Mini 532: Yaw's Split Open Mafia: (Game over)

[Off the Mark]

I would also like to know what kabenon meant by post 339. Quite confusing. Who is confirmed scum and why?

[Off the Mark]

I've already expressed my thoughts of OTM, but he is at -2, and I do not wish to put him at -1 yet. I would never dream of making fun of a purple kitty... too frightening. If he says nothing to make me change my mind, I will be voting for him.

Strange, I've addressed everything that has been brought up against me, and have seen no rebuttal from you, but you still feel the same about me. What could possibly change your mind at this point?

I'm not even sure what the case is against me at this point. I said some stuff without offering solid evidence at the time for my assertions - ok, guilty as charged, and I have made up for this, I think. Other than that, I seem to be scummy by default, and I think a big part of this is because my wagon is being helped along by scum. Panzer and SensFan, I'm looking in your direction here.

[Drunken Piper]

4 pages I need to read,
so that I might get up to speed.

Mainly because I don't consider my logic to be faulty.

I guess I'm confused about why you'd feel the RB was a danger to the town if it was on a townie.

Also,

FOS Korlash

for giving the scum an idea they may not have thought of should they happen to have the reopener or the switcher.

If he was scum, why would he mention to mafia in thread,
When he could just tell them when we all have gone to bed?

Anyway, back to the game... I have a list of players I trust at this point and players I am still not sure about. I'll share so we can see who agrees and who thinks I'm off my rocker:

Trust:
Phate
Korlash
kabenon (yes I know I suspected him, he's changed my mind)
Holy
SensFan
Drunken Piper

This might be personal thoughts, or feelings from the bust,
I question motivations behind people who post lists of who they trust.
Especially when they were not requested.
OTM why post them, for these answers need to be digested?

Oh yeah, I forgot about that game. Well, I wasn't completely acting like a townie there either, was I? Is that all you got as far as metareasons go? I am acting "between" a survivor and a godfather? Not sure how that even works... but anyway... I play a little differently in almost all my games. It depends on the other people I'm playing with, how much I'm suspected, experience level of the players, etc.

For my own curiosity, please define what it is to play townie.
Then if you can describe how you are playing, you get a brownie.

I really don't like it when people make comments like "I really think one of these two is scum and we should get rid of one of them asap." Its too easy for scum to pull that stuff and set up two townies who happen to be disagreeing for lynching. Being that the two in question seem to be two of our more prolific posters in here, it would also cripple discussion.

FOS Thanatos

I agree, I have to admit,
So an

unvote

you get.

I'm here, sorry for my absense.

OTM has been looking very bad recently, most notably where (As mentionned) he sets up a possible excuse for a Phate mis-lynch and in post 307 where he admits that his playstyle changes based on many factors, including suspicion level. This looks to me like he wants to be able to (hopefully) come out ok of this debate, then lurk later, pointing to 307 as "proof" that he switches when he is not suspicious.

Unvote, Vote: OTM

this smells of someone looking for a reason to vote,
look townish, and disappear again with little note.
Funny he mentions lurking while providing so little.
Maybe he own play he needs to review, before he attempts to belittle.

Thoughts on OTM are nothing new or gigantic.
His current posts and votes seem frantic.
But this does not put him in a scummy hue,
Many act this way while sitting at –2.
However, his accusations seem like a deflection.
Versus someone moving toward a scum hunting direction.

[Off the Mark]

This might be personal thoughts, or feelings from the bust,
I question motivations behind people who post lists of who they trust.
Especially when they were not requested.
OTM why post them, for these answers need to be digested?

I find trust lists - especially the reactions to trust lists, can be very useful in figuring out alignments. Also, if I do get lynched, it will be a useful reference, since I will be confirmed town if I die.

[Off the Mark]

However, his accusations seem like a deflection.
Versus someone moving toward a scum hunting direction.

How so? I am voting for Panzer because I am convinced he is scum. Look at these posts from our other game, where we were scum together: (deathsauce was a townie... I pushed his lynch, Panzer supported it)

I'm confused. Why haven't we lynched Death Sauce?

Umm Blight, stop while you're ahead please. I still am standing by my one liner. "Why haven't we lynched Deathsauce yet?" Did I miss that in my read? I think at this point we're just talking in circles.

Why hasn't Deathsauce been lynched yet? I'm still wait for an answer. Seriously.

[Off the Mark]

Forgot to compare it to this game. Here is his post in this game:

Wow, OTM still only has 3 votes? why?

Exact same irreverant style to push the lynch of a townie.

[PJ.]

OTM, I do that in all my games. It's cause I have lost interest.

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
Off the Mark (5): Panzerjager, Phate, Thantos, SensFan, Zhao
Zhao (1): Holy
Phate (1): Korlash

Not Voting (3): kabenon007, QuickBen, Jex, Off the Mark, DrunkenPiper

With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch.

[Phate]

You mean irrelevant, not irreverent. Irrelevant means "not pertaining to any specific topic", while irreverent means "disrespectful".

Judging by the one game I've played with Panzer before (he was town, I was scum, we NK'd him N1), that's just his playstyle.

[Drunken Piper]

This might be personal thoughts, or feelings from the bust,
I question motivations behind people who post lists of who they trust.
Especially when they were not requested.
OTM why post them, for these answers need to be digested?

I find trust lists - especially the reactions to trust lists, can be very useful in figuring out alignments. Also, if I do get lynched, it will be a useful reference, since I will be confirmed town if I die.

How will it be useful at all.
You yourself have changed your mind, if I recall.

Also, if you are scum, it is full of lies.
If you are town, it is the perspective from your eyes.

What did you judge from including this list.
So far you referencing people’s reaction, does not exist.

OTM, I do that in all my games. It's cause I have lost interest.

that might be true and that might be so.
But can you provide links when you made similar statements being town pro?

[Drunken Piper]

Vote Count:
Off the Mark (5): Panzerjager, Phate, Thantos, SensFan, Zhao
Zhao (1): Holy
Phate (1): Korlash
QuickBen (1): DrunkenPiper

Not Voting (3): kabenon007, QuickBen, Jex, Off the Mark

With 12 alive it is 7 to lynch.

(yawn)

I agree, I have to admit,
So an

unvote

you get.

[PJ.]

No, I refuse to find the links, if they matter to you so much, you can look through my 1221 game post to find one.

[Jex]

These are my thoughts as I did a complete read through. Many have been brought up, but this is what I found as I read.

Offthemark: doesn't seem to add much more than a few votes to the entire debate of the plan. His comments tend to come out of nowhere and have nothing to do with the current discussion. For example, his post 247 throws an poorly explained vote on to Zhao, but he doesn't add anything to the roleblocker discussion that is happening around him. Simple one liner to seem active. Also, his list of trusted players is awfully large for a day 1. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that everyone is guilty until proven innocent in a game of mafia. However, OTM points out the 3 with the least amount of posts as scummy, while trusting everyone else. His large post 273 (the first to me that has real content) simply states "I trust everyone that is talking." This big post doesn't come until people start throwing suspicion on him. Does he have something to prove? Also, he seems to throw his vote around a lot. He jumped from wagon to wagon in the early game. Now, he states how strongly he feels that Thanatos is scum, yet suddenly switches to sensfan with a less than satisfactory reason.

drunken piper: comes out as a townie even though korlash has already done that. Why the need to say you are powerless?

Thanatos: post 283 vote jumping to OTM irks me. I don't understand why the sudden change of vote simply because phate jumped on the wagon. In post 308 he claims that he doesn't trust phate or OTM. He states that either one is scum or both for reasons unstated.

panzer: I really don't know what to think of. I thought his inactivity was due to recently replacing, but I don't understand the point of some of his recent posts. I don't believe that anyone can metagame based off of one game as scum. In order to truly find someones scum tells you have to see many games that they've played on both sides, not just one game. I don't like the panzer vs OTM "please look at our past game to see proof"arguments. We should have to work to prove you are innocent, that's your job as a player.

People I see as somewhat scummy:
Offthemark
Thanatos
Panzer
DrunkenPiper

Now that I've reread the whole thread, I want to go back and look at the individuals listed above. For now...I can't read anymore

[Korlash]

well... Beign a Monday time is short on my end... But who knows right...

I would like to hear more from Phate and Panzer on the subject of OTM as they have not seemed to contribute much lately or at least not since the last vote. I hate a bandwagon where we have two active lurkers on it.

Case in point... the last two pages have all been:

Panzer: why is OTM only at 3votes?
Phate: *Worthless emote post*
Phate: Are you just spamming? (I laughed at this one)
Phate: Even you?... (BTW who was this directed at anyways? i cannot see it in Holy's or Kabenon's posts...)
Panzer: Something about play style
Phate: Defends Panzer (Sorta)

So... I don;t see how you guys expect to convince the rest of us with your not doing shit about your case, while at the same time OTM is at least appearing to give his defense... badly most times... but I take badly over none at all anyway.

So yeah... Shot version: Phate is still scum. Panzer good candidate for partner. Bank on it? no... Think about it? Yup...

[Off the Mark]

No, Phate, I meant irreverant. "disrectful" is a tad strong, but basically, yeah, he acts like he doesn't care at all about the game, thus: "irreverant". "Irrelevant" doesn't fit at all, actually.

[Off the Mark]

bah, "disrespectful" not "disrectful". Miserable typing by me. So disrectful.

[Phate]

How could you be so sure? Even I can't really tell whether OTM is townie or scum.

Korlash, I think it's mildly hypocritical for YOU to get on MY back about worthless emote posts.

pwn't

And kabenon posted the following:

OMG confirmed scum! Lynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynchlynch

*blinks at blinker*
You crackin' wise, hopscotch?

I don't think it's unreasonable to wtf him. (Yes, wtf is now a verb.)

I'm still on OTM because I still think he's scummy. My main reason (he blows like the wind) has not been adequately answered, and indeed, he's still blowing like the wind. First Than, then SensFan.

Fixed a tag.

[Korlash]

First than, then sensfan what?

Secondly, I could care less about myself or Kabenon as mine and his votes are not exactly needing in the "reasons or explanations" department ATM. I think yours and Panzer's are.

In fact... I think if you honestly felt OTM scummy *And were town yourself* you would not jsut sit back and ride the wagon. You would actually push a case

constantly

.

Based on this I can safely assume both Zhao and Kabenon are either Town or smart scum. And I can safely think the opposite of yourself and panzer.

As for Sens and Than I have not looked into them yet. Only working on two at a time here...

If I remember correctly Sens doesn't post all that much So a small lack of content is... *shrugs* acceptable..ish...

You, who post at least if not more then myself, damn well better be able to sum up your case in more then 1.5 lines... *coughs* which you can't apparently...

Also...

I don't think it's unreasonable to wtf him. (Yes, wtf is now a verb.)

Are you unable to WTF someone and post content regarding the lynch candidate all in one post? I mean you put so much effort into the so called "Pro-town" plan of yours yet seem so unversed in OTM's lynch.... as of late that is...

And no, I am not saying this plan is not pro-town, I am saying just cause you thought of it does not mean you yourself are pro-town. In fact, it seems a very good way for scum to out the unpowered and thus take the powered out earlier.

So... yeah... Everyone let's lynch Phate instead ok? =D

[Phate]

Korlash, I'm currently playing in nine mafia games (was ten, but one just finished), three chess games (was four, but one just finished), and a mishmash game.
I'm the administrator of my own forum-based roleplaying board.
I'm a moderator on another roleplaying board.
I'm a competetive tournament M:tG player, working on getting my next judge level.
I'm maintaining a 4.2 at school.
I'm studying for my finals next week.
I'm learning C++ and messing around with Java applets.

And yet I still have never flaked or needed replacement for any reason. This game is probably the closest I have ever come to lurking in my life.
Have you considered the possibility that I'm just

busy?

Honestly, I think the OTMlynch will happen even if I don't push it. Every post he makes looks scummier than the last.

As soon as I started applying pressure, he voted Than. Shortly after, he voted SensFan. He's still blowing like the wind.

How do you make the immensely hypocritical assumption that it's not ok for me to lag behind in posting (

WHILE STILL POSTING MUCH MORE THAN SENS, MIGHT I ADD

) but it's perfectly fine for SensFan to post content-free or not at all?

I already made my case against OTM. I was the first one onto his wagon. He has not adequately responded to my points. If you like, I'll go make it again.

[Phate]

Here it is again.

1. OTM agrees a lot, without giving reasons of his own.

2. OTM's vote seems to shift based on popular opinion.

3. His cases on other people are really rather ridiculous. I'd rather not, but if you want me to, I'll expound on this.

4. He's putting me on top of his trusted list without giving an adequate reason, which just looks like buddying up.

5. He moved kabenon straight from suspected to trusted, and still hasn't adequately explained why, in my opinion.

6. As soon as he came under pressure, he started trying to deflect attention to multiple other people in rapid succession.

7. I've made all these accusations before, and he hasn't responded adequately enough to convince me that these aren't justified.


Am I sure he's scum? No. But he's the scummiest in the game right now, and I'd support his lynch.

[Korlash]

Hey I know a thing or two about being busy... Doesn't change the fact your playing this bandwagon scummy.

As for the Sens thing what don't you get? You post at least 5+ times more then he does. You should have at least 5+ more then him to say about why OTM should be lynched, yet you don't.

I already made my case against OTM. I was the first one onto his wagon. He has not adequately responded to my points. If you like, I'll go make it again.

that would be a start, a pointless start but one none the less. I am talking more about he current issues. I believe Zhao made a few cool comments even I could not refute. OTM has made a good 6ish posts in the last two pages. Anything to comment on there? How about new info that could convince the fence sitters? Being first on the wagon means crap. I fact... seeing as how I believe the wagon to be scum run, it makes you even more likely to be scum. Not to mention, if you were the first to vote you damn well should have seen a crap load more than the others on the wagon who followed you.

making one good point against someone is cool. Starting a wagon is cool. Letting the wagon turn into a lynch with no added content is scummy. So the way I see it, I'm trying to help you here. And what do I get? A big "Korlash is a hypocrite" some small text, and no added content what so ever. I hate this OTM wagon. And I will be very sad should he be lynched. Simply because out of everyone on him, only one seems to have any good reasoning at all.

Here it is again.

1. OTM agrees a lot, without giving reasons of his own.

-Good point. But I think You, Panzer, Sens... maybe even Than can b guilty of this at least once or twice this game too... The mere fact it took you hree posts to outline your case after I said something seems like an ok example of this.

2. OTM's vote seems to shift based on popular opinion.

-i could say a couple people on OTM are "Following popular demand" I don;t even want to know exactly how many of you used the excuse "OTM is the scummiest person in the game" without any backing of your own.

3. His cases on other people are really rather ridiculous. I'd rather not, but if you want me to, I'll expound on this.

- I could say the same about a couple things on OTM... Not to mention I know a thing or two about crap cases.. doesn't prove affiliation at all.

4. He's putting me on top of his trusted list without giving an adequate reason, which just looks like buddying up.

- So. He put me second. This has to be the dumbest attack I have ever seen. I mean, when i think of the players in this game my mid automatically thinks of the loudest first. If I made a list I would probably place you first too. Unless we are talking about a town list. You wouldn't be on that one

5. He moved kabenon straight from suspected to trusted, and still hasn't adequately explained why, in my opinion.

- True. His explanations sucked. Yet I did not see you comment on them. You merely say they sucked. If I am wrong please show me. Until then, stop having your first two points apply to you just as much.

6. As soon as he came under pressure, he started trying to deflect attention to multiple other people in rapid succession.

-Show me. I missed it.

7. I've made all these accusations before, and he hasn't responded adequately enough to convince me that these aren't justified.

-Again... show me where you commented on his comments asking for more clarification. Until then I will assume you are merely "following the crowd" in saying his explanations sucked.

Am I sure he's scum? No. But he's the scummiest in the game right now, and I'd support his lynch.

-Sure. Plug your name in there and I could make the same statement.

Green text

= Me >.-

In short... Good points, no support...

[Off the Mark]

Here it is again.

1. OTM agrees a lot, without giving reasons of his own.

Agreeing is not scummy. If I don't post my own reasons, it means I agree with the reasons given.

2. OTM's vote seems to shift based on popular opinion.

Untrue. The only you *think* this happened was in regard to your plan. I supported it, then I questioned it later, when a problem occurred to me. In fact, most of the cases I have pushed have had nothing to do with popular opinion: SensFan, Panzer, Thanatos (later - earlier he was a popular choice) - my reasons for voting them were wholly my own.

3. His cases on other people are really rather ridiculous. I'd rather not, but if you want me to, I'll expound on this.

It's tough to make a good case on Day 1. Your case on me is pretty ridiculous too.

4. He's putting me on top of his trusted list without giving an adequate reason, which just looks like buddying up.

explained - top of list means nothing. This "case" is making it seem less and less like you are using townie-reasoning.

5. He moved kabenon straight from suspected to trusted, and still hasn't adequately explained why, in my opinion.

I explained it several times. Refusing to accept it is just stubbornness.

6. As soon as he came under pressure, he started trying to deflect attention to multiple other people in rapid succession.

No, I was continuing to scumhunt. If I hadn't, people would say all I'm doing is defending myself without looking for scum. I'm still playing the game to the best of my ability despite the mud being slung my way.

7. I've made all these accusations before, and he hasn't responded adequately enough to convince me that these aren't justified.

Bull.

FOS: Phate

[Off the Mark]

EBWOP

Untrue. The only you *think* this happened was in regard to your plan.

That was supposed to say "The only time you *think*..."

[Zhao]

Bull.

FOS: Phate

Seems a few people are falling out of you trusted townie group. Could you provide an updated list to which you generated in 278.

[Korlash]

... Define a few?