Mini 546: House Mafia - Game Over

[Adel]

We is my team

obviously

duh.

huge slip...

huge

...

right?

[Adel]

is the L-unit anything like the L-word? Those are some dykes to watch out for...

[Adel]

/in as "Not L-Unit"

"NLU"

"n-Lu"

Go team n-Lu!

[Adel]

non random vote: pooky

, I think it was a slip up

qft

non random vote: pooky

[Adel]

Neil Gaimann's "A Study in Emerald" ftw. Dr. Watson ("Elementary, my dear Watson,") takes apart royalty with his surgeon's knives.

[Adel]

Vote: Trustgossip

((Sorry for delay, been playing Phoenix Wright constantly for the last few days. I like to read up on tort law when I'm not devouring biochemistry))

Every Phoenix Wright game I have played (the first 2) is

criminal

law, not tort law. Not only are you clearly concocting an outrageous lie, but the lie involves hiding something criminal.

unvote, vote:trustgossip

My captain, my captain,
I follow you,
My captain.

[Adel]

I thknk the scum are much more like to have joined the first team than the latter.

[Adel]

I think my stunt worked.

unvote

google "anthony hopkins 62 site:mafiascum.net" for clarification

[Adel]

i just posted in the wrong game.

vote: trustgossip

[Adel]

Interesting theory. Why is it so?

Also, my meta on TG has him making bad excuses for not posting on day 1 when he's town (see Candy Mafia).

I love how I drew two votes before I had a chance to reply.

nice.

I meta based upon one game is crap. A one-game meta read of me could demonstrate that I claim doctor on day 1's, and then claim that I fakeclaimed during twilight of day 1's, when I really am a doctor.

whatever.

Why would the first group be more likely to contain scum? Strength in numbers -- they would be the group more likely to pay attention to the rules and knew immediately they could team up.

~~~

was the tell volkan identified valid at all? i thought it was, plus he is on my team, so I went with it.

[Adel]

mod:

who is Armix voting for, me or ErgO? You have his name listed after both of us in your last votecount.

[Adel]

I'd like Adel and Dean to respond to my questions on the previous page.

Which questions?

[Adel]

Pooky was the first to attract others, Volkans was the first to fill... but I guess I see your point. I still like the wagon I'm on though, so I won't unvote.

[Adel]

when did I ask for more information?
I'm just chilling out on your wagon until three more players join me. Then we will hang you and call it a day.

I don't think it is a big deal.

[Adel]

Actually, Trust, I'm fairly sure non-commitment is the most scummy thing you can do.

However, my sick reads tell me you aren't scum. Neither is Ergo.

Unvote

Guess I'll do this

Vote curiouskarmadog

Smacking Pooky too hard for the wrong reasons. Could be double scum tell (makes valid arguement vs other scum that isn't enough to get him lynched, good set up for both), rather lynch him and find out.

I like those reason -- much better than my current ones.

unvote, vote:curiouskarmadog

[Adel]

ckd -- don't fret, it is all just part of my new "random bandwagon" stage.

[Adel]

unvote vote: Adel

armlx I'd really like to hear where you got 80% scum read on me, and 20% on vollkan so early in this game.

So you would rather see some bullshit statistics? I'm moving around & stirring the pot.

Do I look like an easy target to you?

[Adel]

Erg0 is trying too hard.. like those rough moments before the coffee is brewed, it is still a little early for logic.

[Adel]

unvote, vote:Erg0

in a blatantly opportunistic attempt to rid this game of a big 'ole

GRUMP!

[Adel]

those sound like good and logical reasons to vote for me. Why are you hesitating? Would you rather that someone else places a vote on my wagon while you sit back and return to lurking?

[Adel]

my only expectation is that our mod will throw in the twist once we hit a predetermined number of posts.

[Adel]

I couldn't have expected better results: just a little bit of erratic behavior brought out two votes and a wagon push by a lurking player.

unvote, vote: The Jive Machine

for the scummy behavior of keeping a low profile and only popping in long enough to try to add some fuel to the hottest fire.

[Adel]

As for my Adel vote, it was more a pressure vote, I didn't like her bandwagoning. But I guess your right. Meta'ing her a bit more, she seems to play like this often.

bullshit. I haven't played like this before. Cite your sources or face the noose.

[Adel]

Dischordian Algorithm was an experiment to see if I could play as a pseudo-village idiot. It didn't work.

You changed your mind on me because you remembered that game suddenly? Why did you try to make it sound like you did research? Do you usually have faith on meta-reads based upon one game? Why should anyone have any faith in your opinion at this point?

[Adel]

his previous four posts would've been more like six if not eight if not for the quota fairy. I don't know about the rest of you, but the gray screen of death has never made me post

more

, only

less

.

[Adel]

armix and Adel voting partnership noted.

it is all an illusion in your mind.

unvote, vote: shaft.ed[/b[

[Adel]

ckd: it is early on day 1. Normally the random-nonsense phase is over before I join in. This time I felt like participating in the lunacy.

[Adel]

183 is a great and powerful post.

unvote[/b[

[Adel]

What do you want me to contribute to this game other than who I think are scum?

I am not giving you my recipe for my special cookies.

they are age old family secret.

this reminded me of the story:

Gutei raised his finger whenever he was asked a question about Zen. A boy attendant began to imitate him in this way. When a visitor asked the boy what his master had preached about, the boy raised his finger.

Gutei heard about the boy's mischief, seized him and cut off his finger with a knife. As the boy screamed and ran out of the room, Gutei called to him. When the boy turned his head to Gutei, Gutei raised up his own finger. In that instant the boy was enlightened.

When Gutei was about to die, he said to the assembled monks,"I received this one-finger Zen from Tenryu. I used it all my life and yet could not exhaust it" and then he passed away.

[Adel]

why is Jive machine so hesitant to vote? Afraid of a voting record?

[Adel]

this game is like the mafia version of a slow race.

[Adel]

after 215 and 219, I'm astonished that J. Machine is still alive.

[Adel]

it is. Why can't you pay attention to detail? Do you really think you can hack it in the medical world?

[Adel]

vote: jivemachine

[Adel]

reading for the win!

vote: armix

[Adel]

Adel I must admit I'm intrigued. I haven't seen you mention armlx outside of a mild back and forth with CKD.

mini 518 demonstrated how astute ckd cn be as town, and I figure that if he is scum than his hunch may just be a scum-distancing technique.

[Adel]

With two people gone today and then one more at night, a double mislynch spells a very unpleasant Day Two.

once again reading for the win.

*psst*... the mafia don't have a nk.

[Adel]

An important question I would really really like for all player to answer as soon as possible:

Did you:
a. Remember
b. Forget
c. Never know

that

4) The bad doctors cannot kill you. This is the Princeton-Plainsboro Teaching Hospital, not the Hezbollah recruitment office.

Which is it? A? B? or C?

[Adel]

I wasn't and now he is fakeclaiming my tactic. scummy. "astute" =! "cop" ... 518 is relevant.

[Adel]

so how where those actions of yours

Early game, where I was probably the scummiest, I was just experimenting with some different things to pass the "random" voting stage. Namely acting as scummy as possible without ensuring my lynch.

doesn't compute.

[Adel]

[ I still don't really understand why you're even making these arguments though, Adel isn't exactly your direct competition of a lynch candidate.

I'm trying to get the dude lynched. He has to try

something

.

[Adel]

Something to consider is that Erg0 and Pooky would probably be the hardest to nail as scum.

[Adel]

cross what line? why are you at -1? why can't you keep your story straight?

[Adel]

An important question I would really really like for all player to answer as soon as possible:

Did you:
a. Remember
b. Forget
c. Never know

that

4) The bad doctors cannot kill you. This is the Princeton-Plainsboro Teaching Hospital, not the Hezbollah recruitment office.

Which is it? A? B? or C?

I remembered that after reading TG's post about the kill. It wasn't at the front of my mind prior to that.

thanks for responding. My suspicion is that he was faking ignorance, but if you missed it than it id probably a red herring.

[Adel]

Something to consider is that Erg0 and Pooky would probably be the hardest to nail as scum.

This seems perjorative to me. I'm not sure about Pooky, but historically I'm just hard to lynch, period.

I'm not disagreeing with you. There seems to be this myth that scum are illogical.

Inconsistant

, perhaps, but the way I see it individual

players

areeither logical or illogical in their thoughts and/or postings. I'm ever weary of logically-challenged & rather defenseless townies getting lynched. For the couple of pages I've began to wonder if Jive Machine falls into the later category. I am certain that armix does not.

[Adel]

vollkan: meta dean and get back to us with the results and a corrected % figure, if you don't mind.

[Adel]

Erg0 - what kind of a meta read do you have on Jive Machine?

[Adel]

Erg0 - what kind of a meta read do you have on Jive Machine?

also, why are you so active on mafiascum.net outside of this thread?

[Adel]

Ever hear of a mislynch? I know you have. In my experience, the best way to ensure a mislynch, especially early in a game, is to pressure an inexperienced player until they make a mistake. They pretty much lynch themselves at that point. Since I am feeling that Jive machine is more likely town than scum at this point, that leaves me with the conclusion that you are scummier than Pooky. I hope I don't offend Pooky by this, but I think that our playstyles have some aspects in common, or at least enough for me to understand that Pooky behavior is more of a null-tell than a scum-tell, especially this early in a game.

[Adel]

vote: armix

i thought it was already there.

Probably was - Albert

[Adel]

vote: if no new mod appears within 96 hours (four days) of ABR's last post, we abandon

[Adel]

does that mean we can lynch armix now?

[Adel]

I still think that both scum are in team LU.

[Adel]

Why no graph, Adel?

I'm tracking a few things, and I may present my finding if I see something conclusive in the data. It doesn't look too promising at this point.

[Adel]

Oh please lynch Adel...

says the person who laid the "accidental" hammer... after posting a vote summery for all of the involved players... which included some conversation about armix being at lynch -1. Believable?

[Adel]

Assuming that during the next phase we'll have to vote for someone on our own team, Beep! Beep! is going to Hang! Hang!

That is all.

[Adel]

plus, I don't buy that it was a mistake.

[Adel]

so.. was armix scum?

[Adel]

I feel like I should vote someone now.

Vote: Beep! Beep!

I endorse that action.

[Adel]

I support CKD as the leader... but I will accept the position if offered.

[Adel]

This is my 2124th game post. As Team Leader or Assistant Team Leader
I would support systemically interrogating each doctor individually abut their posts during day 1.
All other Doctors would barrage him with questions and refuse to budge until all questions were answered. I would support Trust Gossip or Shaft.ed as the first target of such an interrogation.
I am qualified for either of these positions because I like to torture people and I have successfully lynched scum in this game. By actively seeking such a position I draw attention to myself and make myself an obvious target for attack. I am not trying to blend in or keep a low profile. If elected I would produce results: lynched scum.

[Adel]

TG: this game isn't a normal mini.

Town doesn't get that heady and powerhungry. It seems more like you thought your bus was successful.

You are attacking a player for being in on a successful lynch. Who was the player we lynched? armix. That doesn't compute. He is a good player.
If you want to identify scum look at Beep! Beep!'s wagon.

'f it.

vote: TrustGossip.

[Adel]

[quote="Erg0"][quote="Adel"]TG: this game isn't a normal mini.

[quote]Town doesn't get that heady and powerhungry. It seems more like you thought your bus was successful.[/quote]
You are attacking a player for being in on a successful lynch. Who was the player we lynched? armix. That doesn't compute. He is a good player.
If you want to identify scum look at Beep! Beep!'s wagon.

'f it. [b]vote: TrustGossip.[/b][/quote]

First: What are you voting for?

Second: Didn't you say on the last page that you [i]supported[/i] the Beep wagon?[/quote]

Yep, the placement of his vote on armix's wagon seemed pretty scummy to me and then he attacked me, so I threw in my two cents to try to speed his lynch. Attacking me is a scumtell

[Adel]

The woman who carries a cod next to her liver is likely to remain free from cold. Your point?

[Adel]

The woman who carries a cod next to her liver is likely to remain free from cold. Your point?

But she isn't. It's codliver oil. At least my metaphor made sense...

A cod is a big heavy fish. If you carry one you will burn a lot of calories, which will help keep you warm. Also,

Cod liver oil is a nutritional supplement that is derived from cod livers. It has high levels of the omega-3 fatty acids, EPA and DHA, and very high levels of vitamin A, and vitamin D. It is widely taken to ease the symptoms of arthritis. It was commonly given to children.
...
Cod liver oil is widely taken to ease the pain and joint stiffness associated with arthritis,[1] but has also been clinically proven to have a positive effect on heart,[2][3] bone,[4] and brain,[5] as well as helping to nourish skin,[6] hair, and nails.

Cod liver oil and fish oil are similar, but cod liver oil has much higher levels of vitamins A and D. Many adults don't meet the RDA for Vitamin D.[7][8][9][10]

In 2005, a study by researchers at the University of California found that Vitamin D may lower the risk of developing different types of cancers, halving the chances of getting breast, ovarian, and colon cancers.[11]

Use of cod liver oil during pregnancy is associated with lower risk of Type I diabetes in the offspring.[12] This effect was found only in mothers taking cod liver oil, not in mothers taking multivitamin supplements. Cod liver oil taken by nursing mothers improves the breast milk by increasing the amount of fatty acids, which promotes brain development, and the amount of vitamin A, which helps prevent infections, but the level of vitamin D is unchanged.

so the pun point out that cod liver oil helps prevent some common illnesses.

Mine not only makes sense, but it is also true.

[Adel]

Is 4.5-11.3 kg really

that

heavy?

well I bet when the saying was developed it was more like 15 kg to 35 kg on average.

[Adel]

FRANKLY SPEAKING, LYNCHING BEEP BEEP BEFORE WE KNEW ARMLX'S ALIGNMENT FOR SURE IS INCREDIBLY BAD BAD PLAY.

didn't the mod say that alignments wouldn't be revealed until two doctors were fired?

[Adel]

I will only support myself or ckd for leader. We lynched scum.

[Adel]

how about each person cast three votes, and the first person to get nine votes wins?

[Adel]

yes.

[Adel]

3 curiouskarmadog

[Adel]

Fos everyone who posted in other games while not voting for a leader in this game. Does anyone want to do the gruntwork of identifying those players?

vote: Trustgossip

for a lynch.

[Adel]

um, because Shaft.ed + TrustGossip = scum group?

[Adel]

@ Pooky: I like childern
@ ckd: read pooky's last two posts again. TrustGossip should be our lynch choice for today, but they will try to puch this Pooky wagon as hard as they can in the meantime.

[Adel]

he isn't scum with pooky.

[Adel]

it is always tricky stating a case against your scumbuddy without bussing him and while sounding sincere. Good job.

[Adel]

Can people start voting allready? I don't like how almost everyone is sitting back and waiting.

Please vote.

[Adel]

vollkan is town in this game.
so is ckd.
pooky probably is as well.
TrustGossip is getting better at mafia right before our eyes.

shaft.ed isn't dense, but he is acting the part. what does that mean?

[Adel]

I think armix hesitated to vote for Jive Machine because he was afraid that his vote placement (hammer) would make his partner look more scummy. Who was the second person to vote for Jive Machine?

[Adel]

Team NLU

Beep! 3 - TG, Erg0, Armix

Volkan 1 - Pooky

Not voting:

Thanatos

Armix was FIRED. He was a

bad doctor.

Beep! Beep! was FIRED. He was a

good doctor.

ok, so Erg0 and Trust Gossip were the two other players on Beep!'s wagon.

I think it is time to think about why TG would ask for replacement, and if it is a scumtell.

FoS

Erg0 for voteplacement.

[Adel]

oh, he didn't ask for replacement in this game. is that a scumtell?

[Adel]

volkan - good doc
pooky - good doc
ckd - good doc
adel - obvious good doc

TG, Shaft.ed, Erg0, Near each have 50% chance of being an accurate lynch target.

[Adel]

I think vollkan was a good choice.. since we do not have nks, I thin it is best to clear the person who would best benifit our chances of success, and vollkan is active and rational. good job ckd.

[Adel]

volkan - good doc
pooky - good doc
ckd - good doc
adel - obvious good doc

TG, Shaft.ed, Erg0, Near each have 50% chance of being an accurate lynch target.

qft

[Adel]

I say we lynch TG and quick. His posts are full of noise and he has a very good chance of being scum.

Near is a newbie so I would feel bad about quickly lynching him.
I like reading shaft.ed's posts, so I want him to be in the game longer.
Erg0 is supposed to be a very strong player according to other players I respect, so I'm interested in seeing what else he will add to this game.

So let us lynch TG, and quick!

[Adel]

I can't answer it, actually, because those games have not finished yet.

[Adel]

near, why don't you hammer TG so we can call it a day?

[Adel]

I think armix hesitated to vote for Jive Machine because he was afraid that his vote placement (hammer) would make his partner look more scummy. Who was the second person to vote for Jive Machine?

What makes you think that he hesitated? His hammer came pretty quickly after I put the second vote on (in terms of the number of posts in between).

bah, I didn't want to answer that question because it exposes my folly: I thought it was a long time like a couple of days. I typed that theory out of memory instead of taking the 60 seconds to check my facts.

[Adel]

Adel why did you try to push that off to an ongoing game? Seems rather trivial to lie about.

I knew he was active from other games we are in.

[Adel]

And it is pretty standard to dodge a question by saying that you aren't going to cite ongoing games.

[Adel]

1.) Erg0 50
2.) curiouskarmadog 45
3.) Near 10
4.) vollkan 60
5.) PookyTheMagicalBear 65
6.) Adel 55
7.) shaft.ed 40

[Adel]

it isn't my Real Life^tm age.

[Adel]

I died while I was L/A, thanks a lot everyone.

that will learn ya to go on vacation.

[Adel]

vote:shaft.Ed

[Adel]

If you had access to the thread for the scummies 2007 judges I'd link you to where BM was talking about you when we were talking about who should get the best newbie scummy.

[Adel]

I do like reading your post. You keep them short and to the point. You could choose to blather on for hundreds of words at a time, but you don't.

[Adel]

I'm pretty sold on shaft.Ed being scum.

I'll make any townie a deal: you give me links to 10 games where shaft.Ed got lynched and I'll give you an exhaustive comparative analysis of how he defends himself against a wagon, with alignment as the independent variable. Unlike my previous approaches I will produce both a coherent methodology to identify

unvote

expect details in about an hour while I write it up.

[Adel]

that is it? wtf? just a deadline?

vote shaft.ed

nevermind.

[Adel]

seriously? ...

seriously?

[Adel]

seriously?

[Adel]

unvote, vote:near

proving that "too townie" can be a valid tell!

[Adel]

mod

: can I ask Near how old he is in real life now that we moved on to another phase?

[Adel]

*sigh* I was pretty dissapointed with Dr. Who..

There is nothing consistant in my playstyle. I be eccenteric and erratic.

[Adel]

Near: how old are you?

unvote

[Adel]

unvote, vote: Erg0

[Adel]

Come up with a demeaning nickname for all of your fellow doctors. It has to be 3 words or less.

fucking tools

[Adel]

pookythemagicalbear- cum bear
CKD- dilt
vollkan- shit shovel
Erg0- nud suck

You left out Shafted - Albert

[Adel]

shaf.ed - mechanical suit

[Adel]

Come up with demeaning nicknames for all of your fellow doctors. Each nickname must be three words or less.

[Adel]

you will, you mechanical suit.

[Adel]

Adel you're not even trying, those aren't personalize at all.

pooky- Cummy Bear (remake of Adel's)

everyone, come look at the silly mechanical suit and laugh!

[Adel]

no objection from me.

Dice roll.....

Original Roll String: 2d2-2

2 2-Sided Dice: (2, 2)-2 = 2

-Albert

[Adel]

vote: shaft.ed

I'm also willing to vote Erg0
I can probably be talked into voting for Pooky.

ckd and vollkan are as good as confirmed townie to me.

[Adel]

ckd is that townie for me.

[Adel]

damn, I got Ergo and Shaft.ed mixed up. I incorrectly recalled the lynch choice at deadline as being between shaft.ed and Near...

unvote, vote: Erg0

suggested lynch order:
1. erg0
2. pooky
3. shafted
4. adel
5. ckd
6. vollkan

[Adel]

well, i think i'm a little more scummy than ckd, from an objective point of view.

[Adel]

whatever, it isn't going to come to that, so it doesn't really matter.

[Adel]

It only matters in the sense that you chose for some reason to put yourself above ckd in the lynch order.

i suspect that trying to post from an "objective" p.o.v. has soemthing to do with it.

[Adel]

I love it when scum mistake me for an easy target! It is probably the most rewarding aspect of my current playstyle. I'm sold on Erg0 being an accurate lynch.

[Adel]

eh, I have pooky in the same category as Anix: damned annoying lurkers who intentionally avoid anything that might somehow indicate their alignment. I consider their lynch to be equivalent to throwing the dice for a lynch.

[Adel]

I would be more than happy for the town to all choose between myself and Erg0 for today's lynch.

[Adel]

Because I do not at all suspect that it may be a false dilemma. I'm sold on you being scum, and that there are enough other bright players that your lynch will happen easily.

[Adel]

er, no. Vollkan and ckd and shaft.ed and pooky are

bright

. I'm not in a town of morons. I have been before.

[Adel]

My guess is that you're expecting them to look back at our respective voting records and lynch me based on that - which would explain why you're not giving a case on me. That comment on others' intelligence is exactly the kind of manipulative phrasing that I'm voting you for.

That kind of opportunistic recycling of rhetorical rubbish is another great reason to vote for you.

[Adel]

have you ever been this combative as town before?

[Adel]

hating them and lynching them are two separate things. I've never (in a completed game) lynched someone for lurking.

[Adel]

I think we may want to beat the twist. We have this one in the bag, I'd rather avoid the result of dice.

[Adel]

talk about trying to change the subject, he is like "lets talk about people other than me you think are scummy" did anyone notice him implying that he could settle on lynching pooky with me?

[Adel]

um, because changing his vote would change the outcome of the day, much.

[Adel]

vote:nud suck

[Adel]

bomb: hospital

You can't vote your nicknames. Vote for players.

dude, you should give me an extra vote for being so quick to go with your theme. It demonstrates that I am clever and motivated to cooperate with you and the spirit you have for your game. By blatantly brown-nosing like this I'm totally in character, as I have been all game. You should reward me by giving me an extra vote so that I can hammer Erg0 with it. Pretty please? I am very charming and convincing, and you want to give me an extra vote *voodoo* it was always your idea to give the first person to use a nickname with a vote an extra vote. So my second vote counts, right?

[Adel]

Write me a poem and I'll consider giving a day-kill....

nud sud (Erg0) and his horse-suddin' nud-smell
croaked just after messing with Adel
'ause I'm foul w/ a grin
close to one Olsen twin
and I ring that bitch's head like a bell

[Adel]

I have a daykill.

[Adel]

I'm not killing Erg0 with it because he asked nicely, but I call dibbs.

[Adel]

Holy shit Adel your poem sucked.

I never claimed

poet

. Fuck poetry, I'm a doctor!

[Adel]

daykill: Erg0

that is how Dr. House would want it done. Nice and neat.

Give them a little window of hope there at the end, and then put them down.

[Adel]

feel free to cut 'n paste your case against me if you really are town. I expect to see your death scene any moment.

[Adel]

do you want to try killing me now?

KILL: Erg0

[Adel]

KILL:

Erg0

now?

[Adel]

I agree with Pooky's idea that we should just end the day, and quickly before more killing occurs.

vote:Pooky

[Adel]

unvote, vote: no lynch

I think that is a better idea, and we can debate who is scum during the FTA. The scum on't have anyone to PM, so he won't have that advantage.

[Adel]

vote: Albert B. Rampag

[Adel]

unvote, vote:Pookye

[Adel]

giving at least one townie a dayklill and one scum a daykill made sense to me... and I had no idea if the scum's daykill was one shot or not. If Erg0 had claimed to not have a daykill I would've waited to kill him.

[Adel]

Some of you have been given a single day-kill ability

I'm glad that I'm not the only person that can't read. I missed the word "single".

[Adel]

500 word inditement of Adel

I could do a wall-of-words point by point retort. I don't feel like it, but I'm willing to if ckd and vollkan ask me to. As a possible alternative, quote any argument you find to be particulary compelling and I'll respond to that.

[Adel]

On day 1, Adel was the second vote on armlx's lynch, apparently following ckd. She did push him a bit after she voted, but she never directly called for a hammer as she does on day 2 with TG. She also approved of the Beep! wagon for most of the day (see below).

I still think that the armix lynch should pretty much clear me, it would be so easy as scum to lynch any other player. I suppose the meta could be at one of those weird places where scum are expected to buss day 1

even when it only takes three players to lynch.

On day 2 she pushes the TG wagon all the way to the bank, partially based on what I think is fallacious logic (again, see below).

magic is to magick as logic is to logick

I use logick because it works better.

On day 3 she started off being certain that shaft.ed was scum, switched to Near for very little reason and then unvoted altogether and apparently let the clock run out. I'm not sure whether the late vote was deliberate or accidental, but I don't see this as a tell for reasons I've already explained.

I often play with wagons. I feel like I've gotten good at identifying when a wagon is scum powered or not, but it takes some experimentation to determine if that is the case. I believe that I unvoted in preperation of a vote on someone unexpected.

- She spent a lot of time talking about how scummy Jive around the time the teams were split (29, 31, 33). In 44 she's less sure, thinking he might be befuddled town, then in 46 she asks me for a meta read on him (possibly because I was in another game with him at the time). I don't believe she ever comments on my response that he seems different from the other game. In 48 she says again that she thinks Jive is town, but after Beep comes in and drops the hammer she implies in 54 that she doesn't believe his vote was accidental, then says in 55 that she wants to lynch him tomorrow. After I put the second vote on him, she says in 58 that she endorses my vote. By post 61 she's swung around, saying "If you want to identify scum look at Beep! Beep!'s wagon", then discredits her own case in 62 when I point out that she supported the wagon, but again doesn't move her vote. She eventually pushes TG's wagon all the way to lynch.
- In post 78 she advances the theory that armlx delayed his hammer to give his buddy some breathing room. Again I point out that this is incorrect and she goes for the ongoing game defence before eventually admitting that she didn't check her facts.

all of this sounds pretty typical for my behavior as town, even the last part.

- Case against me today has been one strawman or vague condemnation after another. She's using what I call the "stick and move" approach, throwing as much stuff as the she can think of at me and then dropping the points that I successfully refute (e.g. "easy target" comment in 118, false dilemma in 120, meaningless drivel in 123, poor attempt at a meta in 124, ignoring my response to craplogic from 127). You can't lose an argument if you refuse to engage the other person, I suppose.

and that is nothing compared to when I really try to lynch someone.
I prefer "stick and move" to "bog down and out type"

Her failure to follow up on post 124, where she asks "have you ever been this combative as town before?", is the biggest problem here. I deliberately replied without an example to see if she'd follow up, and she just let it drop.

how could I possibly prove the counter-factual? We could bicker over the meaning of "combative" for pages alone.

Someone who was interested in lynching the right player (as opposed to just lynching anyone) would have asked for an example there rather than just taking my word for it.

good players easily avoid trapping themselves with blatant lies.

This is exemplary of her entire case on me: she's making it up as she goes along, and shaping others' opinions through simple repetition rather than actual evidence.

all part of getting your target lynched.

- Adel says in 41 that she thinks that Pooky and I would be toughest to nail as scum. She later says in 84 that I'm "supposed to be a very strong player according to other players [she] respect

", the basis for which is later clarified as being BM's comments in the Scummies judging. This leads me to wonder what the basis for post 41 was, since it was made much earlier in the game, likely before BM would have made such a comment.

the scummies forum opened much earlier than Erg0 apparently was aware of. It was opened the same day as the summies 2007 nomination thread was locked. Go ahead and compare the dates.

I've played with Adel before, but if she hadn't arrived at a conclusion about my ability based on those games (apparently relying on BM's comments instead) then where did 41 come from? A comment like this out of the blue just raises my defences.

what games? Perhaps one of the games where I was killed day 1 and stopped watching, or one of our active games... I'll ask him about it after the game ends, I must've skimmed over this part initially.

- In post 86, Adel tells a floundering Near to hammer TG. Less than 20 (game) posts later, Near does just that. Circumstantial, but notable.

I suppose that could be considered budding up as easily as it could be the coincidence I took it for.

[Adel]

Is it likely that the scum would all try to get on the one team?

yes, emphatically.

[Adel]

Why?

Basic game theory. Under the assumption that the teams would last for a number of days before being recombines, the tactics seem clear to me.

[Adel]

Always concentrate your forces when not subjected to area effects or when it risks revealing your position.

You easily could've bussed a member of NLU and/or lynched faster if you had a member on NLU.

[Adel]

This isn't a real time strategy game involving armies going to war.

How would I know what the twist would be prior to team arrangement?

you wouldn't, but concentrating your forces would be a better ideas for a majority of possible contingencies. Go ahead and list all of them and count -- you will find that I am right.

[Adel]

Pooky.

it was pretty easy to predict that the groups would effect voting, with each group voting its own members off being the most likely effect.

[Adel]

I just reread day 1. Wow do trust gossip and Erg0 seem scummy to me.

I still think that both scum are in team LU.

You win when all three of the bad doctors are fired.

I think if all three were on a team we'd have at least one lynch by now.

thinking...

[Adel]

@shaft: do you mean to ask what my current estimation of his scumminess is?

[Adel]

Then armlx had a bit of a melt down trying to claim he was using a strategy similar to yours early D1 to explain away some of his voting patterns, which was obviously a stretch at best. Then CKD seemed to be committed to a vote given his earlier comments.

Just curious what you thought of it since your original plan seemed to be 1) CKD has a correct hunch or 2) you would try forcing CKD from distancing to bus'ing.

I know later on CKD explained his hunch, but I haven't been able to find that post yet. If anyone sees it please post it so I can reread that section as well.

I don't remember ckd explaining his hunch. I can't buy that ckd would bus his partner on day 1 and then

not

bus his other partner when he had the investigation power.

I'm still pretty solid on Pooky being scum.

[Adel]

uh, no. I'm not too confident in shaft.ed being a good doctor.

[Adel]

@ Pooky, I think it would be in everyone's best interest if you choose between me and shaft.ed before CKD and vollkan weigh in.

[Adel]

shaft.ed's agreement with my assessment agrees with me.

[Adel]

I'd rather lynch adel that shafted.

damn.

that means
Adel --wants to lynch--> Pooky
Pooky --wants to lynch--> Adel
shaft.ed --wants to lynch--> Adel

so if even just one out of vollkan and ckd wants to lynch me I'm a goner.

~~~

@ckd and vollkan: what can I say? If you want one game in my defense, check out http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1400 where the town had to choose between mos-scum and me, and then had to choose between adele-scum and me.

[Adel]

Adel, with your last second Ergo vote, it looks like you had just logged in as you have one other post in a newbie game at 5:39 and that one is at 5:41. Could you tell me what your intent was with that vote?

are you talking about my second daykill attempt?

[Adel]

@ckd if you are scum you rock.

[Adel]

I don't know.

[Adel]

I'm town, so you had better lynch someone quick, and be correct in it.

vote: pooky

just in case it helps

[Adel]

'k

unvote, vote:shaft.ed

[Adel]

unvote, vote:pooky

[Adel]

if shaft.ed was scum i figure he would've killed by now. pooky lurked through the game and then tried to nail ckd for the win. how much of a reread is really necessary?

[Adel]

how was pooky shooting CKD less of an out that if he killed you, vollkan? By any normal read, as I've been saying for days now, CKD was confirmed.

[Adel]

between the day 1 lynch and the investigation of vollkan i felt that ckd was solid.

Why do you seem so hurried?

because I'm sure that I'm going to lose this game because I was an idiot for killing Erg0. Frustration. Pooky did the same damn thing in Lost Boys mafia, and I consider lurking into the scum win to both be a powerful way to achieve victory as well as a cheap way to do it.

[Adel]

I totally messed up by living until endgame. The playstyle I used in this game is optimized for drawing the NK and the attention of overeager scum that will out themselves by lynching me. I feel like I've lost this game for the town and the more I type at this point the more damage I do.
I'll take the blame for this loss.

[Adel]

I felt that pooky would catch enough static for lurking that I didn't have to press the matter, and since I didn't have a tell against pooky I pressed the case against those I was the most suspicious of.

My playstyle choice was one of habit, not analysis.

[Adel]

looks pretty accurate to me.

[Adel]

that sounds pretty accurate as well.

[Adel]

OK Adel. You've stated earlier that you weren't supposed to live this long. However, your reason for killing Erg0 was effectively self defense. It seems that Erg0 killing you would have gotten what you wanted, his death, if you felt he was scum at the time. Care to clear up the contradiction?

I shot without thinking it through. I knew i had one shot, and I thought Erg0 was scum, he said that he had a daykill, so I quickly killed him.

Scum with daykill = bad. Dead scum with unused day kill = good. That is what was present in my mind. I should've faked it.

[Adel]

this will teach me to not be active and involved.. better to lurk then try erratic behavior in hope of getting things stirred up and scum exposed.

"39: Rejects armlx's play of acting scummy

Odd that she of all people would be so quick to call bullshit on a claim of intentionally chaotic play

"
probably because I am familiar with it I can tell if it is sincere or not. Notice how armix really lost wind after I called ullshit. Even though ckd beat me to the armix wagon I felt his lynch was my success.

[Adel]

did you catch on before or after I pointed it out?

[Adel]

I meant before I pointed it out during day 1...

[Adel]

at this point I don't have a case on Pooky. I just don't. I can string one together with bullshit, but as I see it the choice for y'all is between me being me and Pooky keeping a low profile.
Our daykills pretty much balance each other out.
My lynch of armix doesn't count for squat due to the high likelihood of me bussing a scumpartner.

The only thing I feel I can point to in my defense is that I just don't play this way when I am scum...

except that Pooky can point to the game where she replaced me where I played so shitty and was so poorly coordinated with my partners that when the mod offered out of the blue to replace me I gladly accepted.

So, am I competent scum playing in a way I haven't successfully played before, or am I incompetent scum who played in a scummy way all game? Or am I town playing in a manner that I have successfully played as town in recent games?

[Adel]

The only thing I feel I can point to in my defense is that I just don't play this way when I am scum...

If you can give me a link to a representative game or two as scum I'll give it a read. I do find it odd that you would propose to have two clearly discernable play styles as town and scum.

nobody is ever going to lynch me for being "too townie" when I am scum. After sacrificing myself in mini 458 to keep MoS from getting the doctor's protection, I haven't been lynched as scum. All of my games on on my wiki page, except for the lost boys which just hasn't made it on yet.
It is often in my interest to draw a lynch or NK when I am town aligned. My play as town is pretty consistent, and my play as scum is pretty consistent.

[Adel]

I think I've survived the same number of times as town and scum, actually.

[Adel]

only this:

I would like it to be by Shafted Daykill rather than a lynch.

ditto.

unvote

[Adel]

it still bothers be that being active and trying so hard to get reactions out of people and keep scum off balance is what is going to make me lose to a passive player who coasted to a late daykill of a non-scummy player and a win.

[Adel]

why would you kill CKD and not shaft.ed with your daykill again?

How was CKD more scummy than shaft.ed?

[Adel]

why would you kill Erg0 and not shaft.ed with your daykill again?

How was Erg0 more scummy than shaft.ed?

as measued by votecount I thought it was clear.

[Adel]

I feel like I am responsible for this loss. For some reason I thought that ABR would reward a quick trigger finger, and I stopped thinking in this game for a number of critical pages. I was lazy and made mistakes and lost, too bad other people had to lose with me.

I had no idea that shaft.ed didn't have a day kill... I made the mistake of assuming he did. Lazy.

[Adel]

I really liked it initially. Was the daykill twist an original part of the setup? Are you going to post all of the twist mechanics and explain those die rolls?

[Adel]

by the way, great win shaft.ed. you really pulled it out there, You were the person I appealed to since I thought you were the most likely to see reason. oops.

[Adel]

@Claus and ABR: do you think that shaft.ed's performance was scummy worthy?

1 scum player vs. vollkan, ckd, ergo, pooky and me should have little or no chance of winning.

[Adel]

your avatar at the time and the show "Entourage" inspired the name "mechanical suit"

[Adel]

But my avatar was a sorcerer from Brotherhood of the Vizjerei

lol, it just looked to me like a cartoony mecha.

[Adel]

IMHO when you are confirmed town and ou have a opinion on a subject i think it is best to collect everyone else's opinion before stating your own.