Open 57 - Quack Mafia (Game Over) before 545

[TylerJ]

I apologize for the absence.. Wow a full day already! Is this normal for this kind of set up?

[TylerJ]

Ohh by the way, I ended up not sending in a night choice because I was late in finding out the game had started and that the night had past. Sorry. So I wouldn't know if I was a Quack or a Doc.

[TylerJ]

My two cents... A lot of people voted for Oman. Do I hear bandwagon... Sure a few of them were in twilight, but it more than caught my eye.

Also, Oman you should have waited till we voted to see who claims first. If we don't do it that way, we give mafia the opportunity to claim anytime they want. Leaving them the ability to claim first, or the ability to adjust their claims isn't the best idea.

[TylerJ]

would like to mention also that I will be gone through the 27-30th.

[TylerJ]

couldn't the claimed quacks hypothetically be mafia...

[TylerJ]

interesting take on MoS. I'm tempted to vote him, but I djon't want to be rash...

[TylerJ]

I'm back, I'm glad I don't need to get caught up too badly...

[TylerJ]

Sounds like an extremely opportunistic quick-lynch to me.

[TylerJ]

Shaft.ed your assuming we didn't have ignorant townies on the wagn that just didn't think it through, in fact, I myself almost voted too. That would have been a mistake as I can see.

Of course your case is fifty-fifty on MoS. Either he is scum and saw the mistake. Or he was townie that didn't think of all of the options. Considering that he was smart enough to come up with the mechanism, perhaps he would have been able to come up with the flaws as well. I guess only time will tell.

[TylerJ]

I'm sorry Lullubelle but you gave a horribly scummy excuse for voting. So for the time being, I will

FoS: lulubelle

.


And this post definately made MoS look like scum for accusing the bandwagoners.

Who targetted those three? Please claim it now.

You guys are such idiots. Why in hell's blazing inferno did you vote no lynch after poking a gigantic hole in my breaking strategy? Quack docs being unable to kill mafia completely makes that strategy useless, and you idiots ended the day anyways. WTF!?

FoS: people that voted No lynch after that was pointed out

Shaft.ed good point. Considering that most people did die in the bandwagon, the odds are a little better, didn't think of it.
And please explain why that post did not sit right with you. My think about the fifty was more stating the fact that it could in fact be a nulltell, however with the above quote, perhaps not much so. That is also why I said

only time will tell

if he was an ignorant townie or a tricky scum.

[TylerJ]

I hate giving defenses for other people but I think it should be said. Do you think that If MoS was scum that he would post a possible game breaking strategy. Of course the plan had some flaws but it is something to consider. Also, If he was scum, do you think he would lynch someone in the bandwagon pool?

Both of these answeres arent a solid yes or no, but I was just thinking out loud.

[TylerJ]

And that statement coming from another player looks like a partner protecting a scumbuddy

Hence me saying,

I hate giving defenses for other people but I think it should be said...

[TylerJ]

which means we are back to pure scum hunting.

[TylerJ]

Yeah that would be weird. So it seems to me that the best bet would be voting from the quack pool. But when it comes to scumhunting, it would have to be either lullubelle or MoS. That says aboslutely nothing new and gives us little to none zeroing down...

[TylerJ]

I got that already.

[TylerJ]

ahh, sorry.

[TylerJ]

Man, everything I say is disproven. Arghh. Okay, who to vote for...

[TylerJ]

It was a good strateegy till you looked at the numbers. Then it just fell apart.

I'm finding a good place for my vote...

[TylerJ]

Frogive my lack of posting. I am not lurking at all, I have just been gone. Play practice, school and work, plus helping roof a house the other day....

It isn't that I am wishy-washy either. sometimes you will find that I can be rash on my votes or hesitant, I have yet to find the balance.

Also forgive the lack of scumhunting as well, I will attempt to do so tommorow, I'm too exshausted today and just wanted to drop by before I was replaced.

[TylerJ]

Okay, while I do agree about the fact that Mos made some weak ideas, voting for him seems to much of an opportunistic piece.

And the little bit about Tarhalindurs post was a mess of confusion. What I did catch was his really weak reason for voting Shaft.ed.

I am going to do another reread and try to find some more info.

[TylerJ]

Okay, most of the game has been game theory. I couldn't get anything new and started to loose comprehension two pages ago. I should also state that I wont do a night action tonight either for the same reason kuribo isn't.

And Hello Farside. Nice to see ya.

[TylerJ]

Tar, that definately helps me understand where you are coming from, all I ask is for you to provide evidence of what you are saying, otherwise I will simply disregard what you said. Grab some quotes and put some analysis down.

[TylerJ]

I still feel that people are pushing for an opportunistic lynch on MoS.

[TylerJ]

I still feel that people are pushing for an opportunistic lynch on MoS.

While I agree with the above statement, I also feel that MoS's "plans" could quite well be the act of scum. Wish he had more posting to base his alignment on as the "plans" seem to be the only major tell he has given off.

QFT. It

was

scummy, but so far, that is the only tell I can derive at this moment.

[TylerJ]

True, but the question remains, was it intentional, but this has already been debated...

[TylerJ]

OK so what troubles me about this game is we basically have three events to base everything on.

1) MoS's craptastic plans and whether or not they were intentionally bad.

2) Tarlahindur's attack on me and Phate.

3) The blow back from Tarlahindur's attack on me and Phate.

Thus far a number of people are wholely responding to #1 and apparently ignoring #2-3 which means in their world there is only one important event. I think those people include:
MoS, Oman, Kuribo and Tyler.
I would like to posit that these people may be scum trying to lurk in plane sight and do not want to comment at risk of missing a lynch opportunity. I'd further state that Oman and MoS are less likely to be scum because MoS would naturally try to push suspicion away from himself to either myself or Tar whoever he thought he could get to take the heat, and Oman is less likely as he is pushing for MoS while Tar's votecount was moving upwards. That leaves me to believe that kuribo or Tyler are possible scum candidates that have gone undetected.

And Tar I know I owe you a reply to your last post, sorry I don't think I will have time to get it up today.

And the little bit about Tarhalindurs post was a mess of confusion. What I did catch was his really weak reason for voting Shaft.ed.

Tar, that definately helps me understand where you are coming from, all I ask is for you to provide evidence of what you are saying, otherwise I will simply disregard what you said. Grab some quotes and put some analysis down.

Did you not see those. Granted they do lack in content. But in my defense, I am just getting back from a busy life. Lack of participation tends to lessen the comprehension of what the current issue is. And mind you that I have been merely been responding to questions such as "Why isn't MoS dead yet?" Answer: because I can see that he could just as well be a townie that screwed up as he could be scum planting dangerous plans.

You on the other hand seem to be trying out many different accusations in hopes that one will stick. First you go to the obvious targets, MoS and those who went with his failed plan (good idea for scum). And you react with a vote against Tarlahundur. Then you go to your recent scum nominees: Kuribo and I.

Am I the only one that sees shaft.ed jumping back and forth against different targets? I don't know about the rest of you, but it seems to me that shaft.ed is going at anyone he can just to get a lynch.

[TylerJ]

call it coincidence...

[TylerJ]

I'm not sure what shaft.ed found in Tar comment that he felt good about, however he is going through everything in a step by step manner and pointing to people and reason's why they are scum which seem perfectly rationale.

the problem is he seems to think everyone is scum. While I admit that you shouldn't write anyone off as town, you shouldn't call everyone scum either.

If you think that the reason I started to type a lot of content was because shaft.ed thinks I am suspicious, then why does it so happen to be that the other game I am playing with you has an extra long post as well. Your argument is not valid and is merely speculation. Speculation I might add that is incorrect.

[TylerJ]

I fail to see how the responsibility for that failure would be on my shoulders.

Because you came up with the idea, If you hadn't then there would be a nearly impossible chance for it to ever happen. But enough with semantics.

Tyler, I'm not trying to paint everyone as scum, I'm trying to move discussion. I prefaced my post stating that I really dislike making lynch decisions based on such a small number of incidences and put forth an alternative way to look at players in order to generate further discussion in a new vein.

Sorry for snapping then. However, your evidence used was based off a proccess of elimination, which I find to be real weak evidence in and of itself; just because this guy doesn't seem scummy, doesn't mean the other guy is.

But I wont forget that it seems you are fishing for a guy to hang. Please don't debate about it for the simple reason that it would just be a 'your word against mine' case.

Ohh, and another thing. The fact that your post generated my first long post isn't too big of a deal, look at my other games and you will see that it happened in those too. And such a post would generally have such a result regardless of alignment.

[TylerJ]

Vote: MoS

.

More later, short on time (note that the tells I'm seeing from MoS are universal but even more noteworthy than usual coming from him).

That was wierd, still debating if it was suspicious as well.

[TylerJ]

Vote: MoS

.

More later, short on time (note that the tells I'm seeing from MoS are universal but even more noteworthy than usual coming from him).

I believe, you, but do you have time now?

[TylerJ]

I would vote MoS if it wasn't at -1 already. I had found his plans to just be honest mistakes, however, compiled with the lack of scumhunting he seems the best candidate. I will wait a bit before I put the hammer. I also suggest you claim. Wait, that wouldn't do any good would it? lol.

[TylerJ]

Why is my inclination to hammer scummy.

[TylerJ]

Noting this post for later (need to decide whether to interpret it as scum pushing a wagon without actually joining it or newb town supporting a wagon).

Niether, I am only using caution. Clearly I am not a newb, yet I still make messy mistakes. If you look at the rest of the day, I was hesitant on voting for MoS. If I was pushing for a lynch I wouldn't have been as cautious as I was earlier.

MOS has 3 votes from what I'm counting not 4

MOS has 3 votes from what I'm counting not 4.

Sorry, miss counted, I still don't want to put him at -1

Will to hammer and pushing more for MOS

How is my will to hammer someone that I believe to be mafia scummy?

Also I have an issue when people bring up current games to show behavior in one way or another. It's not an excuse one can argue against and is really bad play.

I don't think this is adressed to me, but I would tend to disagree.

[TylerJ]

Ohh, okay, nevermind. I wasn't trying to persuade everyone, just the one who made the comment.

[TylerJ]

huh, so what was he?

[TylerJ]

So, I did some scum hunting. Wow, I know, amazing isn't it. Anyway...

Phates comment about quacks protecting possible scum caught me for two reasons. First, he seemed to be attempting to assure people that he was in fact a quack (weak heresay, I know, just thinking aloud). Secondly, he was willing to kill in a very careless manner.

Tar made a weak case against phate and his 'possible link' Shaft.ed. Also, the way he laid down the two-sided 'trap' was illogical in itself, yet he was willing to vote for these reasons alone.

Shaft.ed seems to have been pointing at many people already, such as Tar, MoS, Kuribo, and myself. Either he has a talent at not tunnel visioning and looks at everything from different angles, or he is scum looking at anyone that can be an easy kill (MoS would be an easy kill).

If Tar is scum, I don't think Shaft.ed or Phate would be scum. But there is a possibity that Tar and Shaft.ed are both scum, but not because of any links, only for their individual scumminess.

[TylerJ]

Wow, quick votes. Nothing to add just yet. just reading up and saying hi.

And Phate, we can't be certain if anyone is quack. They can easily lie, and me and kuribo could very well be quacks, but we don't know and consequently wouldn't be able to disprove any of the claimed quacks.

[TylerJ]

The problem Phate, is that you and oman would be wasting your votes.

[TylerJ]

Nothing new to mention, still throwing around the phate and oman idea.

[TylerJ]

doing that right now

[TylerJ]

So I did some research on Oman and Phate.

Oman went along with the no lynch and then went after MoS for coming up with that and another strategy. he goes along with the first plan even despite the fact that he saw a flaw. If he is scum, perhaps he was eager to along with the plan because he knew that it wouldn't work that well for town. Antoher side of me says that if he is scum, then why would he want to mention the hole in the strategy?

Again, if oman is scum you would expect that mafia didn't make any kill day one, as oman saw that it would benefit them. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing.

Phates post about if he should use his night ability to find scum was puzzling. If he was scum, I can't see him asking the question, because he could care less about the towns opinion on it. He would just want to kill. So the only reason I can see him as scum doing that is if he was indirectly assuring us that he was quack. But if he was quack then it makes perfect sense, despite the fact that it wasn't an intelligent idea.

those are my thoughts so far, I haven't read through the whole game yet.

Here is another thing, if we get to a point in the game that we have no chance of finding all of the scum fast enough (misslynching in lylo), then I can see- as a last resort- a quack or two using there ability with discretion. But in no other circumstances is it profitable.

[TylerJ]

Again, if oman is scum you would expect that mafia didn't make any kill day one, as oman saw that it would benefit them. Unfortunately there is no way of knowing.

If Oman was scum Oman killed the person above him N1. Please pay attention folks.

Just because I miss something doesn't mean you should get on my case. On the contrary that's why we have a town, not just a townie; so that others can bring up and mention details that we failed to look at. Unfortunately, MoS was lynched because of not thinking things through and town not doing the same.

[TylerJ]

^^^hmmm, I'm going to have to look at kuribo closer. Unfortunately, I have class coming up and I don't have enough time to actually have any in depth analysis.

[TylerJ]

I'm back weekend was busy.

[TylerJ]

I will look into phate more tommorow as him and shaft.ed have been going at it. And as I said earlier, I will also look at kuribo.

Side note: I am not in favor for a mass claim. Well, I take it back, I could care less, but I don't see the point in it. Two people don't know who they are, and we already have the claimed quacks. In the end, we will have the same results.

[TylerJ]

Unpredictable homework showed up with little time to do it, so I was gone. Oman, your logic is what they would call circular logic. One supports the other, which in turn supports the one that supports it. Its like A is needed to get to B, but B is needed to get to A. If we don't have one, we don't have the other. And unfortunately, your hole logic is based off a weak assumption.

Forgive my flakiness- I promised to do some research but even today (the busiest day of the week) I don't have the time.

[TylerJ]

/prodded

The reason why only one of the quacks can be scum is that the mafia have only one kill, so two of the claimed Quacks have to be telling the truth (since otherwise there wouldn't have been 3 kills N1). This also all-but-clears me.

I'm pretty sure at the moment that Phate and shaft.ed are two of the scum (I will check Oman's play in Newb 517 before I vote, however). I have a town read on Kuribo atm, TylerJ looks suspicious, farside moderately suspicious.

More later, see V/LA for details.

Reason being?

After I get caught up on my other games I will do what I promised, so in about an hour..?

[TylerJ]

I've already looked at phate... Don't need to do it again.

Kuribo, not a whole lot to derive from. Shaft.ed said that he seems to follow his lead, but looking around I have only found that he agreed with shaft.eds take on MoS and Phate (both seem insignificant). So shaft.ed please, if I am missing something, show me.

[TylerJ]

Oman and Phate are my top suspects. I gave reasons on page 13 I believe. I would I would be willing to point my vote to either.

I'll give it a day or two to consider before I lay my vote.

[TylerJ]

Please explain why I am scummy...

I am confused with the 'absolutely sure shaft.ed is scum' logic. please explain again.

Shaft.ed, no I didn't have anything else to say.

Now, on to more important things.

Shaft.ed is on my suspicion list again. So with that, I have Shaft.ed, Oman, and Phate. I can't imagine Oman being teamed up with either. I will give some more info when I get back form work today, But I have to leave in three minutes.

[TylerJ]

Please explain why I am scummy...

Because of posts like these. You're either not paying any attention to the game or just trying to wait out the rest of the game. Pretty decent strategy if scum.

I am confused with the 'absolutely sure shaft.ed is scum' logic. please explain again.

Yes I felt Tar's logic was a bit tortured. I hope explaining it again will allow him to think about it harder.

So with that, I have Shaft.ed, Oman, and Phate. I can't imagine Oman being teamed up with either.

Ya think?

The way I am playing isn't a scum strategy, its just because I have a lot of stuff to do. Near the end of this month I'll be doing good though.

And in response to your rude comment 'ya think' I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think it.

[TylerJ]

Forgive me. I didn't think you guys would switch your vote if I placed mine. I was hesitant on placing a vote in an attempt to quickhammer because people might see my intentions and target me. Not to mention that this weekend was filled with play productions. Today I was actually planning on placing a vote. For convinience to you all, and again I apologize. I will wait until I have a more permisable schedule before I sign up for more games.

All I can say is that I did learn a few things about what should and shouldn't be done. IE, if the effects are benefical, attempt to quicklynch if your scum.

For Now on I will VLA weekends as Shaft.ed has done.