Mini 539: Game over

[Xtoxm]

Just like to say I have also seen Apyadg doing as Incog said.

Microscope finding it's way on to me now...This should be interesting

[Shteven]

The below need to be prodded.

4. MafiaSSK
5. charter
6. Ho1den
10. Disciple Slayer
12. Apyadg

Only 6 players made posts on page 14. Probably because of a lot of back and forth, but when you're trying to get answers mainly on people who aren't here, it's hard to move forward. Getting less certain about charter/ho1den as well, if they're willing to lurk. If mafiaSSK doesn't post much soon I'd probably just replace him in spite of his last post, also. Mod's decision final, of course.

[Xtoxm]

The below need to be prodded.

4. MafiaSSK
5. charter
6. Ho1den
10. Disciple Slayer
12. Apyadg

Only 6 players made posts on page 14. Probably because of a lot of back and forth, but when you're trying to get answers mainly on people who aren't here, it's hard to move forward. Getting less certain about charter/ho1den as well, if they're willing to lurk. If mafiaSSK doesn't post much soon I'd probably just replace him in spite of his last post, also. Mod's decision final, of course.

All of those but DS were prodded very recently. Only SSK posted since, so charter, holden, and apyadg need replacing.

[Shteven]

What do you think of Xtoxm? I think I'd like a few opinions regarding the things I've pointed out, and his repeated defense of Ythill.

Personally I've been suspicious of him for a bit, as I think I gave him a bit too much of a pass early on after I saw him being helpful. Being helpful is nice, you catch more flies with honey, etc. But it's a null-tell, and I shouldn't give him townie points for it. That said, I haven't seen any smoking guns like DS has laid down on a fairly regular basis, so all I have is suspicion with no case, hence I'd much rather see DS lynched.

Also, mini-fos: Kuribo. What points against Xtoxm? the best I can find is when you vote him suggesting that there could be a mafia roleblocker, vaguely in defense of Ythill. You've been pretty solidly against Ythill since joining, which I understand, but voting by association on day 1 is very risky. Ythill may stall his case with his claim, but I'd wait until he's proven scum to go hunting for his partners. On his own, Xtoxm just hasn't done much.

[Shteven]

All of those but DS were prodded very recently. Only SSK posted since, so charter, holden, and apyadg need replacing.

Entirely likely. If they have, replace. Sorry to the mod for having to find so many replacements!

[kuribo]

Also, mini-fos: Kuribo. What points against Xtoxm? the best I can find is when you vote him suggesting that there could be a mafia roleblocker, vaguely in defense of Ythill. You've been pretty solidly against Ythill since joining, which I understand, but voting by association on day 1 is very risky. Ythill may stall his case with his claim, but I'd wait until he's proven scum to go hunting for his partners. On his own, Xtoxm just hasn't done much.

It's not just the association with Ythill, it's the repeated attempts to shift blame from his vote onto the town.

IE, "I'll change my vote if you guys think I should."

That's a scumtell, to me. It says that he wants our approval before he jumps on a bandwagon. Or that if the lynch comes up townie, he wants to be able to point back and say "Well, you guys wanted me to..."

[Ythill]

[mrow]Responses to Incog

After reading all of the reactions generated after your claim, do you still believe claiming was the right thing to do?

Yes. I think the strategy is sound. My one concern is that I could be wrong about you, in which case I’ve blown the wad on this plan without nearly as much benefit. So if you turn up town at some point I will concede that the strategy was ill-timed, but I still believe it to be valid.

You've now removed your vote and FoS from underneath all of your posts, but where do you currently stand with your issues against me?

I removed these on the advice of both Justin and Shteven, agreeing that broadcasting my night kill was bad for town. On the issue of your alignment, I stand where I’ve stood since your response to my PBPA. I believe that most of your defenses hinge on the supposition that I am scum and that the few others rely on false logic or assumptions. I would like to hear you frankly discuss the “actual” motives behind some of your questionable play (from the PBPA).

Also, you've indicated that you too are suspicious of Disciple Slayer, and you would vote against him but you're waiting for his response. What do you think of both me and Shteven voting against Disciple Slayer as of current?

I believe that DS’ lack of a response speaks pretty loudly considering his posting habits. What I’m waiting for is more information on others. I’d like a good read on Claus, and would like to spend some time looking at charter and Apyadg which is a bit frustrating since they’re not here. As for you and Shteven on the wagon, I don’t have a lot to say about that. Considering current events, bussing DS would be appropriate. I’ve already said I don’t consider my own certainty foolproof and I would be pretty surprised to find that all three of you were scum though I think it’s a safe bet that at least one of you are, which opens up a ton of scenarios. These all seem pretty plausible to me now but will be far more clear once we know one or more of the alignments involved.

You were highly suspicious of both me and Shteven, so why have you not questioned the wagon formed on DS?

After the way DS reacted to my claim and then vanished again, I find it very hard to question anyone for voting him. To townies, he has negated any belief that he might have been a power role and has seriously tainted his reputation, possibly beyond repair. To scum, he’s either become a patsy or the perfect mislynch. [mrow]Response to Justin

God help me, I think I’m starting to understand how you think.

That must be unpleasant. Only point on this part of your post: I do not intend to hold anyone else responsible for my decision. If I do so, I trust you’ll call me on it at that time. I agree that my defense of Apyadg relies on WIFOM somewhat. I wouldn't consider it a factual discourse on his meaning/motives but rather a possibility, where your statement was that you didn’t see any honest possibilities. It is only my opinion that it is the most reasonable possibility and I don’t expect you to agree with me there. As for the #47 --> #92 transformation, I agree that it is the strongest point of the case. However, I do believe there is at least one non-scummy possibility here. Where we differ is on the subtle levels of our read of what Apy means in #92. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to think he is giving

more reasons to unvote

in #92 after explicitly claiming earlier that my argument was the only reason for his unvote, and is therefore not being truthful. Whereas, in #92, I see Apy

arguing against

supposed reasons to keep his vote on SSK (intending a lynch and/or pressure). To illustrate this possibility further: from reads we can see that (A) Apy was suspicious of SSK (B) he was unsure as to whether lynching for bad play was a good idea (C) he didn’t have another suspect. Let’s give his tell-based suspicion of SSK an entirely arbitrary score of +1 (reason to lynch); SSK’s bad play would be worth +1 or –1 depending on whether he decided lynching for bad play was a good or bad idea, so his “total reasons to lynch SSK” is either 2 or 0, which is worth a vote to him since he doesn’t have anywhere better to put it (and he mentions that he’s not sure if this is worth a lynch on SSK). Once Apy decided lynching for bad play was a bad idea, he sees that 1-1=0, he decides that there isn’t reason to lynch SSK, and he unvotes. When questioned in depth, he claims that he didn’t have a reason to lynch (analogy translation: the equation equaled zero) and suggests that a pressure vote in this case was not a factor (analogy translation: pressure was not +1 in the equation). Does this make any sense at all?

[Ythill]

On current events: I think it's pretty clear that neither Xtoxm or Kurbio are scum.

I think that any Xtoxm behavior which could be construed as defending me has only appeared since my claim. Before that time, I was his PE#2 and he was actively attacking me. I agree with kurbio that fishing for town opinion is a scumtell but don't personally think this is enough to outweigh the Xtoxm towntells I've seen.

[Xtoxm]

IE, "I'll change my vote if you guys think I should."

I did

NOT

say that.

False-quoteing me is something I intensley disrespect...

I thought he was town to, but falsequoteing?

[kuribo]

I'd be happy to go along with that...if you die and your mafia, then Ythill is twlling the truth, if your town, we can lynch Ythill.

I would participate in a lynch for those 2, at this point.

If DS is the way votes are going I'll be happy to swap my vote.

Tell me, Xtoxm, which part did I fakequote?

[kuribo]

Not only did you absolutely say flat-out, "I would swap my vote if that's the way things are going," and then accuse me of falsely quoting you, but you've stated several times before that you would vote or go along with the others.

[Xtoxm]

Tell me, Xtoxm, which part did I fakequote?

The one in my previous post.

[Xtoxm]

go along with the others.

Did not say that either.

[Xtoxm]

And I've already told you about the changing to DS thing, I already previously posted him as #2 suspect behing SSK, and said I was happy to lynch him.

I never said anything like or suggesting I wanted to vote whereever other poeple wanted me too

And I already explained that why do you ask again?

[Shteven]

I’ve already said I don’t consider my own certainty foolproof and I would be pretty surprised to find that all three of you were scum though I think it’s a safe bet that at least one of you are, which opens up a ton of scenarios.

Where "all three of you" means Myself, Incognito, and DS.

I'm not going to hold this against you, but you're making a rather empty claim here. Assuming you are a pro-town role, the probability of none of 3 randomly selected players being scum is 34%. It's much harder to be right the first time, which would usually go without saying, but as you're claiming a vig, I felt it would be appropriate to mention yet again.

[Claus]

Good Morning! Sorry for the weekend delay.

@Stephen
: About Justin

If you want to see some really long posts, read a few posts from here down. Just skim; they're huge. He was town there; that doesn't prove anything here, but I'd put him in the unlisted section for now.

It is not the length of his posts. It is the fact that I can't really feel that he is attacking anyone (other than his earlier Ythill attacks). Reading him in this game (don't wanna read your link now), I feel I'm listening to a politician about non-popular matters.

@Ythill

:About Apyadg

in #60 (after I have argued that lynching for bad play is not wise), Apyadg still suspects SSK but has decided not to pursue an SSK lynch based on his bad play, so he unvotes;

Basically stated: Apyadg is unsure about strategy but thinks he has a read, he makes up his mind about strategy and acts accordingly without changing the read

Hmmm. No, I don't agree. As you put it, he didn't make his mind, but used your reasons instead to make his mind. He used everyone's reason to vote, and your reasons to unvote. I'm thinking your town read of him might be pride of having convinced him,

:about me

Yay! Somebody likes me (...) so there must be some reasonable dirt on me. At least enough to drop me to MotR on a player analysis? This is especially the case since I spent the early part of the game intentionally dropping minor scumtells as part of my “secret infallible plan.”

Lol. Don't feel so good about yourself. I think you are town, but I don't think your style is so great. You seem to think that this game is much more complex than it really is -- and although I'm not a veteran player by any means, I see things in your play that remind me the first few times I played as town.

Also, you're a claimed power role. Either you believe a claim or you don't. So there is no MotR for you.

Regarding Incog, I agree with you about his alignment but I find it very suspicious when anyone makes a meta-claim about someone without naming the game.

Really? I think you did the same, regarding Nightjay, before? If it means so much to you, the name of the game is on my sig, under "currently playing".


@Incognito:

Claus, I don't think your meta-analysis of me is entirely fair and certainly don't think it should be used to place me on your so-called "Naughty List".
(...)
Further, that game is still ongoing...

Well, you are already dead there, so I don't think we have any problems in the "ongoing" front. And the big point is that your play under fire, and not under fire, on both games, changed significantly and similarly to my eyes.

You started cool (loved your "hate pressure votes" comment), then eventually settled on Apydog. Then when you come under fire by Yth, you set all your cannons on him - eventually to the point of forgetting your previous attacks on Apy.

Same thing with my attack - you question me in an agressive manner because I put you in my suspect list. So I'm partners with Ythill and DS? Where is Apy in your suspicion scale now?

Also, why didn’t you mention anything about Ythill’s role-claim? Do you think that even with his role-claim at L-4, his mistake in “excellent strategy number 4”, and the points I bring up with respect to why his role-claim makes no sense that he still belongs on your “Nice List”? You even listed him as “SK possibility”. That’s a nice thing?

Yup. I love SKs. <3

But seriously, the roleclaim will sort itself, because it is provable. It is kinda like discussing a D1 doctor claim - not worth it. If he really is a vig, the Mafia/SK/Cult will probably off him tonight. If he is not, we will know tomorrow by the number of bodies.

What do you think of your predecessor’s arguments against me? How about his arguments against MafiaSSK?

I can't answer for my predecessors arguments. Do you really want me to do it, or are you just entering OMGUS territory?

@Justin

First let me thank you for calling me timid. My play has been called many things, but timid hasn’t been one of them.

Really? I'm surprised that this is the first time.

How about the fact that even though you are one of the most active posters in the thread, you have only one serious vote in these 15 pages?

let's grab a few posts.

Well, I won't go as far as to vote MafiaSSK yet, but if we're starting to talk let me (unvote Ythill)
(...)
... these last votes you are getting are because of something you did.

You say he is acting odd. You even say that you're unvoting Yth because of this. But you never vote him.

Your post number 7 is a mess. You question Incognito and mention Apy - saying that you want to defend him but you can't? The only think I can make from this post is that you're not taking a position regarding Incognito or Apy.

In your post number 12 you question Apy pretty throughly, and call him oportunist, but don't even FoS him. So what do you think of Apy? Scummy or not scummy? If I say that you think that he is scummy from this post, you can come and say that I'm overstating things. :-/

On post 13 you say that you have a "less than benevolent" view of CronX (me), but you never questioned him before. So we can't even use your questioning posts to know who you suspect. The post about MafiaSSK is just as bad. "A mislynch is a mislynch"? Argh.

Then when Ythill claims you unvote, and without your vote I really have NO CLUE on who you really think is scummy. You just keep saying that you don't like his claim, but you don't seem to be worried about looking for someone else to vote for.

Then you say DS is your number one, but doesn't vote for him.

Your entire post number 26.

So yeah. For a player this chatty, you position yourself little, and vote even less. Still surprised that I'm calling you timid?

I know why I discussed possible false claims in this game, given the situation in which we have found ourselves, but I would love to read the three games you mentioned where this was done by scum. Would you mind directing me to those games?

Why did you discuss possible false claims? The town should wait to discuss false claims until they have been performed. Since townies can only claim their roles, discussing false claims before they happen only benefits scum.

The two games (with three occurrences) were:
Mini 503 - Dead People have powers
- RC was suggested on the first page. Draux promptly discussed the possible fake roleclaims scum would take, and which would be most and least benefitial to the town. He was the last scum.

Open 44 - Two-Fold Mafia
- RC was suggested on D2, and performed on D3. Shaft.ed put up a whole list of RC possibilities on D2, before we agreed not to RC, and Aioqwe did the same on D3. Each was scum in a different scumgroup.

===============
I may comment on the Kuribo x Xtoxm x Ythill love triangle later.

[kuribo]

And I've already told you about the changing to DS thing, I already previously posted him as #2 suspect behing SSK, and said I was happy to lynch him.

I never said anything like or suggesting I wanted to vote whereever other poeple wanted me too

And I already explained that why do you ask again?

I'm sorry, when you say that "If DS is the way things are going, I'd be happy to sway my vote," I interpreted that to read, "If you guys want to get rid of DS, I'll jump on the bandwagon."

Clearly, I had interpreted that wrong.

[Incognito]

You started cool (loved your "hate pressure votes" comment), then eventually settled on Apydog. Then when you come under fire by Yth, you set all your cannons on him - eventually to the point of forgetting your previous attacks on Apy.

Eh? Firstly, Apyadg has been inactive for quite some time now. Does it really make much sense for me to keep drilling the same issues I've had with him over and over again when the guy's not even here to provide input? Secondly, I didn't forget my previous attacks on Apy. He's been one of my FoS's ever since I changed my vote from Apy to Ythill. I've also been mentioning comments as of recent about his lurking as he continues to look into this forum and continues to remain active in his newbie game but refuses to provide content here.

Same thing with my attack - you question me in an agressive manner because I put you in my suspect list. So I'm partners with Ythill and DS? Where is Apy in your suspicion scale now?

Well let's see. I didn't vote against you or place an FoS on you or anything along those lines so no, I'm not suggesting that you are partners with Ythill and DS. I'm really surprised that you would even think that; is it wrong for me to question your analysis of myself and the other players of the game? Again, I recommend you look back at my recent posts to see where I stand with Apyadg; he still remains as my FoS and I would still like to see the scum-hunting that he promised.

What do you think of your predecessor’s arguments against me? How about his arguments against MafiaSSK?

I can't answer for my predecessors arguments. Do you really want me to do it, or are you just entering OMGUS territory?

Haha, Claus, you crack me up. I've also mentioned previously that I would question you when you were all caught up with your read since your predecessor had a number of issues with me. See below:

If I truly found ChronX scummier, I would have voted for him. My posts following Apyadg's reply and ChronX's reply were made for me to both clarify what I stated in Post 58 and to determine if ChronX truly didn't understand what I was getting at or if he was deliberately trying to misrepresent me. Eventually he fell silent and mentioned that he would be away for about a week, so unfortunately I wasn't able to get a good determination of what he was attempting to do and now he's been replaced. I'll wait for Claus's interpretation of the thread to come to this kind of conclusion.

So in response to your question, yes, I really would like for you to at least attempt to answer those questions. Your reading of me from the pre-Ythill PBPA part of the game differs fairly drastically from your predecessor's reading of me from that same point of the game so I think my questions for you are pretty crucial.

@Ythill:

Thanks for answering those questions. I've already attempted to respond to your PBPA of me and found myself having a hard time doing so. All I can really say is this: I agree that my sig:noise ratio was fairly high during the period in which you analyzed. However, I think you should seriously consider the amount of inactivity that existed at that time period. I remember you mentioning something about how we should watch our sig:noise ratio out of respect for the replacements and you went further to state that you like the smaller, intimate setting provided as it allows for good information gathering. I can't say that I completely agree with you on your second point. I'm not a fan of allowing players the chance to look at things retrospectively and responding to issues from that point; I think more information can be gathered when all the players in the game are active and providing content during the same time period.

I also don't know how to respond to your fence-sitting comments since I don't agree with your read on me. I can't say that my issues with Apyadg were completely my own since charter was the first to place a vote on him. I could say though that my issues with Disciple Slayer and you were self-motivated. Disciple Slayer wasn't being scrutinized by anyone when I first mentioned my issues with him, and my issues with you were different from Shteven's and kuribo's issues. If you really are the Vig and still feel like I haven't swayed your opinion of me, then unfortunately I guess you'll just have to shoot me tonight to find out my alignment. If it comes down to that, I'm hoping that enough information has been provided from me and people's reactions towards me to at least lead the town in a positive direction.

[Ythill]

@ Claus: Nice defense. If you're scum, you're slippery. I'll keep that in mind. And yes, I'll admit I do play pretty clumsy. That whole

#4: really smart scum won't kill anyone

thing definately qualifies for the "Worst Scumtell You Have Dropped As Town" thread.

As you put it, he didn't make his mind, but used your reasons instead to make his mind. He used everyone's reason to vote, and your reasons to unvote.

Apy clearly used his own reason to vote. I did call him on using only my reasons to unvote and still have it listed as a scumtell, but I also think his defense to my accusation was sound.

I'm thinking your town read of him might be pride of having convinced him

I considered that but I don't believe it is was the case, especially since the read didn't come until much later. Having said that, I am questioning two of my town reads now: Apyadg and charter.

[Ythill]

@ Incog: I appreciate your willingness to defend yourself in a non-OMGUS manner. I can see how responding to the PBPA could have been tough because it was quite extensive. Let's just take things from here for now.

If you really are the Vig and still feel like I haven't swayed your opinion of me, then unfortunately I guess you'll just have to shoot me tonight to find out my alignment. If it comes down to that, I'm hoping that enough information has been provided from me and people's reactions towards me to at least lead the town in a positive direction.

I’m noting the appeal to emotion here. I can assure you that I have not made the final decision on my NK yet and probably wont until night or just before. It might not be you. It will absolutely be whomever I think is the best kill for town, regardless of the target’s feelings.

...my issues with you were different from Shteven's and kuribo's issues.

I haven’t verified whether they were or not. Your issues with me in/after post #215 were reliant almost entirely on my attack against you. Even if it is a fact that you are scum and fence-sitting at every opportunity before my attack, there is no similar temptation for you to fence-sit or follow during your OMGUS on me. So your point is irrelevant to the question of your earlier behavior.

Disciple Slayer wasn't being scrutinized by anyone when I first mentioned my issues with him...

Again, reaching for a defense does not require the same scum strategy as setting up a mislynch, so it wouldn’t disprove other fence-sitting if your cases against DS were lone and unique, but

I did

check up on your statement here and it doesn’t look good.

Unless you're talking about when you called DS out for lurking (which you did to a lot of people), your first suspicions of him show up in #191, the post during which it appears you are preempting my PBPA. In that post you make three accusations. Not only were other people already looking at DS before then, but all three of your accusations had already been made by other players:

I'm extremely leery of Disciple Slayer.

Justin Playfair brings up information that's at least noteworthy about him

with regard to how he was able to rapidly appear in the thread after I called him out for non-posting.

(bold added for emphasis)

I think more noteworthy though is how Disciple Slayer promised player summaries following his reread but instead, only followed that statement up with a player list and a vote on Shteven.

Which Shteven pointed out in #184.

That's twice now where Disciple Slayer has been able to look at things retrospectively, gather information from the evidence provided, and place a vote on the player feeling the most pressure at said time.

The first instance of which was pointed out, including the part about the advantage of retrospection, by Ho1den in #91.

This sets up your next mention of DS in your defense to my PBPA:

And so you find me scummier than Disciple Slayer for making Post 109 than his Post 89 in which he pops up out of nowhere to place a vote on Apyadg? I think you've been awfully accommodating towards Disciple Slayer this whole game. Apyadg was already being questioned by Ho1den, and I became suspicious of Disciple Slayer for placing a vote on Apyadg the way he did. Considering Disciple Slayer's action, I was actually beginning to form a different opinion about Apyadg but I was still waiting for the scum-hunting that he promised before removing my vote. He has yet to provide us with that scum-hunting.

Translation: DS is scummier than me. Ythill and DS must me scumbuddies. See how I suspected DS a few posts ago? I almost unvoted Apyadg before Ythill brought it up.

The next time you mention DS is in #239. You quote him, say “Heh. Spoken like Ythill's scum buddy,” and then proceed to “prove” that I am scum without mentioning him again. The next place you suspect him is in #278 where you openly follow Shteven and Justin onto the DS wagon after he’s dropped his smoking gun and even I have FoSed him.

As an aside, something else of note appears in that last block-quote above: you say, “I was actually beginning to form a different opinion about Apyadg,” which is a little suspect considering what you just said to Claus.

[Xtoxm]

And I've already told you about the changing to DS thing, I already previously posted him as #2 suspect behing SSK, and said I was happy to lynch him.

I never said anything like or suggesting I wanted to vote whereever other poeple wanted me too

And I already explained that why do you ask again?

I'm sorry, when you say that "If DS is the way things are going, I'd be happy to sway my vote," I interpreted that to read, "If you guys want to get rid of DS, I'll jump on the bandwagon."

Clearly, I had interpreted that wrong.

That's ok, thankyou.

[Ythill]

@ Incog: Realizing this AM that my rambling argument was unfair (in the same way as my PBPA) without a few summary questions for you to respond to. So...

Can you explain how unique and/or self-motivated cases against me and DS would clear you of earlier allegations of fence-sitting and following? Why did you claim that nobody else was scrutinizing DS when it was untrue? Why did you say that your issues against DS were self-motivated when none of them were unique?

[Apyadg]

My sincere apologies, I've been checking in on mafia regularly, but entirely forgot about this game, I know from other games how irritating it is to have someone not posting, it won't happen again, it's been added to my bookmarks.

In this post, I'm pretty much just going to defend myself against my most controversial (my only?) action in this game. I'll re-read thw whole game tomorrow morning.

I'll be using Justin Playfair's post #306, as he lists all of the posts that relate to my vote/unvote, and summarises them quite nicely.

Because in post 47, before Ythill’s post 57, which “convinced” Apyadg that it would be a bad idea to lynch MafiaSSK, Apyadg said he didn’t think it would be a good idea to lynch MafiaSSK. And yet in Apaydg’s post 70 he says, explicitly, that he realized because of Ythill’s post 57 that there was not a good reason to lynch MafiaSSK.

Because in post 47 Apyadg says it wouldn’t be a good idea to lynch MafiaSSK, but he keeps his vote on MafiaSSK until post 60, when he uses Ythill’s post to justify removing his vote. And then in post 92 he tells Incognito that he sees little reason to keep a vote on someone unless he thinks they should be lynched at the time.

My logic behind it was thus:

Post #47 - I wasn't entirely sure whether SSK was scum or not. It seemed to me that he was playing very badly, but that would have been true were he scum or town. I was leaning towards scum due to the outright lie to the town, but was not really sure of myself; what justification did I have for really believing he was a bad scum player instead of a bad townie?

Then, after considering Ythill's argument, I decided (though I'm having trouble seeing why I did) that even *if* SSK was scum, it wasn't a good time to lynch him (I think it was because we wouldn't really gain much information to help us forward, though I'll check that when I do a re-read tomorrow), and so I unvoted. My post #92 does however seem to be verging on lunacy, it appears to be indefencible, but hopefully will not be deemed voteworthy.

[Ythill]

@ Apy: I'm sure the other players appreciate your return to this subject. Personally, I'm more concerned with the scum-hunting you promised. Any idea when you'll be able to catch up and address current topics and/or your suspects?

[Apyadg]

Ythill, that depends which approach people would want me to take.

I'm prepared to go through the whole topic and see what I make of it. It's quite a lot of material to go through -- considering this is my first non-newbie game, it's pretty tough going -- so I think it'll take me a couple of days to go through it all, make some notes, and try to comprehend it as one game rather than just loads of posts -- by trying to see inconsistencies, as well as how arguments fit together.

However, I'd imagine that most of the cases have been closed satisfactorily, and that any new insights I bring will be few and far between, with the rest just being a mass of text with no relevance to the game as it stands.

Would it be preferable for me to only address the topics you're discussing now, as well as ones people specifically point to if they want to know my thoughts on it? If so, I will probably be able to summarise my thoughts on the topics covered on the last couple of pages tomorrow morning.