? I think she knows she was almost getting lynched yday and appealed to me to quickhammer hoop in the hope she can still lives 1 day, then somehow everyone fliped her read on her and got ate'd pretty hard.

[CloudKicker]

Somewhat comprehensive list of Rask posting yday when she was getting voted by BV+jack+ myself. Shes saying multiple time that she wouldnt mind getting lynched if thats what masons wanted, if it could help town but at the very same time shes ate'ing pretty fucking hard MariaR and BV but not everyone else. She never somewhat reconsidered her hoop fos the whole day but she kept throwing shade at me and even pushed the idea that hoop was the lynch if i was a fake claim, imo thats opening the pool + bad reason to lynch a town for an easy ml -> some comments

Spoiler:

Maria if you're town, I'm town, AND gm is town why has it been so ridiculously hard to push or wagon her this game?

Rask starting to ate maria really hard here.

The problem with selfvoting is it would give people counter-ammunition when I proceed to full-nuclear lash them out postgame

Post-game ate, scummy

You can lose the game, but you can't afford to lose the moral high ground.

Post-game ate, scummy

If you're actually scum though very well done.

Her to BV before the BV mason claim, thats a sort of buddying, its like saying ''I townread you despite you voting me, but in the case you are mafia (implying youre wrong) then you are a very skilled player'' -> trying to reflect the feeling of an outplayed townie who might tr mafia, but this is a textbook scumtell from EM and i do that as mafia all the time because it works

I wonder what your main account is.

Again, buddying, Implying his main is someone skilled, shes implying that shes getting outplayed by possibly a skilled player and is ''curious'' about the main ? I dont think she even asked that in the whole game, she only did when getting heavily fosed by bv and getting lynched ding ding

Without exception though, every time someone's made me legitimately annoyed they have flipped town.

Again, buddying. Implying shes town everytime she go annoyed and that ppl who annoys her ends up flipping town -> buddying. i also use this as scum

Scum are always those friendly quiet guys sticking up for you when you do get totally shafted by the pillars of town
or if they do oppose you are so completely spineless and ineffectual about it you don't notice their little squeaking getting drowned out by everything else

little itty bitty mousies
SQUEAK SQUEAK SQUEAK
cowardice and spinelessness

It's all over GM it's all over hoopla it was sotty in a nutshell

maria has a good scumgame and doesn't act like that as either align and I can't read her for shit so respect that but I don't feel it.

Those last 2 quotes are throwing shade + self meta or trying to influence how people view the gamestate. Shes an experienced player and she sould know thats not how good scum play, imo shes just doing that as to give herself more credit with self-meta while throwing shade, again at gm + hoop and even mariar but in a scummy way, this look like a mariar/rask team-tell where she lefts something ''open'' to interpretation so if she flips its not too obvious, something like that

Meh, if you are town, I basically blew it this entire day phase. You certainly haven't been playing "scummy" or badly. On the contrary, I thought you were being far more reasonable than most. But nothing else makes sense and the teams you are proposing make much less sense than you being scum. I'm still agonizing over this although you can't tell from the way I make pushes and I have D1 open in a separate tab looking for anything that might contradict you being scum.


I don't have a strong townread on Hoopla and it's possible that when she saw herself and Sotty7 both being pressured, they decided a one-way bus of the person who made a PR claim was their best shot. But there's still the way Sotty7 buddied her on D1 and Hoopla never buddied her back that makes me think it was Sotty7-scum and Hoopla-town. I also think that Sotty7 enlisting MariaR's help in pushing Jaack and using her Jaack push as a reason to townread her is something scum do to town. That's more likely than two scum just deciding to push Jaack and townreading each other for making the same push. That leaves us with GM. I'm still looking for any indication that might point her way and coming up short.

BV before pussying out

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65286

Everyone fucked up early but at one point d2-3 scum mutually hard pushed each other.
I preferred lynching the scum I felt more confident on than the other one, but compromised on the other one in meh fashion for the d3 lynch as I saw them as possibly both scum anyways.
And I looked really bad as a partner in that case for that preference.

This guy MagnaOfIllusion just came in before that lynch and was CONSTANTLY pushing me on associations and scumteams for the rest of the game and it was annoying as fuck because it was all earlygame stuff I couldn't say a word to, and eventually the lynchpool d4/pre-lylo boiled down to me and another person I KNEW was town but I had to lynch them over myself because those were the only two options this guy even allowed. He had reasoning like "if it was a really good bus as you theorise then why weren't you convinced by it?" and "oh you defending yourself like this is the classic scum move when they're under pressure" and so on and we kept having arguments where after days and days it broke down and I basically called him ignorant and delusional and he told me to get bent, and literally replacements into the game are what saved me because they had different views and weren't around early. The worst part was scum wasn't even playing well they were actually completely terrible and obvious because it looked like an easy win.

Even I was having some trouble because none of the teams made sense with a third but I followed my individual reads and stuck true, and finally we got the lynch in lylo because he "would feel less bad losing to me-scum than lurkersac obvscummcgee" and didn't even really change his mind, and won right there as it turned out it was actually traitor third in the end (I know this is a HUGE taboo to ever mention or bring up for some reason but fuck it) and if I did a single conciliatory action or listened to anybody else that game was a loss. But in this case the only other viewpoint in the game that remotely makes sense is jaack's.

Shes using others game as to self-meta further, i do that as scum because i change my meta all the time and thats what good scum should do

Maria please go back to hoopla.
Cloud hammer hoopla.

Maria PLEASE put hoopla back to l-1

Sweet fucking jesus I've never seen rask beg before
VOTE: Hoopia

Cloud please hammer hoopla for me.

Rask appealing hard to me and mariar to lynch town!hoop

Rask you realize that you softed pretty darn hard, its not that i dont trust you its just that im not okay quickhammering someone youre strongarming when you were my only somwhwat serious scumread d2 yknow

It's not a quickhammer. She claimed VT, the day is near deadline, and if you don't do it someone will probably unvote and this entire process will repeat itself.

Hoopla, GM, and Sotty7 as the team makes far less sense than Rask, Creature/Michel, and Sotty7. Even if Hoopla is scum, I have a tough time getting to GM-scum. I could be way off track and Rask's passion and persistence has definitely eroded my Rask scumread a bit but he still makes more sense to me than the alternatives.

VOTE: Rask

@Cloud, Hoopla - let's get back here.

Again Bv before pussying out and he was right imo

Actually that was my initial guess before IAI flipped, huh.

Slight scumtell but mafia usually are more conscious about pr reads and whatnot, half the town pushed on BV at some point but she probably knew he was pr from her pov

Just fucking kill me now.

walmart ATE

Get arona to vote me I'm tired of this.

walmart ATE

A game where competence means you "have too much information".

walmart ATE

I've been going on the hope that arona would end up voting hoopla but if you're masons together he's not going to go against you.

walmart ATE

Should lynch hoopla.
Even if cloud is scum he DID NOT create that fakeclaim by itself, hoopla prob drafted it for him to fit mason setup.
{GM, hoopla} >>>> {Cloud, hoopla} ?if cloud is actually fake [GM wouldn't create that fakeclaim either]

Don't think maria is scum anymore.

Again, team telling with mariar + throwing shade at me + using IT as leverage to get a somewhat terrible read on hoop and then to lynch/vote him, THIS POST WAS SCUMMOTIVATED

Offering myself as the lynch at multiple points was pretty much claiming VT though.

She says that but never actually did

[CloudKicker]

So this further proves rask is buddying up to mariar or that theyre both mafia either way i want her gone

[Raskolnikov]

Hey cloud what's the difference between AtE and actually being upset?

[CloudKicker]

id say trying to use it to manipulate and a gain

[MariaR]

Why the fuck did gm say the line I do as town word for word lol
joey can vouch I say that all the time

[CloudKicker]

@Maria creature please vote rask

[CloudKicker]

@GM you should vote rask too

[BlackVoid]

What I'm wondering is how Jaack suddenly started being thrown around as a lynch possibility. GM started that yesterday I think and MariaR latched onto it. I've been townreading Jaack independent of Sotty7's flip and with that flip, I just don't see any way Jaack bussed her the way he did. The Jaack suspicion is likely coming from scum who don't want to get eliminated quickly based on pairings. Based on today's posting, Cloud has been my strongest townread along with Jaack... which isn't really helpful since I was virtually certain they both were town anyways.

We've got a pool of four: MariaR, Rask, GM, Creature. Here's what I want from each of you. Make a case on who you think the scumteam is, based off of interactions with Sotty7 as well as each other. If you are town, you know that two of the remaining three are scum. Who is it?

I'm not happy enough with Rask's "I'm pushing GM and none of the non-GM teams work." Because GM-Creature doesn't really work as GM was pushing him all along and he seemed completely certain that Creature was town anyways. From his POV, it has to be GM/MariaR but he isn't pushing MariaR.

MariaR's strong townread on Rask is bordering on improbable. If she's town, she should know that scum are two of GM/Creature/Rask but suddenly decides to bring Jaack into the lynchpool.

I don't like GM's suggestion of telling us to lynch her today. If you are town, you are wrong on one of your townreads on Rask, and MariaR. It would be really helpful if you could point out where you think you went wrong.

Creature - what do you think of Rask now? Who's scum?

Anyways, I think I want MariaR or Rask today. Leaning towards MariaR but I really want to see reads from GM.

[BlackVoid]

Damn, wished I could do more.

Do more what? Helped stopped Hoopla's lynch? You were one of the people on it.

[Creature]

I mean today.

[Creature]

I don't know what to do today.

[BlackVoid]

Well, you are the only one out of the pool of four I don't want to lynch so I could use your help.

You are either wrong about Rask or our scumteam is GM and MariaR. How strongly do you still feel about Rask being town after that flip?

[Raskolnikov]

Idk creature did legitimately towntell and play exactly as usual d1 and 2 but legitimately did start to decline and stop doing anything around d3

[Raskolnikov]

TBH I think most likely is GM/maria with GM doing her own thing all game and maria purposely hard defending though at this point

But I'm not sure enough to really case it either. I've already made my case on GM and beat that to death so dunno what else to say.

[Creature]

It was good when I replaced in and had a lot of ideas.

[MariaR]

I think the scumteam is Creature + one of GM + Jack because I was looking at extra possibilities doesn't make me scum do I have to give a case on why I'm not scum again

I feel like this game is solved form my pov.

[Creature]

Well, you are the only one out of the pool of four I don't want to lynch so I could use your help.

You are either wrong about Rask or our scumteam is GM and MariaR. How strongly do you still feel about Rask being town after that flip?

Not really.

[Creature]

I'm fine with lynching MariaR today.

[MariaR]

I WOULDN'T DEFEND A GOON SWEET JESUS
I know I can win games by myself and bringing extra attention to myself as scum isn't something I would do.