STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER


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Post Post #11400 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:01 pm

Post by farside22 »

In post 11393, Randomnamechange wrote:
In post 11389, farside22 wrote:Have the claimed vig that no one else claimed vig a50.
Tell me how tfl shot and a second player dies = tfl scum?
If you can point to a game where scum have 2 Kill abilities more then one time per game that does not include the dating game mafia game I created I would listen.
Other then that you have 2 players, one confirmed scum and one saving there scum buddy currently.
You will have to convince me tfl scum makes srnse.
YCBA 4
Never mind I found the game.


I will note for those actually town.
Titus claimed her ability was the same as cakez and cakez was scum.
Dgb claimed an ability like mine and she was scum.
A50 is currently trying to claim something that not chara had as an ability.
I'm 99% sure with those stats he's scum.
the flailing from him just moves it way over the edge of no return.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
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Post Post #11401 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:58 pm

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

what does not make sense is , if I might be a danger either have the Gems bubble me or ask me not to vig,,,,,,, I have followed the town plan if its agreed upon. There is no reason to lynch me over confirm scum......I would say maybe Almsost did not think of these options but That would lessen the credit I give to Almost abilities at Mafia,
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Post Post #11402 (ISO) » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:14 pm

Post by farside22 »

In post 11401, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:what does not make sense is , if I might be a danger either have the Gems bubble me or ask me not to vig,,,,,,, I have followed the town plan if its agreed upon. There is no reason to lynch me over confirm scum......I would say maybe Almsost did not think of these options but That would lessen the credit I give to Almost abilities at Mafia,
Pretty sure a50 is scum saving his scum buddy.
According to random, rr is trying to say there are 7 scum this game.
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Post Post #11403 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:04 am

Post by Almost50 »

farside is starting to sound like a broken record. She'd cornered, and her cover is blown away. She needs to get rid of both myself and RR now.

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Post Post #11404 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:44 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So back from V/LA.

This section is devoted to Almost.

The biggest concern I have is that your “3 scum are alive” panic position is that you think the three scum are Shadow – kraska – farside. I think you specifically have avoided acknowledging my position on farside so I will restate it.

There is no real way that farside is a 3rd party who can join scum with the powers that have been proven in thread. Her ability to mass vote (up to half the needed lynch threshold) if it were to be combined with Skybird’s Double Vote and DGB’s ability to effectively Double Vote would be so powerful that Town basically could not compete. Hell – at a lynch threshold of 8 votes to lynch (15 or 14 alive) it would allow all three to strongarm a lynch. 3 players only needed to get a lynch with 14 to 15 alive? That’s a ludicrous amount of vote power in the hands of scum. Makes much more sense as a balance for scum’s voting powers or as a survival ability for a 3rd party.

Furthermore the only player who makes sense as a Leftover who could join with scum (thus making 7 total scum) is Lapis. And farside isn’t Lapis .. that much I’m sure of. I’ve parsed out who Lapis is.

So all of your plans are predicated on a 3 person team that doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
In post 11316, Almost50 wrote:I'd like to emphasize on this statement. Scum!TFL could NOT have shot anyone last night because of the ongoing event. I would lynch him over conf.Scum!Shadow at this point (and I DO have a reason for it too).
Since this has been proven wrong it looks very much like desperation …
In post 11316, Almost50 wrote:So, while Shadow IS confirmed Scum, TFL will have a GUARANTEED SHOT tonight. (Note that the event's effect ends by today's Exposition, so the Scum kill is not prevented by it anymore on the Climax, while the effect from the alliance with me guarantees the shot WILL go through).
Any worries about TFL having a shot tonight stem from TFL as scum. I have yet to see anything that in my mind solidifies that nearly enough to consider not lynching claimed scum.
In post 11318, Almost50 wrote:I beg to differ here. Otherwise, what was the point from activating that event (I trust either you or MOI activated it, and I trust it was for an elaborate reason).
What elaborate reason do you think needs to exist for me (it was me, btw) to activate an event that blocks the Mafia kill and prevents them from triggering events until Climax tonight?

BTW – I disagree with the conclusion of pretty strongly. Given how mechanically complex this game is to decide outright that “This means he’s not reading and is scum” is such a leap I am having a hard time seeing why you think that. I don’t believe for a second your Alliance ability as mentioned has to mean what you think it means and furthermore that no other abilities in the game could counter it.

Also don’t see any reason for your certainty in that there are three scum alive.
In post 11345, Almost50 wrote:Did you read the part about BUBBLING Shadow?
Why are you assuming that I (and Random), the player who controls that ability, doesn’t know more about how it works than you? Because you don’t and every part of your posting that is pinned to the fact you do is suspect to me.
In post 11367, Almost50 wrote:Contradictions contradictions. Scum caught are being desperate to the limit, bu the town is so adamant to throw away a game we already have in hand.
This ranges into an Appeal to Fear given that Town by definition isn’t trying to throw away the game by lynching someone you admit is scum …

Finally I find it suspect that Almost appears to have dodged answering my question in .

--
In post 11293, Reasonably Rational wrote:Can you explain your position regarding farside, given that you said yesterday that you understood my concerns?
My position is that worst case farside is 3rd party who has a completely independent wincon from scum. And as long as we keep the Mafia’s numbers low she can’t decide to throw in with them for fear of being turbo lynched the next day. I don’t see the point of actively fueling her point totals (which was your plan yesterday IIRC) when you fear that she could win the whole things ala whatever game it was where a 3rd party player did such.
In post 11333, Reasonably Rational wrote:MoI, A50 says you should be aware of this as well?
Yeah, our PT mentions that. I don’t think it is really relevant to my reads as such.

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Post Post #11405 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 7:45 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 11386, farside22 wrote:As for alliances.
Moi/random
Tfl/far
Grapes/mastin
Rr/a50
Does anyone object to these? If so now is the time to say your piece. I'm going to be voting Shadow soon.
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Post Post #11406 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:46 am

Post by Reasonably Rational »

@MoI: Can you explain why we wouldn't shoot Farside tonight then, using fuzzys empowered shot? It's not a matter of her throwing in with scum for vote power, it's a matter of her potentially just winning.

The idea yesterday was to force farside to reach her claimed win con while there were possibly still scum around(that is, at day start today) so that way if her win con was contingent upon scum being gone(which I would think it would have to be if it ended the game outright, which is our concern), that wouldn't be the case, so if she's lying we'd simply know today instead if having to speculate. Since at this point it's unlikely we can arrange that circumstance before we finish off all the scum, it's far safer to simply remove her.

I know you and Fuzzy have basically accepted that Farside is 3p, it's just you both refuse to consider that WE COULD LOSE EVEN WITH A MAJORITY if we don't act to prevent it.

I mean, consider the setup and the large number of impossible to lynch slots.

We NEED another threat for this game to be even remotely close to balanced.

I object to tfl and far because I think far should be shot, and fuzzy is less likely to do so if his alliance hinges upon him not shooting far. ^^

Also, make sure you or I hammer etc etc, so don't put him at L-1 until you and I are both here and able to go l-1 to hammer with no delay.
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Post Post #11407 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:00 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:The biggest concern I have is that your “3 scum are alive” panic position is that you think the three scum are Shadow – kraska – farside. I think you specifically have avoided acknowledging my position on farside so I will restate it.
Before I continue reading I'd like to point out kraska already got lynched and lipped Town. It was Fuzzy whom I accused of being scum.

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Post Post #11408 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:01 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:There is no real way that farside is a 3rd party who can join scum with the powers that have been proven in thread. Her ability to mass vote (up to half the needed lynch threshold) if it were to be combined with Skybird’s Double Vote and DGB’s ability to effectively Double Vote would be so powerful that Town basically could not compete.
Maybe that's why the scum team had limited/conditional kills all through the game?

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Post Post #11409 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:08 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Hell – at a lynch threshold of 8 votes to lynch (15 or 14 alive) it would allow all three to strongarm a lynch. 3 players only needed to get a lynch with 14 to 15 alive? That’s a ludicrous amount of vote power in the hands of scum. Makes much more sense as a balance for scum’s voting powers or as a survival ability for a 3rd party.
I don't care how it "looks like". I'm only concerned about the "real thing" which we will never know for sure before the game is over. The last Varsoon game I was in it took a SINGLE PLAYER (who controlled a dummy slot) to single handedly end the game with 11 players alive. So, if ONE can do it with 11 alive I think it absolutely possible for 3 to do it with 15 alive.

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Post Post #11410 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:09 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 11408, Almost50 wrote:Maybe that's why the scum team had limited/conditional kills all through the game?
Um how do you know scum have "limited or conditional kills" again? Given the Cluster and Detonation Events that occured on top of normal Mafia kills I would certainly not characterize the scum team's kill options as limited.
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Post Post #11411 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:10 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Furthermore the only player who makes sense as a Leftover who could join with scum (thus making 7 total scum) is Lapis. And farside isn’t Lapis .. that much I’m sure of. I’ve parsed out who Lapis is.
So. now we're flavour speccing too?

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Post Post #11412 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:14 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 11411, Almost50 wrote:
In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Furthermore the only player who makes sense as a Leftover who could join with scum (thus making 7 total scum) is Lapis. And farside isn’t Lapis .. that much I’m sure of. I’ve parsed out who Lapis is.
So. now we're flavour speccing too?
Yup. Show me any reason to not? I know who Lapis is. Fact. I know it is not Farside. Fact. Xk was Peridot who joined with Town. Fact. The only person with 3 flipped Rubies and Traitor Jasper who makes any sense as possibly joining with them is Lapis. Very reasonable conclusion.

Frankly this sort of response is what I expect from scum. Ignore things with handwaving (flavor spec-ing in this case) when they undermine the position you have taken.

Still waiting to see where that missing kill went. Or is that what you are trying to accomplish with your "limited kill" comment?
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Post Post #11413 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:19 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Any worries about TFL having a shot tonight stem from TFL as scum. I have yet to see anything that in my mind solidifies that nearly enough to consider not lynching claimed scum.
With all due respect I'm also a full entity myself and thus entitled to have my own opinions. Thank you. What you "see" is not necessarily what I see. What goes into your mind isn't the same train of thoughts that goes into mine.

Btw, and this is a general notice: As of now I'm going to treat everyone the same way they act. I'm going to be extremely stubborn with those who act stubborn themselves. I'm going to be reasonable with those who are reasonable, and I'm never going to listen to those who refuse to listen to others (and I'm not talking about just this game).

P-edit:

I'll repond to your newer posts when I get to them.

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Post Post #11414 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:26 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:What elaborate reason do you think needs to exist for me (it was me, btw) to activate an event that blocks the Mafia kill and prevents them from triggering events until Climax tonight?
Just THAT. Prevent the kill and catch someone who claimed to be a Town vig choosing to give a pass on an shot that was expiring and getting refunded today.

I exclaimed long ago about my own ability, and Varsoon said it gets refunded at the start of the Season Finale. However, being a 1-shot ability I could not have 2 shots at the same time. In other words I had to use my 1st shot on N3 because it would have expired at the start of Exposition 4, so that I only have 1-shot at the start of E4 (Season Finale 1). That's why I declared I had "nothing to forfeit" and opted to ally with RR on E3, so the damage to town would be minimized (if I recall correct RR had nothing to forfeit as well, so the bonus point from both alliance members willingly opting not to use an active ability wasn't there to begin with).

My point is "I thought" that was some clever trick you pulled out of your sleeve to verify whether TFL was Town Vig or not. Obviously, I was dead wrong.

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Post Post #11415 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:29 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Finally I find it suspect that Almost appears to have dodged answering my question in 11373.
I don't have all the answers, and neither do you. I see what I see, and say what I think. You don't approve. Fine. End of.

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Post Post #11416 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:32 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11404, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Yeah, our PT mentions that. I don’t think it is really relevant to my reads as such.
This is really a BRILIANT stance. I'm amazed. So a MOD CONFIRMED FACT isn't really relevant, but setup speculation is the way to go. I should remember that.

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Post Post #11417 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:37 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 11410, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 11408, Almost50 wrote:Maybe that's why the scum team had limited/conditional kills all through the game?
Um how do you know scum have "limited or conditional kills" again? Given the Cluster and Detonation Events that occured on top of normal Mafia kills I would certainly not characterize the scum team's kill options as limited.
Because that's how the game went. I didn't see a regular NK every night. Event kills ARE conditional kills. The Cluster for instance could have been stopped with more points or could've been more damaging if it wasn't somehow contained. That C.O.N.D.I.T.I.O.N.A.L in my book.

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Post Post #11418 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:40 am

Post by Almost50 »

@MoI:

*Sigh* Frankly, I'm done talking to you. You do as you wish.

@TFL:

I changed my mind. I'm now BEGGING YOU to shoot me tonight. I don't want to play in this game anymore and I have never replaced out or walked away from a game I signed to, so release from my contract me please.

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Post Post #11419 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:48 am

Post by TheFuzzylogic99 »

I am so confused at this point...I was sure A50 was scum but I am not so sure anymore,

RR
I am not shooting Far...there is no guarantee my shot would kill her given her abilities. If you want her dead than bring her up to lynch tomorrow.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
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Post Post #11420 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:03 am

Post by Reasonably Rational »

In post 11419, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:I am so confused at this point...I was sure A50 was scum but I am not so sure anymore,

RR
I am not shooting Far...there is no guarantee my shot would kill her given her abilities. If you want her dead than bring her up to lynch tomorrow.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
my brain hurts really bad right now
I already pointed out multiple times that today is the day to lynch Farside. Both MoI and we possess the ability to ensure she doesn't escape the lynch. We cannot do that except on the finale, and that's today.

We've done all that we can, and then some, to warn of the danger. At this point, unless people wake up or you realize we're right, we pass beyond the ability to do anything about it and have to bet the game that Farside's absurd claims are true. I would bet my left nut, as you know, that her claims are not true. I guess we'll see.

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Post Post #11421 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:07 am

Post by Reasonably Rational »

In post 11419, TheFuzzylogic99 wrote:I am so confused at this point...I was sure A50 was scum but I am not so sure anymore,

RR
I am not shooting Far...there is no guarantee my shot would kill her given her abilities. If you want her dead than bring her up to lynch tomorrow.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
my brain hurts really bad right now
Fuzzy, everyone has their head so incredibly far up their ass that THEY WILL NOT LYNCH HER EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE THINKS SHE'S A FUCKING THIRD PARTY.

Just ask Varsoon this question: "If I were roleblocked tonight, would my kill still occur due to my alliance with A50?" She specified that she ROLEBLOCKS people, not that she has any protective passive. That means if a roleblock wouldn't stop you, your action will succeed. If your action still fails, guess what? WE CAUGHT HER IN ANOTHER LIE AND EVERYONE ELSE CAN STOP BEING STUBBORN AND JUST LYNCH HER.

It's really really really fucking easy man. And what the fuck is up with asking the town to vote for who you should shoot, and then refusing to shoot someone who(by my count) 3! people have said we need to kill??

-Cerb

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Post Post #11422 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:22 am

Post by grapes »

I'm right there with you fuzzy.
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Post Post #11423 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:31 am

Post by grapes »

In post 11394, Randomnamechange wrote:RR's plans yesterday were pretty much all run by me to check the logic. Magna wasn't involved yesterday except from in the game thread.
We really fucked up the communication there man. I had a case on shadow. I'll never get playing safe.

Let's start to put our differences aside and figure this out together.
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Post Post #11424 (ISO) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:36 am

Post by grapes »

In post 11397, farside22 wrote:Here is the million dollar question.
If tfl vig isn't garenteed and he shots me and it fails how many people will lynch tfl over the player trying to save scum today?
I have to ask because from my POV everyone has some moon logic vision that just looks devoid of actually lynching scum.
That's the thing we only want him to shoot you if it's gonna be a guaranteed thing.

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