Mafia 74: Minimally Flavoured - Game over!

[Phate]

Cow, why did you unvote? Surely you were voting DS because you thought he was scum. Why then would his being replaced matter?

Mills, why are you so quick to follow suit?

[liamcool]

Because it's common courtesy to give any replacement at least a chance to defend themselves first.

[hasdgfas]

Because it's common courtesy to give any replacement at least a chance to defend themselves first.

Yes, that is exactly it. Sometimes there's just an idiot playing and the replacement makes a lot more sense and you change your view of things

[PJ.]

You shouldn't unvote, and if you voted because disciple slayer was a moron then your probably being oppurtunistic. In my opinion, most of the DS wagon was oppurtunistic because he simply was easy.

Between the attacks and unvote I would like to

FoS:Cow

and say that I'm exetremely happy My vote is on Mills.

[OhGodMyLife]

OK, Xyl, you've more than reassured me, so thank you for addressing that. The biggest reason for my vote was because I think the DS bandwagon and constant talk of egruntz' no-lynch theory were consuming too much of the town's attention and I wanted to get people to look elsewhere.

Unvote, Vote: Mills

I'm still of the opinion that the way the bandwagon started was BS, which was my original reason for voting mills. Since then he's made some good points on other matters, specifically CKD, who still needs to respond to the issues brought up. However, in the past few pages Mills has been extremely overreactive, and having done a reread of his posts from the beginning, the way he started the DS bandwagon still looks scummier than hell.

[Snaps_the_Pirate]

Ahoy mates.
Sorry I haven't been around lately. Real life has kept me busy for the past few days.

Welcome to the game Eteocles.

Disciple Slayer was my strongest suspect. Common sense would say that mafia would be careful to hide any tells, so anyone being obvious must be town. The problem with this type of thinking is that it encourages scummy behavior making it even more difficult to distinguish scum from town. Everything Disciple Slayer has done has looked scummy. He has placed his vote on bandwagons with no explanation, refused to contribute anything meaningful and lurked excessively. My vote will stay put. Disciple Slayer dug himself into a pretty deep hole and Eteocles has inherited my suspicion of him.

Dark Ermac is my second highest suspect.

It's better to think about the vote than it is to just vote for them because they seem scummy. Believe me when I say this: he's town. I may not be 100% accurate, but from past experiences I know this.

I disagree with the first part of this post. If a person seems scummy we should vote for them. If we allow scummy actions from any player, then we are giving the mafia more hiding places. We need to use the first few days to strip away the places that mafia traditionaly hide. Lurking, mindless bandwagoning etc. The second part of this post, he says that he knows Disciple Slayer is town. How could he possibly know that? Only mafia could be so sure.

The way I word things is... I guess you could say it's a bit scummy, but that's just the way I type.

His defense is "I'm not scum, I just write that way" Pretty weak.

Mills attempts to defend Dark Ermac in posts 231 and 239.

Don't get me wrong - I think I was the first to jump on DE for some earlier post with the same problem - but I'm just not feeling it here. I don't think he's unequivocally saying that he knows that egruntz is town. I think he is saying that he knows (for lack of a better word). It's just something deep down inside that he knows to be true (or something he thinks he knows). He's just using the wrong word but its more the fault of the English language than his own.

I have reread Dark Ermac's posts over and over. I have to disagree with Mills. It doesn’t sound like he says he thinks he knows, it sounds like he knows.

I find it suspicious that Dark Ermac has yet to post how he knows or to confirm Mills theory that he only thinks he knows.
This isn't the only time he has failed to come forward and clear up what he is actually trying to say. See the exchange between Mills and Hasdgfas (posts 191 - 204). There was a misunderstanding of what Dark Ermac meant in post 45. Dark Ermac has had the oppertunity to explain, yet he chose not to.

I would be perfectly willing to change my vote to Dark Ermac from Disciple Slayer if it is needed to lynch him. Both are ultra suspicious in my eyes.

[Elias_the_thief]

The Eighth Official Flavorless Votecount:

Eteocles - 3

(Snaps the pirate, Xylthixlm, egruntz)

Mills - 3

(panzerjager, Bookitty, OhGodMyLife)

OhGodMyLife - 2

(the fonz, Phate)

Bookitty - 1

(eteocles)

egruntz - 1

(Xyzzy)

liamcool - 1

(patch15)

Xylthixlm - 0

Snaps the pirate - 0

The Fonz - 0

panzerjager - 0

Xyzzy - 0

Hasdgfas - 0

Sangy - 0

curiouskarmadog - 0

Phate - 0

SensFan - 0

Dark Ermac - 0

patch15 - 0

Nobody - 7

(SensFan, Dark Ermac, sangy, liamcool, curiouskarmadog, Hasdgfas, Mills)

With 18 alive, it will take 10 to lynch.

---

Replacing: Sensfan, Mills (at his request)

[Phate]

Wow. That's not suspicious at at all.

Unvote
Vote: Mills

[Mills]

I sent this to Elias.

"Please replace me. I don't have the patience for the play styles on this forum (which for the most part seem to be 'disappear for several days at a time'). Sorry for any inconvenience."

Ultimately I suppose it doesn't concern me if you choose to think I'm lying and lynch whoever replaces in - I won't be posting again.

Good luck everyone.

[Phate]

This isn't necessarily a scumtell, but it's ironic: I like how he's blaming his flaking on inactivity.

[OhGodMyLife]

I sent this to Elias.

"Please replace me. I don't have the patience for the play styles on this forum (which for the most part seem to be 'disappear for several days at a time'). Sorry for any inconvenience."

Ultimately I suppose it doesn't concern me if you choose to think I'm lying and lynch whoever replaces in - I won't be posting again.

Good luck everyone.

*facepalm*

[Bookitty]

I still regard Mills as the scummiest, and his exit from the game doesn't improve that any. Additionally, his reason for leaving seems like a very weak excuse.

I feel for whoever his replacement is.

[PJ.]

His replacement is lynched. There is no excuse for such scummy behavior and if we let all this go it would be, as Snaps would say, letting the scum have nice big hiding spaces.

To me this ensures that he is scummy, he simply has had a meltdown and is kicking and screaming so he packed up his toys and went home. I believe this meltdown to be pressure induced.

The people that are accusing him have not been leaving for several days(except for Phate) I have been the only one that has been stron on his wagon and the most days I have been gone is i think 2..since this game started. And so what if people disappear for up a day or two? It doesn't hurt the game that much and people do have lives outside of MS.

[Eteocles]

Yeah, I am feeling kinda lazy. Anyone want to fill me in on some key posts I should be paying attention to?

[Xylthixlm]

I did a reread of the last few pages, with notes.

My read of Mills went from protown to undecided in the last 3 pages. His appeals to emotion and personal attacks aren't helpful.

Mills's unvote was unnecessary. Disciple Slayer was only at 5 by my count. It's better to keep the pressure.

Eteocles, you'd better read the whole game. Disciple Slayer dug you a very big hole.

hasdgfas, were you voting Disciple Slayer because he's an idiot or because he was scummy? If the first, why? If the second, why unvote?

Phate, I can't figure out what post 307 is referencing. Maybe you meant Mills's unvote but you responded to that in post 300. Explain.

Bookitty claims she didn't think egruntz was scum when she voted him, but at the time she called has actions "scummy". Not a contradiction, but it makes me suspicious. She later threatened to vote Mills or Disciple Slayer for reasons unrelated to scumminess in post 136.

I still don't understand the reason for Bookitty's attack on Mills in post 260. There's a lot of words, but it comes down to "Something isn't adding up here." The defensive overreaction only came after Bookitty's attack.

[Phate]

I was responding to the modpost, and news of Mills' replacement.

Replacing: Sensfan, Mills (at his request)

[hasdgfas]

Because he was being both an idiot

and

scummy.
I voted him because both I thought he was scum and trying to lurk to victory, and because I wasn't liking his playstyle.

The unvote is because he was replaced, and it's common courtesy to give the replacement a little time to get used to the game. However, Eteocles being lazy is making me want to put my vote back on him. He needs to read the game and actually say what he thinks. If it's not good enough, he gets voted. When someone replaces in for someone I'm voting for, I

always

unvote them until they start saying something. If I don't like their contribution, they get voted again.

[Snaps_the_Pirate]

I sent this to Elias.

"Please replace me. I don't have the patience for the play styles on this forum (which for the most part seem to be 'disappear for several days at a time'). Sorry for any inconvenience."

Ultimately I suppose it doesn't concern me if you choose to think I'm lying and lynch whoever replaces in - I won't be posting again.

Good luck everyone.

Wow, I didn’t see that coming.
I didn’t have much suspicion on Mills, but I think Panzerjager is right. He appears to have had a pressure meltdown. The “attacks” on him were reasonable and not any more aggressive than his own.

Mills, if you are reading this, please grow some thicker skin before your next mafia game.

Yeah, I am feeling kinda lazy. Anyone want to fill me in on some key posts I should be paying attention to?

Posts like this do nothing to reduce my suspicion that was passed on to Eteocles from Disciple Slayer. Eteocles is still my highest suspect.


I see Dark Ermac still hasn’t responded to the questions I raised in post 305.


Snaps current FoS list in order of most suspicious:
Eteocles,
Dark Ermac,
Mill’s replacement



Snaps lurker list*:
Patch15 - 3 posts
DarkErmac - 5 posts
Curious Karma Dog - 7 posts
Sangy - 8 posts
Oh God My Life - 11 posts
Sensfan/? - 1 post
Disciple Slayer/Eteocles - 7 posts
The Dragon Princess/Xyzzy - 6 posts

These players have posted less than our mod in this thread. These players are seriously hurting the game. Obviously they can't all be mafia, but the innocents among them are making it easier for the mafia to lurk.

* I am willing to give the replacements the benifit of the doubt, as it was their predecessers who got them onto this list.

[egruntz]

Here's my suspicions, in the order of greatest to least:

1. Disciple Slayer
2. Mills
3. Xylthixlm

Not much, but something. I'm still most suspicious of Disciple Slayer due to jumping from bandwagon to bandwagon. As for Mills, it's very suspicious that he leaves when we were getting on him. Not having the style to play mafia isn't a good enough reason to just run out.

As for Xylth... IDK, I don't like him ;o
No, just playing bro. Bandwagons; but no as bad as DS.

[Bookitty]

@Xylthixlm: I did say that pushing a no-lynch is scummy. That said, I tend to think it's usually a newbtell, regardless of alignment. I got from your arguments that you disagree with that, but I don't think it's a certain tell of egruntz's scum alignment, and I'm just not going to agree with that. I voted for him to underscore my seriousness, not to indicate that I had any certainty he was scum.

As to Mills and Disciple Slayer, I wondered based on their antagonism and over-the-top theatrics at each other (based on another game, something Mills tried to deny, even though it was in his first post on the subject) if they were scum together and staging a scene. That would be a pretty big scumtell, if it were true. I still don't know if that was the case. A meta read on Mills shows that he has acted pretty anti-town even as town, though.

You don't find it odd that Mills attacked Dark Ermac pretty strongly on a semantics issue, and then defended him on a much more telling one?

Hmmm.

Both are sematics issues. Scum are less likely change their minds than townies. Mills's behavior says nothing until we get more info.

This is an inconsistency, though, the kind you said you didn't see. Attacking someone on a minor semantics problem, and then defending them for a major one, is an inconsistency, and one that I felt he needed to address. The Fonz said I would make a "too defensive" argument against Mills, something I didn't do, but I do think Mills' reaction to the case I made against him was extreme. I expected Mills to defend himself. I did not expect him to resort to ad hominem and then ask for replacement. I'm not certain if that's indicative of his alignment, based on my meta of him, but I am certain that the points I made against him remain unaddressed.

[Xylthixlm]

Whether you think it's a major issue depends on how you interpret Dark Ermac's post. "Semantics issues" are like that.

[Xylthixlm]

Mills's defense of Dark Ermac was "I was able to convince myself that it only sounds that way". Definitely a semantics issue.

[Bookitty]

What do you think of the inconsistencies in Mills' reactions that I pointed out earlier?

I don't see them.

Regardless of whether you agree with my case on Mills (and I do think his differing reactions are odd), at least you see the inconsistencies now, since you've addressed some of them and excused them as "Definitely a semantics issue."

[Xylthixlm]

I see one issue which Mills thought was important but you think is just a misinterpretation, and one issue which you think is important but Mills thought was just a misinterpretation. Why is Mills more inconsistent than you?

[Bookitty]

I think that if Mills truly believed that Dark Ermac was scummy in the first instance, and had real suspicions of him, then he should have seen the second one as confirmation of his previous suspicions. Instead, he decided that the second similar (and worse, in my view) "semantics" issue was not suspicious. This seems to indicate that his first suspicions were more feigned than real, since those first suspicions should have resulted in an "I've got my eye on you" attitude, even if he didn't put an IGMEOY on Dark Ermac.

What, in your view, have I done that is similar, Xylthixlm?