Mini 1869- camn's revenge GAME OVER!

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Okay new townbloc

{Nacho, Gin, Mastin, Fate, Prism, Dreal, Cakez, Ari}

Strong as fuck whole shit ^^

Aero, Mono, BTD6, Vax, Jin are all that's left.


Jin is outta here.

So Aero, Mono, BTD6, Vax.

We able to come to a conclusion on BTD6?

{Nacho, Gin, Mastin, Fate, Prism, Dreal, Cakez, Ari}
{BTD6, Vax}
{Aero, Mono, Jin}

[mastina]

shit man we've been jamming for like 8 hours

I know, seems like a shame it has to end.

But, was worth it. <3

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

@Pine Your game was ruined at post 1555

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8748296

So a total of around 450 posts of pure, unadulterated, badass.

[Nachomamma8]

My reads look more like:

{Nacho, Gin, Mastin, Ari}
{Cakez, Drealmer}
{Fate, Prism}
{BTD6, Vax}
{Aero, Mono, Jin}

[Nachomamma8]

with probably Cakez/Drealmer being different tiers if I'm honest with myself (drealmer above, almost want to put him TOP TIER)
if everything falls away
and everything somehow goes to shit
I always have you/mastina/ari

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

I will have to call it here tho Nacho. I have work at 9 in the morning but this was so juicy not to pass up. Like if I ever write in my Wiki, you're being name dropped as an achievement to play with.

Same goes for Mastina who I still am grateful for her teachings and allowing me to flourish in such the manner that I have done just now.

Your reads list is mine but broken down more :p

[Aeronaut]

I wasnt scumreading Gin for a long time this misconception was already cleared up

Yes Aero!town is a new read given you actually posting and some of mastinas vca

I don't see how Mastina's VCA would make you townread me though? She was trying to point out that I was scum in that.

You know, I'd be super down for a Mafiascum D&D sesh. Is that a part of Mish Mash or do I have to make it one?

I think you'd have to make it.
I also think it'd be mega-slow.
Also, I'd love love love LOVE to be a part of it.
I've wanted to be a part of a D&D campaign ever since I heard of D&D, which at this point has to be...oh, at least twelve years ago if not more.

Yet I have zero contacts in real life who'd have this as a possibility, and every time this comes up online, there's zero followthrough, or the method that's chosen is one that involves real-time playing in order to combat the mega-slow nature of internet-based D&D. (I can't do real-time playing.)

On an actual game note: Fuck you, Aero.
You were totally not only Pine's first pick, but also an extraordinarily good one because you're better at convincing and manipulating people than you say you are and you're so damn good at it that in spite of me

knowing

that you were his first pick you're actually making me feel otherwise.

VOTE: Prism.
This, to answer who I would push.
Prism's attitude towards me is something I won't tolerate. Writing me off as useless was cute when it was the RVS. Not so much now, especially when Prism's done fuckall since then. I can understand the idea, in theory, of someone not listening to me in a game. But not so much in this game. Now granted, what said player actually hears may differ. Of the twelve players listening to me, there are twelve different ideas of what I'm actually saying. (I'm counting Pine among them.) BTD6, SirCakez, drealmerz, and Vaxkiller say it's scummy shit, but they've listened. Monokuma has listened to me and wants more. Nacho has concluded I'm town but wrong. Fate has listened but I don't know what he's said.
And so on and so forth.
The point I'm getting at here is that every player in the game has said they are reading my posts and trying to do something with them.
Every player, except Prism.

And Prism has said, "not worth it, gonna assume null, not going to bother to sort, not going to bother to read, not going to do anything there". That callous attitude towards a

very fucking important part of the game

is not something I associate with town. And me saying I'm an important part of the game isn't ego--it's simple objective truth.
I have one of the highest post counts in the game, second only to Gin in fact.
I have one of the largest wagons in the game, second only to the brief L-2 Fate wagon. I am the currently-largest wagon.
This is all objective facts which are 100% accurate

and

relevant no matter what.
For objective facts which may or may not be relevant, you can also add in:
-I have more game history with Pine than any other player here.
-I have significant game history with Nacho.
-I have quite a bit of game history with many other players in this game.
-I am considered by many players to be a very significant player on mafiascum. People think I'm good. People think it so much that they have a higher expectation of me than I am realistically able to deliver.

Those are also all objectively true.
And it doesn't even begin to factor in the subjectivity of my claim to be a very important part of the game.
The simple fact is, Prism is ignoring me, and is either an alt or someone who has mastered the old perception of me that veteran players used to take, to ignore me if for no other reason on policy alone, because surely the words of mastina, the wallposter mastina, the infamous mastina, is someone not worth paying attention to, who says a lot of meaningless shit and nothing of importance. That's the attitude Prism is displaying and that's the attitude old veterans would display to me, but it's NOT the attitude a new player displays to me.

Then you get into what Prism has done.
What

has

Prism done?
Can you answer me even that much?

Prism may have a recent V/LA of some sort in effect, would have to check for how long and starting when and when it ends, but the fact is, prior to that point, what did Prism do? Prism had a strong early start, sure, pushing Gin-N-Tonic. But other than that, they've done basically nothing. And even their Gin push was weaker than some of the other members of the wagon there.

I know, I could be shooting myself in the foot for reneging my early townread there. But if I don't see Prism produce something worthwhile, I'm not going to be so sorrowful about it.

I don't understand any part of this at all; Like you could say Prism's not doing anything, but there's people who are doing a lot less things, like SC or jin, or BTD6, people who are kind of getting by. Or you could say, Prism isn't listening to you, but I don't see a scum motivation there at all. I feel like scum is definitely going to take a stance on you, because otherwise it's shady as fuck.

Choose fate or mastina

I'll make the choice easy on ya.
I don't think there's a risk of me being lynched.
But there's a risk of me being moronically vigged depending on who holds the vig role.
I didn't want to claim in case the scum's role was a roleblocker, but I suppose I'll have to take the risk.

I am a 1-shot masonizer

.
Remember when I said I had an ability which could confirm me as town?
This was it.

If I target town, my target will become a mason with me. Our talk would be night-time only.
If I target scum, my ability will fail.

Of course, I had already softclaimed, and the scum know that I'm town and the town doesn't, so that also contributed to my decision here to claim.
I intend to use my power tonight. Who I use it on, for obvious reasons, I shan't disclose. But obviously, a vig vigging me would feel awfully fucking stupid the morning after when they realize they shot confirmed town, so here ya go. The person I target, should I succeed, will be able to verify my claim D2, making us either scumbuddies, or both town.

Take that into advisement.

This was not a smart move by any means, but there's an upside; we can watch the people on Mastina's wagon try to jump onto someone else before DL; the people with no reads besides mastina especially, will be the easiest to see from that.

I'm a much better lynch than mastina for anyone who wants to switch and make somethign happen before deadline

also willing to flash wagon dreaamrez

..... Why Drealz?

Anyone seriously still wanting to d1 lynch mastina after that claim needs to check themselves.

Imagine we wrote a big long paragraph full of florid metaphors on how ridiculous voting mastina here. There are beautiful metaphors and heart-rending similes and it's just the most beautiful thing you've ever read. It's just so deeply moving that your vote still being on mastina brings you to tears. You enter a prolonged existential crisis, questioning your very identity as a mafia player, because you come to realize just how inane and foolish your play has been. You slump over in your office chair or in your bean bag or whatever sitting apparatus you use to perch yourself in front of a computer and read internet mafia. A haze fills your mind as your vision begins to blur into nothing and your hearing is washed out with a dull yet pervasive ringing. Are you dead? Perhaps. You begin to dream. Your mind takes you on a grandiose journey as you seek to reinvent yourself. For many dream-years, you become an eremite, dedicating yourself only to the study of mafia theory. Your days are filled with pouring over ISOs and conducting VCA in games you spectate. Your nights are sleepless. Eventually, you awake from your dream state and find yourself still in your computer using butt-apparatus. You are weak and hungry and smelly. Though many years passed in the confines of your mind, only three days have passed in the real world. Still, you feel a great deal older. You realize with a start that deadline has not hit. You have been prodded, but not yet replaced. Quickly, you at long last begin down your triumphant path to redemption. You mend the mistakes of your imbecilic past; you unvote mastina.

To be honest, this is not solving the game, this is defending a confirmable-claimed player.

[Nachomamma8]

shit man we've been jamming for like 8 hours

I know, seems like a shame it has to end.

But, was worth it. <3

it was definitely worth it!

[Nachomamma8]

I will have to call it here tho Nacho. I have work at 9 in the morning but this was so juicy not to pass up. Like if I ever write in my Wiki, you're being name dropped as an achievement to play with.

Same goes for Mastina who I still am grateful for her teachings and allowing me to flourish in such the manner that I have done just now.

Your reads list is mine but broken down more :p

this is definitely a mafia memory that I won't forget anytime soon.
have a good night.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Assuming worst case scenario

D0 10v3
D1: 4(6)v3
N1: 4(5)v3
D2: 3(5)v3
N2: 3(4)v3
D3: 2(3)v3
N3: 2(2)v3 =scum win


I highly doubt we won't catch a single scum in this time and this assumes other players aren't confirmed and everything is shit. We got this way in the bag.


Officially, goodnight.

[mastina]

Same goes for Mastina who I still am grateful for her teachings and allowing me to flourish in such the manner that I have done just now.

<3

[mastina]

And while I'm not going to bed, I AM going to mod. Seeya!

[Aeronaut]

All of that and you still are managing to misvote all on your own because of your own hyperinflated ego.

^Another attitude which contributes to the alt accusation.
Old players think I have an ego. (With the occasional exception.)
New players don't. (With the occasional exception.)

I've got less ego than basically any other player in the game. I doubt myself.
Consistently!
Doubt myself. Every step of the way.
I consider my flaws.
I consider the problems.
I consider all of the ways I am probably wrong.
I know that everything I do could be a mistake.
And I absolutely hate myself for it. I loathe how imperfect I am. I see every mistake before it happens, and that means every time I let the mistake happens, it's all the worse because of it. Because seeing a mistake and letting it happen is TEN times worse than not having seen the mistake when it happened in terms of competency.

In no uncertain terms, do I explain this to others.
In no uncertain terms, does the message get across easily to players.
This is the first game I've had with TheRealGin-N-Tonic, drealmerz, BTD6_maker, and Secret Agent Jin, among others.
It is one of my first games with Nahdia.

Yet none of them accuse me of having an ego, because all of them know I don't have one.

If you were an alt, your behavior would make sense.
If you were scum and Pine gave you knowledge of my past (especially by linking to past games), then your behavior would make sense.
But as town I don't see you viewing my posts this way with no prior mastina experience. Because the demeaning attitude you take. Your aura of superiority you try to take over me. The accusations you're making. They don't match reality. Not this game's reality, at the very least.

I'm hoping that you're not still pushing Prism 30 pages later, because this isn't an arguement, this is you making an argument about whether prism is an alt a day before deadline.

I jsut took a look at mastinas read list to see who her town reads were, and realized I have zero myself. If she IS town, I have no idea who I would trust that she might pick.

Ok, so what you're telling me is that you don't have townreads because you've been pushing the same two people the entire game.

Aero, get your ass back on fate, dreal, help me lynch fate and we will lynch mastina tomorrow (because I know her ability is going to fail somehow). BTD6, same goes for you about mastina

Also, why you're still trying to lynch a claimed town-confirmable role is beyond me

Give me your thoughts on my early scum read on SAJ please

01. Secret Agent Jin

Spoiler: The Other Less Cool Jin

Abstract: Beginning scum lean for fence sitting behavior

Post 187, Para 1: My first impression is a subtle distancing with dreal. I mainly don't like the fact that that the way Jin i setting up his reads in a way that they can change quite easily. With Dreal, he says that normally he'd look scummy but he'll null him until he comes under heat. This reads to me as a set up to a bus if the situation arises.

Post 187, Para 3: To continue the idea that formulated in my head, here he said Mastin would have been a town lean but he's willing to not read town and say she's scum. I think again that it's just early game set up to allow him to sway his opinion on a player to follow what the town thinks so he doesn't come under much suspicion.

Post 187, Para 4: To answer Jin's question, he answers it in the prelude to giving the question. Jin specifically stated that he believed what Mastin was doing so the purpose of asking if Mastin's post being genuine or fabricated has me puzzled.

Post 187, Para 5: This paragraph, I don't believe in because Mastin's reasoning is basically focusing on Nacho as the main threat and if he's not scum, then ergo Mastin is scum. That's a dangerous gambit to put oneself as scum and makes her the center of attention. I don't doubt that Mastin can handle being center of attention as scum but she's right in saying that as scum, it's not smart to make yourself prime lynching material.

Post 208: I'm looking at this post as a reason to not give a definitive statement as to what he thinks about Mastin's alignment. You can attempt to come to the conclusion that she's town for saying to lynch her on D2 if she's wrong or push an angle that it's scum making it all for info manipulation latter down the road. Either way, either option has to sound better in your mind and not giving a statement about what you actually think is continuous fence sitting like I've pointed out earlier.

Well, the first part is assuming that Dreal is scum, which very likely isn't true. Part 3/4 are pretty spot on though, mostly the parts about being wishy washy on mastina. I think that it's pretty likely that not only do scum feel like they probably have to give an opinion on a player like mastina in this game, but that Pine probably specifically told them to. The majority of 187 is Jin saying why mastina could be scum, and then why that same reason could make her town, and then after every sentence, he just says "It's all WIFOM anyway", which means there was no reason for this post to exist in the first place.

[Aeronaut]

In that same vein, here's Jin saying *things* about nacho, but they're all in relation to something pine said.

So Pine, like, are you trying to keep him alive by making us think you want him lynched and then we think he is town because you would never say to lynch your own team but you actually did pick him for your team? Or are you trying to get him lynched by saying to lynch him which we think is actually your attempt to save a scum member so we would consider him town and then we actually lynch him because we would say you knew we would townread him for what you did but actually we scumread him and my brain exploded.

What does Pine gain from saying he wants a Nacho lynch actually say? I think Pine knows we would townread Nacho for that so he said it because he actually wants us to scumread Nacho but we are smarter than to fall for Pine's trap and he knows that so he thinks we will townread Nacho when we actually need to scumread nacho.

I quit, i am out, im done, im going to bed.

The only other thing Jin says about nacho is that he doesn't think that he and Mastina are scumbuddies, which is the equivalent to saying there's going to be an NCIS marathon on USA today

[Aeronaut]

You're about as picture-perfect as it gets for scum laying low and keeping their options open

Actually, the player who best fits that description is Secret Agent Jin.
The player who probably second-best fits that description is Aristophanes.
After that...well, you have to divide it up. You're third in terms of keeping options open. BTD6 would probably be third in laying low.
Monokuma is probably fourth in both, though I suppose you could argue third in both with you/BTD6 as fourth in each half. (It's a close race.)

No, I'd say it's definitely Monokuma above all of them in terms of laying low, or at least tied with Jin. Most of Mono's posting, especially lately, have been little commentaries and nothing of any sort of substance. The last thing I remember them doing is having that halfassed thing with Fate, which was entirely based on some pine WIFOM, and Fate not answering something they asked which is weak as fuck. After that, it's been cryptic non-reads and just commentary type posting.

I'll point them out to you when they inevitably show up in the next 20 pages.

There's nothing suspicious about claiming at L-3.

@Mastina. This for example after like ten people already said it.

@Nacho:

I want your reaction to me/mastina. What you think it means for my alignment and why.

So, I don't really get how this sort of question helps you. I've watched you ask similar things a few times now in this game, but I don't see how this is giving you information besides what people think of you, which isn't really that helpful IMO

[Pine]

@Pine Your game was ruined at post 1555

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8748296

So a total of around 450 posts of pure, unadulterated, badass.

Still measuring the drapes in Camn's chalet, bro.

[camn]

For everyone's info- Secret Agent Jin has yet to pick up his prod. If he doesn't over the next 12 hours, I will replace him. If it comes to that, I will extend the deadline for 2 days following his replacement.

[mastina]

I say we save camn the trouble of finding a replacement for the slot and lynch it before it comes to that.

[Aeronaut]

VOTE: TheRealGinNTonic

This is my next scumread after Mastina.

Is Mastina confirmable? I do not know for sure. If Mastina is scum, it would be trivial to claim to recruit a partner. We should wait for a while until Day 2 or 3 (probably 3) and seeing if Mastina dies or not (although scum may gambit by not killing Mastina). For now, I think I will let Mastina live.

Vaxkiller, I may be willing to vote Fate but first can you please give a summary of your case on Fate?

Why is Gin your next scumread, and why would you vote for him and then spend the rest of the post talking about Mastina?

SAJ's ISO is hot garbage so I would compromise there but I'm not letting Fate get away without a fight.

I feel like this post makes a SAJ-Cakez scum team a thousand times more likely.

Hard assumptions: Gin is town; Prism is town.

Can you explain your Gin read again to me? I've had him as null for most of the game, and maybe I just haven't paid enough attention there, but I don't see the same hard obvious town that you do.

HOW IN ALL OF FUCK AM I AT L-3?

Secret Agent Jin, BTD6, Prism and Dreal. Explain your god damn votes

Like, these two posts don't really shine the word town at my face.

[Aeronaut]

I say we save camn the trouble of finding a replacement for the slot and lynch it before it comes to that.

Yeah. I'd like to finish reading the rest of this before we do that though, since YOU STILL CAN'T QUOTE LOCKED THREADS ON THIS SITE

[Aeronaut]

Just to be absolutely clear, here:

Nacho:

TheRealGin-N-Tonic:

Prism:

Fate:

All four of you, we can work together well and assume each other to be town solidly, but we need two others to be town in order to lock down a town win with absolute certainty. My proposed additions are

SirCakez

and

Vaxkiller

.
I would like that to be the winning townbloc. I can explain any of these in particular, especially the top five but also in SirCakez and Vaxkiller for why I think they're not actually scum.

Right now, we're not scumhunting. We're aiming to townhunt, to lock the game down, deny the scum any possible coverage.

SirCakez, Vaxiller:

Fuck your scumreads on me. You'll need to listen. This is the time where we absolutely break Pine. Town synergy right here and now is key. Nacho is feeling it, I'm feeling it, we're building everything up which needs to be built up, and if it ever gets to a gamestate where half of our townbloc is dead, and you were accepted into the townbloc, you need to not utterly fuck things up by voting someone in the townbloc.

I'd really like you to explain to me why Vax is town.

You've talked to me about why you think SC is town, which as far as I remember is based on Pine-Picks. I feel like you've mostly abandoned that thinking at least as far as nacho, so I'd like to hear where your head is at now. Especially if you can tell me what he's done, if anything, to solve the game, I'd love to hear that too.

So Vax and SC, explain those to me.

[Aeronaut]

Got some breakfast, pretty stoked.

Ooonnneeeee is the loneliest number that you'll ever dooooooooo
Twooooooo can be as bad as one, it's the loneliest number since the number oneee

Hey look, more words!

Oh, and:

Aeronaut, Aristophanes, Secret Agent Jin, BTD6_maker, drealmerz, Monokuma:

Right now, you should be focusing on two things:
-Convincing us why you are town. (Yes, this is normally inadvisable, but in this case I'm demanding it: show us why you're town.)
-Tell us which players you don't want to be written off as town and why. If they're named Nacho/Gin/Prism/Fate/mastina, expect to be ignored. Otherwise, I will in fact listen.
-Tell us which players, if not the names you said not to townread, you

would

be comfortable making a townbloc with.

Anything else you do, literally ANYTHING else you do, will be a waste of time and effort. Those three things? Those three things are what you need to do.

Why am I town?

Well for a lot of reasons, but namely, I'm trying to solve the game when a lot of the game isn't.

The easiest, and most effective way to read someone in any game, but especially more active games like this one where it's easier to hide, is simply to ask one question: Are they trying to solve the game? You can add onto this by saying, does anything they do add up? If someone is asking pointless questions, making pointless remarks, stating the obvious, or not following up on anything they do, that's a very good target for pressure, because that pressure will either get a town player to do stuff, or a scum player to crack.


I'll start by telling you exactly who in this game is trying to solve the game:

Prism, Mastina, Nacho, Aristophanes, Drealmerz,

to a degree, and

Gin

to a degree.

All of these players to me are trying to do something to further the gamestate; Everyone but Drealz is doing it decently effectively. Having said that, even though I'm 99% sure drealz is just wrong, he sure as hell is pushing for it and trying to get something out of it. I'm of the opinion that everyone on the Mastina wagon, and most of the people on Fate were/are scum who are just keeping their vote there and doing nothing with it; but when I look at Drealz, that's someone who thinks Mastina is scum. He's been pushing hard for 70 pages.

Curious what happens with him now that Mastina is confirmable, but I guess that's something to watch.

Gin is someone who I don't quite understand the motivations of, especially early game, and as of right now, I don't understand the reads of him as Hardtown (granted I havent gotten to the jam sesh yet). I think his play in the midgame up until when I'm posting this has been more improved in that I can understand why he's saying and doing certain things. Most importantly though, he's pushing his reads a lot harder / more effectively than was so earlier on. Looking back, I think the best example of this is in 1022 where he's pushing the Ari case, and while I didn't really agree with the case, I can see it making sense if you don't know Pisskop. More importantly though, he was pushing for it. Same thing with him bringing back his case on Jin more recently; I think it's easy for scum to sit back and let that happen on it's own naturally, whereas Gin was one who took the initiative and started it.

People I'm in the middle with;

Fate

Fate, I've talked about, but I guess I'll mention again. I don't see a lot of instances where Fate is solving the game. His last couple postings have been basically mirroring stuff I say and not much more, which is kind of worrisome to me, especially from someone of Fate's rep. Having said that, one or two posts of his give me reason to believe that there's a method to his madness, namely 945 where he sort of explains his push on nacho as being to sort him, which seems really believable to me given how baseless it initially seemed to me. 929 and 1341 also seem like a glimpses into what Fate's doing, or at least that he's doing

something,

and has, you know, made conclusions based on those things.

Then he makes posts like 1293 that completely come from left field. I don't know what to do with those posts, besides ask myself whether that's scum motivated, which I'm not really sure about right now if I'm being honest. It's certainly not enough to make me want to lynch him, and I do feel, to an extent, like fate is trying to figure some things out.


People who

aren't

solving the game:

Secret Agent Jin, BTD6_MAKER, Monokuma, SirCakez, Vaxkiller

Jin is pretty self explanatory; he's not here. Normally, I really would despise a lurker lynch, but since we're at that point in the deadline, I feel fine with it as it stands.

Sircakes is similar to a lot of the people below in that I feel like I'm reading the hollow shell of a player. I see questions asked, I see answers given, but none of it adds up into someone who's trying to solve something to me. He's another one of the people who are jumping from fate to mastina, with the added edition of either stifling the discussion, or just complaining about how the discussion sucks without contributing to it. I feel like I've watched him play a really good game before, and maybe it's been awhile, but I usually can talk to him and get him to listen to me. Here, he's just a mindless tunnel-drone that's tunnel-droning on either Mastina or Fate, whichever is easiest.

BTD6_Maker has contributed almost nothing; half of his game was spent arguing with Mastina over the validity of setup spec, and then scumread her for it. He didn't answer either time I asked him why he thought her spec was scum motivated, and has given minimal to no opinions on anything else in the game, besides Gin which was "his next scumread besides Mastina". Basically, him SRing mastina for setup spec is not getting him anywhere with reads, and he's not doing anything to help that.

Vax is the most apt example of what I'm talking about when I mention the scum on the Mastin or fate wagon. For example, his Fate push was another piece of garbage that just further convinces me that Fate is town. Here's what I'm talking about. It's mostly non AI stuff, or stuff that really just straight is objectively false about Fate's gameplay this game. That kind of case exists just to be a case, and not to get any real substance or reaction out of Fate. The same is true with his mastin case. There are no other cases he has; he's very, very clearly just flipping between Fate or Mastina, and not drawing any sort of conclusion out of it.

Mono, as I've said, is coasting. I've never seen Road Kamelot in anything, but I've seen Nahdia be this active engaged player and nah, this isn't that. All we get from that hydra is little commentaries and cryptic reads with nothing really backing anything up, more often than not it's as if they flipped a coin. The most notable thing they've done in the game is the short-lived god-awful fate push that was based either on one luke-warm interaction between fate and pine, and Fate not answering their question or something. Either way, the push was weak and pointless. When I asked them about it, they didn't answer, which means they either just aren't reading the thread very well, or don't care. If they did answer, we all know it'd probs just be some snarky mystical bear bullshit non-answer.

[SirCakez]

You guys posted too much overnight for me to be able to catch up from phone gg

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

jam session, vote Jin

we found the scum group it's Aero, Jin, Mono

[Vaxkiller]

I don't like that he didn't link any "misinformation" and also that he accused Fate of not reading the thread at the same time. Like, the two kind of contradict each other, and there is no evidence provided for the former. He could have had a much more solid case had he put that effort in.

So much shit to catch up on. This one really bothered me tho. THe miss-information is the modified posts I provided.