Mini #534 - Vegetable Mafia (Game Over!)

[destructor]

Mod: I'm pretty sure my vote's still on Oman.

Well, Northjayhawk's leaving, so my questions for him won't do much anymore. I would point out though, that me calling his vote 'barely random' was a typo. I meant to write 'non-random'. My point stands. He explained it too much for it to be, as he described, "barely non-random'.

soupfly, got anything to say about what's happened in this game so far?

I'm quite happy to go either way with the veggie claim, but worry of the chance of outing power-roles. From the exchange between Phate and thedragonprincess, if we're to believe them, it seems that there

aren't

any duplicate roles, so claiming vanilla townie isn't so easy. But this seems game-breaking, which makes me wonder. If scum have safe claims, this achieves next to nothing for the town, while giving scum some info.

[destructor]

ryan, I asked you a question back on page 8. Can you answer it?

[Patrick]

Votecount

ryan (2) -- Crub, Phate
Crub (1) -- Y
destructor (2) -- Oman, ryan
Phate (2) -- kravhen, thedragonsprincess
kravhen (1) -- gorckat
Oman (1) -- destructor

Not Voting: thinktank, WhoMe?, soupfly
12 alive, 7 to lynch.

[WhoMe?]

Phate even if all vanilla's were lettuces, how the hell would scum have known that. I can't find where the mod posted an example vanilla role pm. So your post about lettuces essentially boils down as scum guiding.

vote Phate

[destructor]

I don't understand what you mean by scum guiding. Can you explain that?

[WhoMe?]

2 scenarios

1. he is a vanilla (lettuce)

he has given scum information about the town set up

2. he is scum worried about the thought of a mass claim and has tried to give a strategy to the other scum. OK a very bad strategy given dragons rebuttal.

Now i lay it out tho, it seems obv that we are looking at scenario 1. I don't like the reveal he has forced, but i have to think he is town, unless we are waaayy into WIFOM territory

unvote

[ryan]

ryan, I asked you a question back on page 8. Can you answer it?

I believe you asked EVERYONE a question on page 8

As for what I think about thinktank, kravhen and Crub? thinktank brings up a great point about the bandwagon on me being scummy as I thought the same thing, I get a pretty pro town vibe from him. Kravhen was pretty quick to vote hop on the first page and his post 42 wasn’t even true (looked like somebody trying to ride the coat tails of somebody else for a reason to vote) Crub’s play has been erratic at best and for now I have neither a pro town or anti town read on him.

[Y]

That totally doesn't help scum at all.

I just surreptiously claimed vanilla townie, and every other vanilla townie will know that I'm a confirmed vanilla townie.

It's a closed setup. That's a fact. That means we don't know what roles there are in the game. Which makes it easy for scum to lie.

Obviously you were wrong about the your first assumption. Can you, please, prove me the other one?

Did you just ruined the scum's safe claim?

FoS: Phate.

[gorckat]

Hey folks! I've been keeping up since around page 4 when I first PM'd Aimee to replace in. I'll need a re-read since I now have a role and know infinitely more than I did before (something versus nothing ).

I'll do my best to answer any questions directed at my predecessor and will post today.

[ryan]

WhoMe?: Can you explain your vote (for reasons that I have to admit made sense to me) and than an unvote and you saying he's a townie just two posts later?

[WhoMe?]

WhoMe?: Can you explain your vote (for reasons that I have to admit made sense to me) and than an unvote and you saying he's a townie just two posts later?

my first thought was that it was scum guiding. I was asked to explain this. When I thought it through more in order to articulate what I meant, I decided that the most sensible explanation was scenario 1 rather than 2, and whilst i think it was an incredibly anti-town move by Phate, I think it was an anti-town move by a townie. If he were scum and had said all vanilla's are lettuce, that would most probably get him lynched then and there, because of the high likelihood of the statement being plain wrong. I now believe that he is indeed a vanilla townie with the role name of lettuce, so i have unvoted. This obviously means that I also believe dragon's claim at this moment of time.

[ryan]

I'm just having a problem with the idea of claiming being brought up so early, feels like scum trying to rolefish and find who to pick off at night

[Phate]

Obviously you were wrong about the your first assumption. Can you, please, prove me the other one?

Note: referring to the following, which is myself answering another question about closed setups.

It's a closed setup. That's a fact. That means we don't know what roles there are in the game. Which makes it easy for scum to lie.

Yes. Scroll up, look at the OP, and observe the fact that the roles are not listed. This makes the game, by definition, a closed setup. What's difficult to understand about this?

Did you just ruined the scum's safe claim?

The scum don't have a safe claim. And if they did, ruining it would be a bad thing because...?

[WhoMe?]

because the only way you could ruin the scum's safe claim would be to know what it was, which would mean u were scum is what he is getting at

[Phate]

I don't get it. The scum don't have a safe claim. If they did, the way I'd know it would be to be a vanilla, in a game where all vanillas have the same rolename. Being scum wouldn't help me at all.

[ryan]

Phate: How do you know what people have and don't have in this game?

[Phate]

Please be more specific, Ryan, as I have no idea what you're referring to.

Do you mean roles? I know that there are vanilla townies, probably protown powerroles, and some form of scum, most likely a Mafia. I know (as does every other vanilla townie, unless princess is scum) that I am a vanilla townie, and that princess is not a protown powerrole.

Do you mean rolenames? I know that we're all named after vegetables, and the town is named after green ones.

[WhoMe?]

I don't get it. The scum don't have a safe claim. If they did, the way I'd know it would be to be a vanilla, in a game where all vanillas have the same rolename. Being scum wouldn't help me at all.

the only way you know the scum don't have a safe claim is if you are scum. You know what, maybe that every vanilla is a lettuce thing really was a huge misuse of a scum safe claim

vote Phate.

[Phate]

WhoMe, I still don't get it. I know scum don't have a safe claim because thedragonprincess claimed vanilla townie with a different rolename. Thus, many vegetables are used, and if a scum claims a particular vegetable, it may well already be taken. That's how I know that scum don't have a safe claim.

Explain again how this makes me scum. Type slow, I don't read fast. =P

[WhoMe?]

a safe claim is when the mod gives the scum information ie there isnt a *named green fruit* in the game so you can use that one.

[Phate]

Oh.

No, that's not what I was talking about at all. I meant that if all the vanillas were lettuce, that would be giving the scum a safe claim... but I also couldn't know that unless I was vanilla.

Now, I repeat, explain to me why this makes me scum.

[WhoMe?]

by the definition of safe claim i explained

only scum (and the mod) know whether or not they have a safe claim. So you knowing this amde you scum. You are claiming that you meant something else, but we are now on your 2nd major slip of the game, so I am not going to remove my vote so easily.

[Phate]

Oh.

No, that's not what I was talking about at all. I meant that if all the vanillas were lettuce, that would be giving the scum a safe claim... but I also couldn't know that unless I was vanilla.

Now, I repeat, explain to me why this makes me scum.

[Y]

I'm not completely sure if Phate is town or scum, but he's definitely a newbie.

Phate, whenever you say you

know

something, it means you have some information. If it isn't something publicly known, than it means you have information we don't.
Since the only players that have information about scum are the bad guys, by telling us that you know something about them that we don't, you're actually saying that you're part of them.

One can argue that he claimed they don't have a safe claim since he doesn't know the term, but I can easily believe that his thoughts were "Safe claim? The mod didn't tell me something like that...".

About the setup, I thought you were saying we have an open setup.

I'll leave my FoS as is while I'm deciding if you're scum, or just an inexperienced newbie.

gorckat, who did you replace?

[gorckat]

gorckat, who did you replace?

Northjayhawk. I just sat down to do my re-read as a player.