Mini #537 Happy Tree Friends Mafia - Game Over

[kuribo]

Vote: Phate

because the F isn't PH balanced!

[kuribo]

I don't like that reaction from a single vote in the random vote stage. It seems a little defensive.

It didn't seem defensive at all to me. All he said was that he was too tired to random vote, and then random voted someone else.

Also, roffman, what's the point of putting three votes on someone this early in the game?

[kuribo]

Seriously though, how much effort is needed to pick a name for a random vote though that you can be too tired to do it?

Even more alarmingly, he actually DID random vote. Hm...

[kuribo]

Yeah, roffman, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you shouldn't do what you felt was right.

A little jumpy, maybe?

[kuribo]

Your right in the fact that it is non-verifiable, and i wasn't using it to explain anything. All i was saying was that due to being drugged up, i could not explain the logic i was sure i had which lead to my erratic voting behaviour.

Yes, you are trying to explain your actions. By stating that you can't explain your logic because you were hepped up on goofballs, you're explaining your lack of logic.

It feels like you're trying to get a free pass for future behavior. If someone called you on it, you've already tried to establish precedent that you post while zapped out on painkillers.

[kuribo]

Vote: ryan

Roffman doesn't seem scummy to me. He seems like a newb. By comparison, your attempts to throw suspicion on him seem scummy.

The scummy bit for my money comes into play when he sets up excuses for wonky activity later in the game.

No free passes just because you're zapped out of your gourd.

[kuribo]

I'm going to launch into a prediction here:

One of the three folk involved in the flamewar is scum.

Metagaming a mistake ryan made in the past doesn't help us catch scum here, so the reasoning for the first part of the debate is unhelpful to us.

JDodge and Phate, it seems like you guys have been baiting him from the start. JDodge, you started with a crack about his posting the role PM previously--- in a completely unrelated game. Phate, you jumped down ryan's throat after you hadn't been involved. Once Phate and ryan were throwing crap all over each other, that's when you jumped back in, JDodge.

JDodge, you told FairyThatIsPunk to "contribute or die," but I think you need to follow your own advice.

Trying to bait a player into being modkilled or replaced is NOT helpful to us.

@roffman: It may be true, or it may not. You said you don't intend to use it as a free pass in the future, but let's face it--- there's no way we can know your intent.

[kuribo]

there's no way we can know your intent.

Just a question: isn't the intent always to win, either as pro-town, pro-scum, or pro-self win like SK and jester? or are their other roles that try to win in other methods?

Of course the intent is to win, but without knowing someone's winning conditions, we can't judge their words for the intent.

I cannot know anyone's intent since I don't know what winning condition they may have.

[kuribo]

EBWOP: By "can't judge," I mean we can't know for certain. The whole point of this game is to judge one another.

[kuribo]

I think it's already been shown how/why the two were on me, to take away blame/suspicion from themselves. Look back at the game and tell me how they were doing anything more than lurking when the "discussion" broke out between us three.

If you'll read what I posted, I didn't give you a "bye," either. I said that one of you three is most likely scum.

If you're town, then I'd say the likely outcome would be that one is scum, and the other was pushing your buttons.

Of course, if you're the scum, that all goes out the window, and then there's always the possibility that you're scum AND one of them is scum.

You're making alot of assumptions regarding their reasoning for sidetracking the town.

[kuribo]

Jeez man, how am I supposed to have fun?

Nice of you to join the conversation.

Why were you lurking?

[kuribo]

I have a feeling that competentpsycho is town. I don't think Ryan would let himself be replaced if he had a night kill. He could have just pushed for us to lynch Phate or JDodge and then killed the other. Of course, it's also entirely possible that this is all some sort of ridiculously elaborate plan. Unlikely, but possible I would suppose.

Yeah, I kinda tend to agree with that. So we have to look at Phate and JDodge, and ask ourselves if either of them knew him to be town and decided to force him out, or if this was just a jerk move on their part.

[kuribo]

I get it. Anyone else with knowledge of HTF characters should get it as well. Don't say what it is if you do, no sense in exclaiming it.

And either way, no way of knowing the alignment that the character has even if you know the character.

[kuribo]

What I think he's saying is that obviously Fairy can post at least a vague outline of things, whether she's choosing not to or not.

We have no way of knowing if this is a real post restriction or not, or whether it's a town role or not.

[kuribo]

someone said earlier to not say - not sure how it would help scum but I am game for the moment just in case.

:rolleyes: at this point, all the scum has to do is look at the website (already posted) for about 10 seconds. all the hints are already here in the thread.


I think the point is more that it opens us up for idle speculation about peoples' roles---- which won't help because we don't know their alignment as it pertains to this game.

[kuribo]

Okay, regardless of alignment, Fairy needs to start putting forth some info quickly, or she's going to end up with a vote from me.

I always find it scummy when people threaten to throw a single vote on someone. Are you looking for the town's approval in case she turns out to be town later?

[kuribo]

vote: FairyThatIsPunk

for some more pressure

I saw someone else say this in another game, and I totally agree with it.

It doesn't apply any pressure if you TELL THEM THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING!

[kuribo]

How could putting someone this close to a lynch when it's obvious that they have a post restriction be pro-town?

I agree with this statement. Asshole that you are, you're right on this one.

Seriously, unless we know that Fairy can't possibly be town, why lynch her? Further, alot of post-restricted roles have some sort of power that they can use during the night phase. Do we really want to lose it without at least SOME sort of idea as to its usefulness?

We'd feel mighty stupid if it turned out she was a night vig or a cop.

[kuribo]

FoS: kuribo

Terrible logic. 'Don't lynch her this quickly on the basis of her post restriction' is good logic. 'Don't lynch her this quickly because there's a possibility that she has a night power' is awful logic, even if it were true that PR ~= night power.

If I knew you to be a good player, I might think that this was an attempt to get Fairytown lynched by defending her case with digital shit. As it is, it might be an attempt to save Fairyscum or just a really weak attempt by a townie to contribute.

And the sun doesn't burn white hot, drift lazily, or emit piercing screams, and it's not located in the stratosphere.

The bit about defending someone poorly is somewhat of a reach, don't you think?

And as for the bit about the sun: WITH A FEW SMALL MODIFICATIONS, ANY CANOE CAN TRAVEL THROUGH TIME!!!

[kuribo]

How could putting someone this close to a lynch when it's obvious that they have a post restriction be pro-town?

just about anything that promotes discussion is protown.

There you go. I am not trying to lynch her, but she is hiding something which is anti-town.

You don't know that what she's hiding is anti-town, though.

[kuribo]

she did at best (

at least I think so

)

This is basically what I am scared of. I guess there would be an easy way to ask her. Fairy, if this is the best you can do due to your post restriction: give a thumbs up,
and if you could somehow get away with being more helpful, just haven't found a reason to yet: give a thumbs down.

After that same thing for if you can vote or not.

Stop trying to lead Fairy around, competent.

The circular logic is obvious:

Competentpsycho- Fairy, you need to contribute!
(Fairy contributes)
Competentpsycho- YOU CALL THAT CONTRIBUTION? CONTRIBUTE!

Telling her to add something to the conversation, and then complaining when that it wasn't enough and she should do more? Yeah, that's a circle, because when she DOES do more, you could say it's not enough.

Are you just attacking Fairy because YOU don't have anything worthwhile to contribute? The whole "POST MORE" argument isn't helping the town, especially when the general consensus is that she's doing alright thus far.

[kuribo]

The circular logic is obvious:

Competentpsycho- Fairy, you need to contribute!
(Fairy contributes)
Competentpsycho- YOU CALL THAT CONTRIBUTION? CONTRIBUTE!

Telling her to add something to the conversation, and then complaining when that it wasn't enough and she should do more? Yeah, that's a circle, because when she DOES do more, you could say it's not enough.

Ok, CRAPLOGIC.

Listen, you got the order weird.

me - you need to contribute
her - the "contribution" you speak of which is translated as circular logic
me - WTF (translated by you guys into "Contribute more" - I actually meant "WTF" as in I don't understand)

so apparently:

1) Fairy can see the future
2) You know this

or:

Your logic = TOTAL CRAP

How could she be calling what I had done up to that point circular logic? That is what I am asking. You are including things as evidence to the circular logic that happened after the accusation, if that is what she was doing. That doesn't work in an argument.

The person I would expect an actual answer to this question from is roffman who was the one who speculated that it means circular logic.

unvote

but I still expect some info as to whether or not you can vote/ contribute better, Fairy.

vote: kuribo

for crap logic

Jeez, dude, calm down.

Defensive much?

[kuribo]

The person I would expect an actual answer to this question from is roffman who was the one who speculated that it means circular logic.

The only thing that i could read from fairy's post was that she thought u had circular logic and would result in you getting lynched. i posted that as an assumption, stating i was very likely to be wrong. No one else postulated on what fairy was trying to say, and somehow, my interpretation, which had no basis beyond that one post, got adopted as truth. People, can you please think for yourselves and possibly read through this and post your own translations besides jumping on the first post as fact?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I just sort of assumed that if your interpretation had been wrong, Fairy would have given some indication.

[kuribo]

When you use crap logic against me, yes. I am not taking others' opinions as fact without thinking critically about it. Unlike some people, which is why my vote is where it is. When I am town and people use craplogic on me to explain some opinion they are copying, that usually means scum, since scum have to try to convince people that a townie is scum. Therefore, they have to use crappy evidence, most of the time from other people since they don't want to risk making shit up.


So Phate, this is how the Fairy thing becomes pro-town: it creates discussion unlike the standstill this game was at previously, getting scum to slip up.

Okay,

1- We don't know that you're town, so discard the whole "When I am town..." part.

2- "crap logic" isn't scummy, sometimes people are just wrong.

[kuribo]

I could go for a SensFan vote, since he said 2 weeks ago that he'd post his complete thoughts and we're still waiting. Really only popped in to vote FTIP and explain it.

Unvote, Vote: Sensfan

[kuribo]

*FairyThatIsPunk gets blown away in a sudden gush of wind*

I've been trying to see this in context to Holy's question and I can't think of any way in which this can be an answer. Anyone have insight as to what the hell this is trying to say?

Also, one more day till this game (hopefully) speeds up... can't wait.

I think it was just a bump, and I think you're fishing.

[kuribo]

I was prodded in a way that made my PM box uncomfortable.

You'll be hearing from an attorney (who will show in open court, just where on the doll I was prodded.)

[kuribo]

I was prodded in a way that made my PM box uncomfortable.

You'll be hearing from an attorney (who will show in open court, just where on the doll I was prodded.)

Can we make it a class action suit?

sorry, townies only!

[kuribo]

Hey all, i'm back. Just catching up on what is happening and it seems like we have regressed back to the FTIP thing. Beyond that, it looks like we are discussing the fact that Jdodge is making super cop claims (ie. i know all the scum).

I don't get that impression at all.

[kuribo]

That was the impression i got from the fact people were saying he always plays like this. I assumed they were talking about saying he knew who was scum. Could you please explain what impression you have of what is occuring?

Maybe I misread you. Looked like you had said you thought he had special knowledge.

[kuribo]

Quite a bit ago, or hadn't you noticed?

[kuribo]

Does anyone realized that we're on a deadline?

ever since post 209

[kuribo]

I figured out Phate's role. He is the Grammar Nazi.

in that case, he should take the word "phail" to fark where people still laugh at that

[kuribo]

What is fark?

a place where funny goes to die

[kuribo]

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people."

[kuribo]

And why

did

you evade my question? Yeah, come on..

Why are you pushing this? His response indicates that it's a stupid question because if he's scum, he's certainly not going to tell you.

[kuribo]

I never said you did ask me, nor was I answering for him. I was questioning your logic behind pushing a non-issue.

[kuribo]

Vote:Roffman

Yeah scummy. I'm think we have caught newbie scum here.

BTW, If I die tonight, I want everyone to know that I don't like anything Sensfan has done and I would much appreciate his lynch.

"Hid in wrong house".

Unvote, vote: SensFan

.

That's a really good point, but if he thought SensFan was scum, why would he hide in his house? Wouldn't that mean he was expecting to die?

[kuribo]

Or did he take one for the team?

[kuribo]

vote: Roffman

That's odd... I'm not quite sure why you would vote for someone that's been dead for 2 days now... hmmm.

[kuribo]

On a side note, speaking of jesters got me thinking - pacone. Anyone else get that vibe, or am I just being paranoid?

No, you're either paranoid or scum. Why would you think there's a jester?

[kuribo]

EBWOP - lack of NK could be from a doc in addition to a roleblocker. Or the mafia might be doing something sneaky (ie forgoing a NK to gain something) .

So which one of these is you?

[kuribo]

stop fishing kuribo, its looks bad.

I'm not fishing, I want to know which of these scenarios he feels proud enough about to have mentioned.

[kuribo]

EBWOP: Or, more likely, which one he is more disappointed to have seen go through.

psycho has been scummy for quite awhile, and that he brought up mafia "forgoing an NK to gain something," gives me pause. I asked "Which one of these is you," but I think the clear implication was "Are you scum forgoing an NK to gain something?"

[kuribo]

^That's odd, lynch happens on Day, not Night.

What does that have to do with anything? He didn't say anything about lynching at night.

[kuribo]

I think that it looks like Holy may be trying to mislead us.

[kuribo]

EBWOP: is that means with 7 players alive, only 4 votes needed for a lynch, so the majority vote in the town are on mafia hands?

How would you know that?

FoS: Holy

[kuribo]

I think that if phate is lying and we

don't

lynch him because we are afraid of what would happen, it will be pretty much game over anway.

I don't think K-scope would make a town role with so much potential harm for the town, so I assume Phate went too far when he made it up.

Are you saying that you would rather risk losing the game right now than try and prolong our chances? That's a very weak argument.

Beloved Princess is a known (though not common) role. While, yes, it seems a safe role for a paranoid scum to claim, it doesn't seem like one that would immediately jump out. Frankly, if he's scum and making this claim, it's a bold move.

[kuribo]

No fair, I wanted to vote pacone too, especially after CP noted that he seems way too eager to lynch the claimed Beloved Princess.

[kuribo]

yeah, well let's let him claim first. If someone hammers before the claim they should be considered scum regardless of the alignment of pacone.

I fully intend to let him claim, I'm just sad.

[kuribo]

Wait, you're both claiming Beloved Princess?

[kuribo]

I change my mind on no lynch - new theory. Pacone and Phate are scum together and they were given a fake-claim of beloved princess. Phate fakeclaims. Pacone isn't paying attention. Pacone fake-claims same thing.

Who thinks this is likely?

I do. But possibly, pacone claiming Phate's role, Phate claiming pacone's role, or simply the beloved princess claims were an absolute lies.

I think it's entirely possible. One thing for certain, one of them is absolutely scum. It's like that old Batman episode where The Joker has kidnapped someone by using an ambulance, and when Batman gives chase, he sees two identical ambulances. He refuses to give chase for fear of stopping the wrong one.

Of course, we have to stop one of these players. I don't think pacone wasn't paying attention to Phate's claim--- he says in his claim that Phate is lying because the roles are so similar.

[kuribo]

all of this may be obvious, but since i've been away for a while and not been in a game with many of the roles in this one i felt the need to work this through out loud (in a sense)

Either we have a day-killing serial killer, or the mafia gets its kills during the day.

Or we have a day-killing vig who obviously keeps messing up.

I'm inclined to think it's the first option, just because it makes the most sense.

[kuribo]

Or we have a day-killing vig who obviously keeps messing up.

If that's what we have then they need to sit on their fingers.

I would find it hard to believe that any vig would be so stupid as to keep killing townies.

[kuribo]

Kuribo, you go first. Then choose someone to go after you. No one claim out of order, even if you have a counterclaim.

I'm Flippy, a town-aligned suicide bomber.

competentpsycho, you're up next.

[kuribo]

I'm Flippy, a town-aligned suicide bomber.

can you explain? cause the wiki says suicide bomber is an alias for Jester or Terrorist

It means that I get to pick someone, killing both them and myself. So it's sort of like a one-shot suicidal vig.

[kuribo]

Yeah, and obviously I would need to be extra sure if I decided to use my power, since a misfire could result in two dead townies. (Me and the other guy.)

If pacone had turned up town, I'd have killed Phate.

[kuribo]

CSP's claim sounds credible, and taking the blame for the Chucky kill moreso. At least, at first blush, I mean.

[kuribo]

@Zone

No, there is no requirement for my ability. I can use it anytime, day or night, the only hitch is that when I kill the other person, I am killed as well.

[kuribo]

Alternatively, Zone, how do we know you're not scum? Maybe that's how you knew about pacone.

[kuribo]

Why would i bus the person making the kills???? The only scum kill we've seen so far poisoning, and he was the poisoner. that would be retarded.

This is true, if the mafia needs the poisoner in order to get their kills, you trying to take out pacone would make very little sense.

Holy, prepare to die.

[kuribo]

I kinda feel like the bit about Petunia being cute but vengeful isn't so. In the series, she's never directly caused the death of another character. Her main thing is that she becomes suicidal if she can't stay clean.

[kuribo]

Well, if I'm waiting for CSP, I won't be able to post until 8:30 am tomorrow morning, since I'm generally not around after 3pm.

[kuribo]

So long, Holy.

[kuribo]

^hm, well unless we got scum on todays lynch, which I suspect is Zoneace.

Two, if they can only kill as long as their poisoner is around. Guess we'll find out!

[kuribo]

wait, i see what you meant

[kuribo]

Holy, you ignore the fact that Zoneace all but killed pacone himself, and that he would willingly kill the Poisoner, which would be Zone's best chance of winning as scum, not to mention decreasing the town-to-scum ratio to hasten lylo.

[kuribo]

I realized too late that we had a Psychiatrist, and thus probably a serial killer.

Also, I never heard of a Mafia aligned Beloved Princess.

[kuribo]

Anyhow, this was a really fun game. K-scope, I'll play a game modded by you again any day.

[kuribo]

Ah, I see now. Interesting role.