Mini 518: Underground Mafia, The Nightmare is Over!

[NabakovNabakov]

Vote Count as of Post 1099

Mr. Flay(3):

Adel, Jitsu, jerubbaal

Adel(3):

Oman, Mr. Flay, Setael

Setael(1):

Sudo_Nym

Not Voting (2):

Abstract Actuary, curiouskarmadog

9 alive, 5 will lynch.

[Oman]

I feel the Flay lynch has two scum on it, I suggest someone gets on Adel to stop this.

[Adel]

I'd say Adel is extremely unlikely to be Korlash's partner.

Then I laid a vote on Mr. Flay, and said that I would make a case, and that I would not move my vote.

Adel: Fuck you. Immovable votes are NOT pro-town, and the only thing preventing me from voting you at present is that I feel I have at least two stronger candidates for scum. You're crystallizing again. If you've got a case, state it.

Adel, you're an idiot. This is too patently stupid a ploy for scum, unless you're brass-balling it. (I suppose Adel could be some sort of Mafia Framer, but that seems unlikely given that this is a Normal). Her defense of Jitsu is noted, though I still think Jitsu is town myself.

{snip}

By all means, lynch one of myself, Setael, or Adel today. I don't see any other options will not let this drag out for another day's worth of distraction.

Unvote, Vote: Adel

- let's play. You're being blatantly anti-town.

I do think Adel is ballsy enough to do this as scum (drop Korlash like a bad habit, and peg onto me as "certain scum"), and I cannot continue to excuse her bad play as being purely based in her tendency to crystallize around a specific, misguided theory. Whether or not she's scum (and someone will likely leap on this statement), the unwillingness to ever consider moving her vote for the rest of today is anti-town, and I am willing to punish that. But at this point, I do think she's more than 50% likely to be scum. In that same category presently are jeruubaal and Abstract Actuary (barely). I can give my pro-town list too, but I think I'd rather wait on that until I'm closer to a lynch, to avoid signing anyone's death warrant tonight.

what did I do between posts 1038 and 1077 that made Flay move from voting me because of my anti-town vote on him, to voting me because I am more than 50% likely of being scum?

I see 1038 as him laying the groundwork for a potential hammer of Setael... but it isn't going to come to that. Flay will be lynched and revealed as scum before Setael hangs.

[Adel]

I feel the Flay lynch has two scum on it, I suggest someone gets on Adel to stop this.

If I am the lone non-scum on Flay's wagon, why on earth is your vote on

me

?

[Adel]

EBWOP: Then I laid a vote on Mr. Flay, and said that I would

NOT

make a case, and that I would not move my vote.

[Oman]

I feel the Flay lynch has two scum on it, I suggest someone gets on Adel to stop this.

If I am the lone non-scum on Flay's wagon, why on earth is your vote on

me

?

That was pretty good. I smiled.

[Adel]

uh, ok. and you aren't unvoting because???

[Oman]

Oh, I thought you were joking.

You're one of the scum. Silly Adel, forgetting your Role PM like that.

[Mr. Flay]

Adel, you've completely misinterpreted my Final Circle of lynch candidates. I never said whether or not

I

was willing to hammer Setael, merely that getting rid of one of us will be most instructive. If I get lynched, show up town, and you get lynched tomorrow because of it and show up town, then gods help us all, but your behavior has not been in the town's best interest today. You've essentially argued from authority, made pronouncements with no basis in this game, and refused to admit that you might be wrong. So I'm willing to lynch you before we get to endgame with that bad behavior on board.

Also, what Oman is talking about is for someone to vote you so that you reach 4 votes, knocking me off the lynching block. It's really not that complex, and your (deliberate?) misread is not helping your case any.

[Mr. Flay]

how does you voting for Setael screw up the dead line lynch when you werent voting anyone to begin with?

Well, it's silly, really; so much so that I hesitate to talk about it. However, it lets Setael get up to three votes, which, if given the right series of unvotes and other events on the part of other players, could drop us below the threshold for a deadline lynch. Like I said, it is incredibly unlikely, but it becomes possible. Probably wasn't even worth mentioning, now that I've actually analyzed the thing.

Well, at least that flawless Sudo_Logic is consistent...

But anyway, I don't think that applies in this game:

10: If not enough players are participating or the spectators grow bored, a deadline may be enacted. When a deadline hits, the player with the most votes will be lynched regardless of whether or not they have a majority of votes. If there is a tie at deadline, the first player to have received the most votes will be lynched.

If three of us reach three votes each, i think I'm still the dead man.

[curiouskarmadog]

Let's get lynchin' people. The spectators are becoming bored.

Mod: I think a deadline might be needed now.

That added pressure might be telling.

[Setael]

ckd, is a deadline the only thing that will bump you off your fence?

[curiouskarmadog]

nope, but I think that it will. you currently scared of a deadline?

[curiouskarmadog]

edit:"..I think it will help."

[jerubbaal]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this after the holidays, I'm kind of in a time crunch at work right now.

I really like Adel's 1102. Flay's position has been far from consistent toward Adel in this day, and there appears to be very little to justify such a change in position other than frustration. It's kind of cool to see Adel's whole refusal to present an argument actually working.

Flay was one of the staunchest supporters of Adel's townieness until this incident. Up until now, Flay had absolutely no problem with Adel arguing from authority, but now that it serves his argument, it's the main point against Adel. The logic seems very.... flexible.

[Jitsu]

I don't have a lot of time to explain at the moment, but the recent posts and some rereading have given me some alternate theories and other things to think about. More later tonight.

[Oman]

I'm picking up slight scumvibes from CKD here, mostly the fence sitting that I've seen him do as scum before (Baby too much scum).

If Adel is town, he'll be my first to look at.

[NabakovNabakov]

Let's get lynchin' people. The spectators are becoming bored.

Mod: I think a deadline might be needed now.

That added pressure might be telling.

Agreed.

A deadline is now in effect and will hit two weeks from this date,

Thursday, January 17

, at 9:00 EST. Deadline rules were stated at the beginning of the game and will be replicated here for clarity:

When a deadline hits, the player with the most votes will be lynched regardless of whether or not they have a majority of votes. If there is a tie at deadline, the first player to have received the most votes will be lynched.

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm picking up slight scumvibes from CKD here, mostly the fence sitting that I've seen him do as scum before (Baby too much scum).

If Adel is town, he'll be my first to look at.

Really Oman? I encourage everyone to read this game that Oman is quoting..not only did I do very little fence sitting, I was quite aggressive. Oman where in that game was a fence sitting? here is a little WIFOM to chew on...why do you even know I am fence sitting? Because I told you.

I dont want to vote for either of the vote leaders because I dont really support either of their lynches at the moment and would rather see how people react to a.) the fact I told you I am fence sitting and b.) a deadline.

Case in point, Oman thinks Adel is scum (thus the vote) but puts in the disclaimer that if Adel is town, I will be the first he will look at. Oman why dont you provide the same disclaimer for Flay? This lack of comment sort of makes me want to vote Flay now...but..What if Adel or Flay come up scum, am I scum then too?

...This sounds like you know Adel is town and once she comes up town, you have begun laying the ground work for another lynch based on the fact that I am told you I was fence sitting. Interesting. You also are misrepresenting a game that I was scum to suggest I am scum here...I encourage everyone to read that game and answer the question "did I ever fence sit in that game or was a mostly super aggressive?"

scummy suggestions Oman, scummy suggestions.

vote Oman

I would like everyone to comment on Oman's last post. Interesting to hear other's thoughts...mostly Adel and Flay

[Adel]

I don't like Oman in this game -- but he seems more careless and stupid than scfummy so far. If Flay proves to be scum I'll take a closer look at Oman, but for now I'm not gunning for him.

[Oman]

Really Oman? I encourage everyone to read this game that Oman is quoting..not only did I do very little fence sitting, I was quite aggressive. Oman where in that game was a fence sitting? here is a little WIFOM to chew on...why do you even know I am fence sitting? Because I told you.

Actually you're right. I was thinking of the final two days, more or less. Still the situations aren't comparable.

I withdraw my previous statement on CKD.

These two

If Flay proves to be scum I'll take a closer look at Oman, but for now I'm not gunning for him.

Oman thinks Adel is scum (thus the vote) but puts in the disclaimer that if Adel is town, I will be the first he will look at. Oman why dont you provide the same disclaimer for Flay?

Make me use CKD's logic on Adel: Adel knows Flay is scum as is using it to springboard an attack on me.

Actually, I don't believe that, as Adel and Jer are the scumz.

Oh and CKD:

Oman why dont you provide the same disclaimer for Flay?

Because I don't believe Flay to be town, and if Flay is lynched town, then Adel is still my scumpick. Why would I make it for Flay?

[curiouskarmadog]

wait you dont think Flay is town either?

[Adel]

so Oman thinks that Flay, Jer and I are all scum...

I still think Oman isn't paying attention.

[Jitsu]

What the hell did Oman just say??

[Jitsu]

I am still thinking things through, but I have some questions.

@Adel: At the time of your vote, I can only presume you were really sure that Flay is scum. Then in 1069, you talk about what you will do if Flay comes up innocent, and it makes it seem that you are noticeably less confident. Then in 1102, the confident talk seems to be back. My questions are, how sure are you about Flay's guilt now and why did you seem to hedge a bit in 1069?

@Setael: I would like some information from you. Can you give me a list/summary of the relative scumminess of all the players in the game, excluding yourself?

@Oman: Could you clarify your thoughts on Flay?