Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Are you closer to my age, or that of TS ?

[Bookitty]

I'm not certain why Yosarian is ignoring the case against Quagmire. I'm not sure why anyone would believe that, in the event that Quagmire did NOT read his role PM (something I seriously doubt, based on the timing of his revelation) that Quagmire is thus acting as a pure townie and out to help the town.

If you were playing the first day without certainty of your alignment, for whatever reason, that would NOT make you town. It would make you neutral. You'd be hedging your bets, playing for yourself, watching the town and keeping your observations to yourself. You would not be revealing scum, because you might be one. You would not be making cases against people who might be your scumbuddy, your mason buddy, whoever... you would be playing as cautiously as you could and waiting for the information that would make your observations make sense. You surely wouldn't reveal those suspicions.

So this whole argument about how Quagmire is playing for the town is nonsense from the start, in my view. But I do think he's read his role PM. I think he slipped up, and now he's gone quiet, and Yosarian is talking about lurker lynches and making accusations of other people.

It doesn't look good. But I will wait for a response to my question before I draw any conclusions.

And, yours, Ramp.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This game has suddenly gained a new level of interest.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So...kitty. If me, MoS and Quagmire were boogers, who would you pick first ?

[Yosarian2]

Yosarian, what's your opinion of my post 1003?

You at one point stated that if Quagmire had not read his role PM, he was acting "pure town". Can you support that statement with any actions that Quagmire has taken that seem especially townie to you?

That's not quite what I said.

I just said that I would expect a person who hadn't read his PM to basically act like a townie, in reference to the "would he lie or not" question.

As to if he looks especally townie to me, meh. He looks like Quagmire always looks.

[Yosarian2]

You don't really believe that the two people on MoS's wagon are both scum, and that MoS is also scum to boot, do you?

Not really, no. I think that Kal and Panzer are more likely then average to be scum, and that it's possible they're scum together. I also think that MOS is slightly more likely then average to be scum, for completly unrelated reasons. Clearly I don't think all three of them are scum together.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Quagmire isn't scummy to me, just incredibly anti-town in this game. Not by not reading his role pm, but by claiming it, and refusing to contribute or to ask for a replacement. Still, WIFOM all you like, we can't point to him as definite scum. TS main point against him is that he may have read his role from the beginning, and truth be told she is pissed that he jerked us around for 40 pages and wants to eliminate him for the sake of the happy times.

Erg0 and Yosarian, on the other hand, seem very cool-headed about this and have thought things out in a similar fashion to me, albeit more calmly and -don't laugh- profoundly. I share their views in that we should lynch Kalei or another lurker rather than Quag if we have time, but in the end will lynch him if we have to, to evade a no-lynch at deadline.

[Yosarian2]

If you were playing the first day without certainty of your alignment, for whatever reason, that would NOT make you town. It would make you neutral. You'd be hedging your bets, playing for yourself, watching the town and keeping your observations to yourself. You would not be revealing scum, because you might be one. You would not be making cases against people who might be your scumbuddy, your mason buddy, whoever... you would be playing as cautiously as you could and waiting for the information that would make your observations make sense. You surely wouldn't reveal those suspicions.

Well...I would think that the entire point of a person not reading their role PM would be so they COULD act exactally like a normal vanillia townie, so they wouldn't have any extra information they might accidently give away or any scummy motivations they might leak or whatever. At least, that's the justifcation that's usually given for it in mafia discussion threads, that you won't act scummy if you don't know you're a scum. (shrug)

I do think you're getting me confused with hagdafas here, though. You seem to be putting his words in my mouth.

[Albert B. Rampage]

TS, what happened to lynching hagdafas ?

[Bookitty]

Yosarian, I'm trying to ascertain exactly why you are unwilling to vote Quagmire.

You'd stated earlier, explaining your defense of Panzer, that "Panzer made a bunch of posts that sounded logical to me, he was basically making more sense then I usually hear from him, and it gave me good vibes about him. (shrug) Nothing huge, but enough for a few pages into the game" but now you're saying that "he's been acting incredibly scummy all game".

I don't think (I could be wrong) that you're defending Quagmire because he's your scumbuddy. I doubt anyone would be that obvious. But I do find your defense of him odd, and your statements regarding Panzerjager are contradictory.

The point of my post 1003 is that the timing of Quagmire's statement doesn't make any sense unless he was deliberately trying to distract from something. Do you agree or disagree with that analysis? Why would town bring up such a controversial subject while under no real pressure, and with no real provocation, in your view?

Ramp: We'll discuss it later.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That was a nice attempt on TS to completely misrepresent what Yosarian2 said. Just about par for the course, though, eh?

He ain't going to claim, so we might as well lynch or deadline lynch him. Either that or we ignore quagmire completely, but support for another wagon will be even more difficult.

That's only because everyone is getting way too hung up on the Quagmire issue. If you just step back and take your blinders off, it's not that hard. Quagmire, whether or not he has read his role pm, will have to read it tonight, and he'll be acting with full knowledge of his alignment. He's playing like a neutral now, because he IS hedging his bets, but in this game, there is nothing he can really take advantage of as a result of this action. Sure, we can't read him Day 1, but well be able to read him after that. It's not like lynching him will make us able to better read his actions. All you're doing is saying, "oh well, he's making it so we can't read his actions, we might as well lynch him instead of actually hunting scum." That's bullshit.

[Erg0]

I don't want to lynch a lurker, I want to lynch Peers.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I want to lynch Peers too, man.

[Erg0]

Then I suggest that you vote for him.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I want to lynch Kalei, has and Sikario too.

[Erg0]

You're not going to lynch anyone if you're not voting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

There's just so many desserts to choose from, I don't know which one to choose.

[Erg0]

Would it help if I just told you what to do?

VOTE FOR PEERS!

[Albert B. Rampage]

What if he has an undesirable after-taste, or if I don't digest it properly ?

[Erg0]

N_vo_ot_{e K}su_obli_rmi_lnal _aen_sou_hgh?

[Erg0]

Oops, that subliminal message belongs to another game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

lmao

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ramp: We'll discuss it later.

Its later

[Bookitty]

I'd support a Peers or Sikario lynch, based on my theory about why Quagmire brought up his role PM at that time. Of the two I prefer to lynch Peers, because on a reread he seems pretty scummy throughout the game.

Ramp, looking at my commentary and votes during this game, do you really need to ask? 'Snot even a question, really.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What does that have to do with the game ?