Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

CloudKicker · Post Post #3375 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:53 am

when it fliped town*

BlackVoid · Post Post #3376 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:54 am

Don't hammer yet by the way. I'm re-reading ISOs and want to discuss a few things.

BlackVoid · Post Post #3377 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:00 am

I'm midway through reading GM and I'm really conflicted. There are some things she does that seem to come from a scum perspective (the lame townread on me, the easy backing off of BBT when he said he was busy, not voting Sotty7 despite suspecting her, leaving her vote on Victor and not really being focused on achieving a good lynch on D1), but there are also some interactions with Sotty7 that just seem outright bizarre for scum to have with their partners. For example, telling Sotty7 that she wasn't interested in helping her produce content and shutting her out while Sotty7 takes a more consoling and placatory stance towards GM, trying to butter her up and engage her. If scum-theater was what they wanted, I think GM would be happy to have back and forth arguments with Sotty7 but that just doesn't look like it. There's also Sotty7's post where she encourages me to push GM on why she said she would join the Sotty7 wagon. So, I don't know. Need time to think.

havingfitz · Post Post #3378 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:45 am

@Cloud...you being upset in my situation is how you would react. I'm not you. This is a game...it's not LYLO...and you guys have a lot more invested in it then I do. I do not want to be lynched and I do not want to do a disservice to deceased town who put a lot of effort into this game before I replaced in but it's not my call. Scum are not going to like my cases on them (nor town if I have it wrong) so it's an uphill battle. If you guys think GM was especially scummy that's between you and her. I've read little to nothing GM has said because I know her alignment (town btw) and I cannot explain anything she did without making an assumptions. So why bother?

@BV...if you want my read on anything...any occurrence let me know. I can't speak for GM but I'm happy to give my opinion on anything else. If I do get through today I should have more time to actually read through the entire game over the weekend/during N4.

BlackVoid · Post Post #3379 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:48 am

If you can give me links to previous games as town where you replaced in and caught up in a similar manner, that would be very helpful. I'm talking about games where you skimmed lots of pages looking for claims and votes.

MariaR · Post Post #3380 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:48 am

I don't mind giving him more time to read why not.

MariaR · Post Post #3381 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:49 am

There's a slim but doubtful chance he's town
and if he's scum this is just giving us more fuel to the fire.

havingfitz · Post Post #3382 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:03 am

BV...I don't do my catch ups and proclaim "Here are all the claims!" ...the people playing already know them. I make note of them for myself. The only reason I explained here was because I was questioned about knowing of the claims. I have all my games tracked so I'll look for late replace in examples. This game might have the record. Back asap.

BlackVoid · Post Post #3383 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:06 am

If Fitz is scum, it pretty much has to be with Creature. I can't see MariaR trying to power through a lynch on her partner when it would clear Rask and leave her and Creature as the most likely two next lynches. I also didn't really see MariaR, GM, and Sotty7 as a team co-ordinating that early BBT push all together. I doubt it's GM and Rask not only for the obvious reasons but because of GM's D2 vote on him.

So, does GM/Creature make sense? I don't know. GM parked a vanity vote on Creature while Hoopla and Jaack were being run up. Then continued to try and push Creature when Sotty7 was getting lynched. But if she was focused on bussing, why not bus the partner that already claimed and would likely be lynched anyways instead of focusing on the one who would be more likely to make it through? The obvious explanation I can think of is that she didn't think Creature was likely to get lynched that day. She only started casting around for Rask and IAI wagons when Sotty7 got heat.

@Fitz, yeah I just want to see how you replace in when you have lots of pages to read.

Can you also clarify for me what exactly you did upon replacing in. Were you following the game before? When did you actually start reading? Did you click on every single page in your initial skim?

Creature · Post Post #3384 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:15 am

Damn when someone scumslips and someone else says it can only be scum with me.

BlackVoid · Post Post #3385 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:16 am

Who's the partner then?

havingfitz · Post Post #3386 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:20 am

In post 3383, BlackVoid wrote:Can you also clarify for me what exactly you did upon replacing in. Were you following the game before? When did you actually start reading? Did you click on every single page in your initial skim?

Wasn't following game.
Started reading (aside from looking at player list and game state) when mod accepted my offer.
I click every page. If no votes on a page I might spend 5-10 seconds on it unless something catches my eye. Pages with votes might be a minute. Probably took me 75-90 minutes to do initial skim.

Game links coming next.

Raskolnikov · Post Post #3387 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:20 am

I mean, I could see maria lynching gm and trying to get me to lynch creature over her next day. She would then win a 3p if clouds there.
You see 3 options of maria gm me today but if the more likely choice is between maria gm I can see why she'd bus that slot over get lynched herself especially with how gm has played.
And if she's scum she knows that turn today probably alienates me somewhat in future if I don't end up lynched.

I've also been wondering if the no-care game from gm would fit traitor as she did seem entirely uninterested and apathetic.

Raskolnikov · Post Post #3388 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:24 am

In post 3383, BlackVoid wrote:So, does GM/Creature make sense? I don't know. GM parked a vanity vote on Creature while Hoopla and Jaack were being run up.

What's noteworthy is GM's initial creature vote, unlike most GM votes wasn't vanity as that was a growing wagon and viable at the time and she did some casing on it. For GM standards she actually pushed that one a bit.

MariaR · Post Post #3389 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:53 am

In post 3387, Raskolnikov wrote:I mean, I could see maria lynching gm and trying to get me to lynch creature over her next day. She would then win a 3p if clouds there.
You see 3 options of maria gm me today but if the more likely choice is between maria gm I can see why she'd bus that slot over get lynched herself especially with how gm has played.
And if she's scum she knows that turn today probably alienates me somewhat in future if I don't end up lynched.

I've also been wondering if the no-care game from gm would fit traitor as she did seem entirely uninterested and apathetic.

You underestimate cloud he's bliz wagon'd me so many times I think it's Creature/Fliz and Creature is gonna go for me the next day after Fliz flips (or go for me today) having catch up is good on a pure data bases
I don't know how you guys are going like "oh this is how ___ is gonna play but it seems clearish to me

Creature · Post Post #3390 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:58 am

In post 3389, MariaR wrote:Creature is gonna go for me the next day after Fliz flips

Yeah, I'll go after who I think it's most likely scum.

Creature · Post Post #3391 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:59 am

I don't really want to pay attention to association tells.

MariaR · Post Post #3392 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:02 am

In post 3390, Creature wrote:
In post 3389, MariaR wrote:Creature is gonna go for me the next day after Fliz flips
Yeah, I'll go after who I think it's most likely scum.

From what I can tell given your pattern today that's me because a "me and gm team makes the most sense"
although the way you're acting you tr rask for the same reason I do and then there's me/jaack

BlackVoid · Post Post #3393 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:10 am

In post 3384, Creature wrote:Damn when someone scumslips and someone else says it can only be scum with me.

"Scumslip" is a bit of an exaggeration. Did he "slip" the same way Hoopla did? Which, by the way I have no idea what you were referring to when you said Hoopla scumslipped.

Creature might actually be the most optimal lynch today.

BlackVoid · Post Post #3394 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:14 am

It's either Creature/GM, Creature/Rask, or Creature/MariaR.

GM/Rask is a stretch. A big one. Rask/MariaR doesn't really fit because of lots of interactions. GM/MariaR doesn't fit either. They were too in-sync. They were the only two players besides Cloud who pushed me as scum. They along with Sotty7 went for BBT. I could see one of them as scum but not both. So, we lynch Creature. Figure this out tomorrow.

MariaR · Post Post #3395 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:15 am

What got you to this sudden reveal?

BlackVoid · Post Post #3396 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:15 am

So, MariaR - if you really think it's Creature and GM, you shouldn't have a problem joining me here.

VOTE: Creature

MariaR · Post Post #3397 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:16 am

Oh I don't at all I'm just very curious
VOTE: Creature

BlackVoid · Post Post #3398 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:18 am

In post 3395, MariaR wrote:What got you to this sudden reveal?

Even if GM is scum, I don't see who could be a partner outside of Creature. But I could see Creature with anyone really. That was the tipping point. I still don't entirely trust Rask. It's possible he's protecting Creature. I've also talked about how I think you could be a possible Creature partner. He's the safest lynch and then we can re-analyse tomorrow.

Creature · Post Post #3399 (ISO) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:18 am

Okay, apparently I'm a big question anyway, because I fit in most teams.