Mafia 73: NEGWLTWWWTKY - Abandoned!

[Setael]

The point that he's going for the easist lynch. It's no longer quag, so... BACK TO PEERS.

Hey IH, who's "he" in this sentence? Seems like you'd be referring to me, but I was never in support of the quag lynch, so I'm not really following.

[Albert B. Rampage]

unvote, vote quagmire

[Toaster Strudel]

TS, if neither Quagmire nor MoS are scum, who is your next suspect?

Yosarian, YagamiLight (who no one seems to notice) and now, Setael. Not necessarily in that order. But these are the 3 non-Mos/Quag players I'd lynch.

Do you think Yosarian and hasdgfas are more likely scum if Quagmire does turn out to be town?

I think Yosarian is more likely scum, because maybe he wanted to buddy to read his PM real bad. Maybe. I am beginning to suspect that hasdgfas really didn't understand what was going on. But I may be wrong.

If you think we need to lynch someone as soon as possible (which I think you've implied) do you think that there is any consensus to lynch Quagmire at this point?

There ought to be.

Do you find Peers scummy?

Not enough for me to put my add my name to his lynch.

[Toaster Strudel]

TS, if neither Quagmire nor MoS are scum, who is your next suspect?

Yosarian, YagamiLight (who no one seems to notice) and now, Setael. Not necessarily in that order. But these are the 3 non-Mos/Quag players I'd lynch.

Do you think Yosarian and hasdgfas are more likely scum if Quagmire does turn out to be town?

I think Yosarian is more likely scum, because maybe he wanted to buddy to read his PM real bad. Maybe. I am beginning to suspect that hasdgfas really didn't understand what was going on. But I may be wrong.

If you think we need to lynch someone as soon as possible (which I think you've implied) do you think that there is any consensus to lynch Quagmire at this point?

There ought to be.

Do you find Peers scummy?

Not enough for me to put my add my name to his lynch.

[Toaster Strudel]

Sorry about the double post, my computer hung.

The point that he's going for the easist lynch. It's no longer quag, so... BACK TO PEERS.

Hey IH, who's "he" in this sentence? Seems like you'd be referring to me, but I was never in support of the quag lynch, so I'm not really following.

I was always wondering why you tried to start a wagon on a "dark horse" like Jordan, and I often feel that scum likes to hide behind off-wagon votes. You'll often find, at lynch time, one scum being the single vote on his buddy. So I tend to watch the off-wagon votes, too, but it's a little iffy, I reckon.

I also noted that most of your case against Jordan was because you didn't approve of Jordan's "opportunistic" vote on Quagmire.

Since I was watching your vote closely, I noticed that when you changed it, of all the people you could have picked in order to lynch someone, you could pick from:

5: Peers (YagamiLight, Erg0, hasdgfas, Bookitty, Panzerjager)
4: Kscope (Zu_Faul, Yosarian2, schismatized, MoS)
4: MoS (Kscope, IH, ToasterStrudel, Peers)

You never expressed suspicion of Peers at all.
You defended MoS.
You said this about Kscope: "I haven't said a thing about Kscope, but I'd also vote him if he was in the lead."

Kscope was a good choice for you, he had already 4 votes. But you chose to vote for Peers, who had only a margin of one vote over Kscope.

[Setael]

I just want a lynch. 50 pages and no D1 lynch is ridiculous. I'll even vote Quag at this point if he's the leading wagon, even though I think he's town. Any of them could be scum and anything will give us information.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why don't you just pressure vote him for a claim ?

[Bookitty]

I think Yosarian is more likely scum, because maybe he wanted to buddy to read his PM real bad. Maybe. I am beginning to suspect that hasdgfas really didn't understand what was going on. But I may be wrong.

If Quagmire is town, then Yosarian has no vested interest in having him read his role PM other than the same one all of us do, that it's not helpful to town for Quagmire not to read his role PM.

If Quagmire is scum, then MoS and hasdgfas (and Yosarian, I guess, though the linkage is not quite so strong) are unlikely to be his scumbuddies, because they've linked themselves far too closely. (WIFOM, but this is my opinion.) If Quagmire is town, then MoS, hasdgfas, and Yosarian (any or all) may well be scum, because they would be seeking townie points for defending someone who is town. (The reason I voted hasdgfas in the first place, if you recall.)

So I'm not following your logic here. It's less likely they're all scum defending their buddy, not more likely, in my view. I think there's likely scum somewhere in the mix we mentioned, and maybe it is Quagmire, but do you really think that his scumbuddies all rushed to his defense THAT obviously?

[Toaster Strudel]

I think Yosarian is more likely scum, because maybe he wanted to buddy to read his PM real bad. Maybe. I am beginning to suspect that hasdgfas really didn't understand what was going on. But I may be wrong.

If Quagmire is town, then Yosarian has no vested interest in having him read his role PM other than the same one all of us do, that it's not helpful to town for Quagmire not to read his role PM.

You're right. I am incorrect. If Quagmire is town, then Yosarian would more likely be scum, because he defended him materially, but no very forcefully. What I was thinking is that they may both be scum, and that distracted me from the possibility that either one would be town...

So I'm not following your logic here. It's less likely they're all scum defending their buddy, not more likely, in my view. I think there's likely scum somewhere in the mix we mentioned, and maybe it is Quagmire, but do you really think that his scumbuddies all rushed to his defense THAT obviously?

Lemme think.

Again, one of the least conspicuous defenders is Yosarian2. He certainly wasn't bus'ing Quagmire. He just gently derailed his wagon. Yosarian might have defended a buddy discretely, or defended a townie in the same way - but as a scum, not as town. So I guess I'd have to say that Yosarian's behavior was scummy, regardless of what might be revealed of Quagmire's alignment.

The same is true for MoS. His behavior with Quagmire fits more under the category of scum than town just like Yosarian's - again regarless of Quagmire's alignment.

Now that I think about it, the mere fact that they defended such idiocy points to them being scum knowing that Quagmire may be town. But then again, Quagmire's play (or as he admits, non-play) is so against the town, that he might be scum anyway...

Hasdagas was perhaps a little too conspicious to be buddies with Quagmire, but not too conspicious to be scum rushing to a townie's defense.

That's why my vote was on MoS, before I switched to Quagmire again. Unfortunately, the tide is favoring MoS.

I do think knowing Quagmire's alignment will help clarify things tomorrow, but that an MoS lynch has a better chance of hitting scum.

I hope I make more sense now.

[JordanA24]

[snip]

Not convinced Quag is scum.

And his very next post regarding Quagmire:

I think Quag is completely screwing with us, trying to get conversation away from scum with his distracting antics, he's giving nothing to the game in terms of scumhunting, thanks to his ridiculous tunnel-vision on TS. I would not be sad to see him go.

Unvote Vote: Quag

I think this was the most opportunistic vote on the Quag wagon. I think jordan, as scum, realized his Quag vote looked incredibly opportunistic and didn't mesh with all his other statements regarding the wagon, so he felt the need to reinforce it with his last post.

unvote, vote: Jordan

May I just say, that I've done this post before, and the site lost it (Grrr!!!! *headdesk*), so any frustration is apologized for here.

Right, between my Quagvote post and the post before that, there was almost a month (24 Quag posts in other words). I probably should have explained better why I'm voting Quag in the post I voted him, so I'll do so here.

First, I want to point everyone out to this post. Before this, she had been doing her typical play (from what I hear; I'm too lazy to look anything up): baseless conspiracy theories with no logic tied to them whatsoever (see: what MoS posted in this upcoming quote). That's fine, that's cool and everything -- she wasn't really maliciously pursuing them, and there was nothing different about any of her play than I expected. Then this comes:

Unvote, Vote: Toaster Strudel

Metagame policy to lynch TS in every game until I see some useful posts instead of random ranting that doesn't even contain logic.

Any player that reads the above post ought to selectively read MoS's posts in this game, and compare to mine.

I guarantee you're going to laugh.

Just to make it easier, let me post the ENTIRETY of MoS's contribution to this game (7 tiny, meaningless posts):

Original Roll String: 1d19 (STATIC)

1 19-Sided Dice: (8) = 8

Vote: Zu_Faul

Your expecting me to react to a vote in the random voting stage?

You just did.

Congrats schizy =P

Kaleidopoop?

Hi.

Unvote, Vote: Toaster Strudel

Metagame policy to lynch TS in every game until I see some useful posts instead of random ranting that doesn't even contain logic.

MoS's lack of reading the game (if he read the game he would not have dismissed my contribution so lackadaisically), combined with his own near complete lack of participation, and sudden attempt to distract from the Peers wagon leads me to believe that we might be on to something with the Peers wagon.

Also, my theory that either Jordan or Panzer may be scum with Peers, *might* be correct - and *if* it is correct, there is a strong probability that MoS would be another buddy.

I mean, first off, I couldn't take this at all -- much like the rest of TS's posts and I'm sure what most of you thought mine have been -- but this post struck me as odd. What I especially didn't like about it, and this was about when I started voting for TS with no explanation, I might add, was that TS started to manufacture her stupid conspiracy theories based on two lines of post.

That's a key word there.

Manufacture.

MoS said that he was going to policy lynch TS until he found something better. TS complained about his lack of posting and then promptly accused MoS of being in a scum group with whoever she deemed necessary. For some reason, she correlates "not posting" with "not reading the thread," which, in the case of MoS, a much better and more experienced player, is not true. He simply said that he's voting for TS until he sees something better, and TS created another BS conspiracy theory just to make more conspiracy theories. If that's not lynching without a purpose, then I don't know what is.

But, Policy Voting in the middle of a game (ie. Not in the Random Vote stage) is scummy. Policy Voting is voting someone for no game-related reason, therefore it has no connection what you think the players alignment is. So doing so in the serious part of a game, even "temporarily", is scummy, you're contributing nothing to the game, and clogging it with useless crap. Also, for the record, I find it odd that MOS's postrate increased dramatically as soon as TS pointed it out. Anyway, I think Quag's defense of MOS is craplogic, and points to possible buddies.

I'm not going to claim anytime soon. This conversation is worthless. Stop trying to "lead discussion" somewhere, because it's not going to go anywhere.

I didn't ask you anything. I asked Peers. Let him answer.

Yeah, but...this discussion has no point. There is no relevancy. It's totally useless.

Why? Would you be saying that if the focus of discussion was someone else?

Lynching me would be stupid. I'm on the town's side. Toaster Strudel is mafia, from what I've gathered. That's all that I'm going to say.

Why do you keep saying this? It has an air of desperation about it.

What you did was incredibly anti-town. It shows blatant disregard for the town, in other words.

Uhh, no it doesn't. Explain where it does please. And I guarantee you that my observations (before I looked at my role, of course) come from a purely townsperson's perspective.[/quote]

Maybe, but it still doesn't mean anything, of course it'd come from a townspersons perspective, you hadn't read your possibly scummy Role PM yet.

And what did you mean by "Before I looked at my role of course" in this post? To me, it says, it was from a townspersons perspective, but then I looked at my scum Role PM, and then that perspective changed. Fruedian Slip?

I'd rather lynch someone who is scum than someone who is useless for Day 1. Considering that there are actually people who seem like scum right now, we're better off lynching then than Quagmire.

Everyone in the town would rather lynch scum than someone who is useless; that's the game. But in this case, nobody can agree just who seems scummy. At least, no more than a few people can agree. Quag is the first person the whole town has really gotten together on, to push to the point of hammering. It's day 1, we don't have much to go on and Quag sent up a huge signal fire to distract us.

Yes, I understand where you're coming from. Someone saying unprovoked for no good reason that they haven't read their role PM up to this point really should be setting off your scum alarm. You know, because scum like to purposely go out of their way to gain attention.

Do town like to attract attention to themselves either? Besides, you hadn't even know your Role at that point anyway, so that makes this

entire point

invalid.

Also, I'd like the following from you:
Please give your opinion of Peers.
Please give your opinion of hasdfgas.
Please give your opinion of Yosarian2.
Please order these 3 players on a scale from town to scum.
Please provide appropriate quotes to support any statements that you make.

The only one of these that I'm going to answer is something that I've already answered. I refuse to do anything that you request me to do because no matter what I say, you're never going to believe a word that I say and nothing I say or do will ever remove your annoying and worthless "conspiracy theory" on me.

How convenient, someone actually asks you a question, and you deem them unworthy of an answer. I don't buy your Catch-22 excuse at all. Maybe if you answered her questions, she'd be more willing to get off your back.

So, Quagmire, I would also like to hear what you think about different people in the game; as we don't really have any information on you until about 10 pages ago like to hear a little more about your current thoughts about the game.

Now that you've spit out your bile, Quagmire, Yosarian2 asked you the above question. Please answer.

What else am I supposed to say? I've put my thoughts out there; I think Toaster Strudel is scum. Nothing else is worth talking about at the moment. Nobody else has come up with a convincing argument to sway me and nothing's made me change my mind about what I think. So, until then, I have nothing additional to say.

I'll speak when I have something to say. Otherwise, you're just going to hear me say, "I don't have anything to say," if everyone continues trying to badger me about my thoughts on every single person in the game.

Well, if nobody's cases on anyone else can convince you, why don't you try investigating people's posts yourself, and see what you can find? Otherwise all you're doing is manufacturing an excuse to stay tunnel-visioned on TS.

[Setael]

@Albert: Because I think he's town so I'd rather not force him to claim. I won't vote him unless he's the leading wagon.

Maybe I'm impatient because all my other games are moving along so much more quickly. There's no following for any of the cases I made, so I may as well push the leading wagon.

[Peers]

I thought I wasn't the leading wagon until you voted for me?

[Setael]

You thought wrong.

When I voted: (unless TS' votecount was wrong)

5: Peers (YagamiLight, Erg0, hasdgfas, Bookitty, Panzerjager)
4: Kscope (Zu_Faul, Yosarian2, schismatized, MoS)
4: MoS (Kscope, IH, ToasterStrudel, Peers)
2: Quagmire (Battle Mage, JordanA24)
1: Setael (Sir Tornado)
1: Bookitty (Quagmire)
1: JordanA24 (Setael)
1: hasdgfas (ABR)

[Peers]

Ah, right, I was thinking Panzer. My bad. You did, indeed, vote for the person who had the most votes simply to lynch someone, regardless of if they were scum or not, because you're bored. You are completely without blame.

... hey, waitasec...

[Setael]

Are you voting at all, Peers? Do you really have no problem with 50 pages and no lynch? Who do you think is scum?

[Peers]

... Yes, I -am- voting, thank you for bothering to read the votecount before asking an amazingly stupid question.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote vote Peers

Don't insult Setael kthx.

[zu_Faul]

Votecount would be good. But finally people

are voting KScope. Its new post was so bandwagonny and opportune it smells of

scumminess.

Fascinating how how ignore both the cases I made against Yosarian2

and hasdgfas, only paid attention to the last post in the thread (a one-liner to

boot), and concluded schis was scum.

Do you understand how you look at least as opportunistic as schis? More scummy by my

book, because I understand schis's sentiment that this day has seen a great many good

wagons derailed by er, say, Yosarian2 and hasdfas to name a few, has been sorely

lacking in votecounts, has lasted way too long, and had stalled. Your berating schis

is out of left field.

It's as if you can still see a star twinkling in the sky, when the sun is shining at

noon. It smells of scum not paying attention - consciously or not.

Lucky for you, hasdgfas is the lynch today.

Wow, how can someone misread my post so much that it appears to be an attack on

shismatized? Wtf? Yeah, if you invent crap I haven't said, obviously you can make an

attack against me. You are a complete retard.

Just because you're attention whoring and talk about no one but the guys you bring

up, and when someone else does not mention them you go into paranoid-angry retard

mode and start to scream and cry:


[quote="Peers"[

Why are you totally ignoring Yosarian2 and

hasdfas, by the by?

Because Yosarian's responded to every attack you've launched on him, and the last

time I voted for hasdaflag you decided I was scummy, so there's no point in me

mentioning him either way, now is there?[/quote]

so there's no point in me mentioning him either way, now is there?

You're right! Don't mention Yosarian2, don't vote fo hassdgfas, attack me instead!!!

You know what you sound like? You sound like totally panicked scum. And now, totally

panicked scum that's given up. I approve.

----

Peril in Panama, that started about the same time as this game, has only 24 pages,

and THEY HAVE ALREADY LYNCHED SOMEONE!!!

So what? Games happen at different speed, this is a very poor argument. Only scum has

rational reason to rush into a lynch.

-----

There is absolutly nothing in the month of December that Panzer did that

makes me think he's trying to help the town at all. It was all spam and active

lurking, punctuated with a bit of unreasoned and illogical bandwagon hopping and a

joke vote more then a month into the game, and then he just stopped posting all

together.

I agree.
-----

I think you're reaching here. The more

obvious assumption is that the reply was subliminally based off the fact that the

people attacking him assumed he was lying about not reading his role pm. When you

look at it from that point of view, his reply makes perfect sense. The fact that you

are stretching to try and fit everything he does into a negative light does not make

me feel better about your attacks on him.

The more obvious assumption is one that requires subliminal psychological analysis?

Isn't the more obvious assumption that he just screwed up and said something scummy?

Actually, to me Quag's reply made sense. Though I don't get the psychoanalysis crap

MoS is talking about.
Most (maybe all) people accusing Quag now read it his meassages only what they want

to read. This attitue isn't helping.

FOS: Bookitty

-----

Long days can be productive if they aren't clogged up by inane tunnel-

vision attacks on people whose alignment can clearly not be determined that day.

[...] It's all about what you do with the time you use. This town, or more

specifically, you, TS, are frittering away the pages with useless chatter that only

serves to distract the town away from finding scum. One could almost make the

connection that you are purposefully pursuing this crusade against Quagmire to keep

the town from actually finding scum today.

MoS is right and makes sense.
----

I just want a lynch. 50 pages and no D1 lynch is ridiculous. I'll

even vote Quag at this point if he's the leading wagon, even though I think he's

town. Any of them could be scum and anything will give us information.

Now THIS is so scummy.

FOS: Setael

Still, I'm not letting Kscope lurk his way to not be lynched. If he starts to play

pro-townish soon, I think I'll vote TS, who does not use her mind and acts blindly

and provides distraction for scum at best or is trying to play so obvious as scum and

then try to WIFOM her way out of being lynched at worst.

[Bookitty]

Zu Faul, you're aware that Kaleidoscope has only two fewer total posts in this thread than you do?

And that your whole case on KScope is that he's a lurker? Do you feel he's lurking differently than you are? Worse, somehow?

I also get the sense you haven't read a lot of things that happened lately. Have you?

[Yosarian2]

Though I totally agree that Peers has acted scummy, but Peer has already said he's vanilla. Choosing to lynch Peers today is a pretty dumb town strategy.

Huh? If you think he's acted scummy, how does him claiming vanillia make him a bad lynch? I'm confused.

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, I should probably just start ignoring TS, she's certanly just ignoring my responses to her attacks on me and just continually repeating them over and over agian. I normally have a policy of responding to all attacks, but I think I might have to start making an exception in her case, it's just getting too tedes to respond to the same flawed attacks with the same defenses over and over again. The really frustrating part is that I don't even think she's especally likely to be scum.

Anyway, I still say we lynch either Panzer or Kscope. I haven't see anyone give any good reasons why not, least of all either of them.

[Shanba]

Vote Count:

7: Peers

(YagamiLight, Erg0, hasdgfas, Bookitty, Panzerjager, Setael, ABR)

4: Kscope

(Zu_Faul, Yosarian2, schismatized, MoS)

3: MoS

(Kscope, IH, Peers)

3: Quagmire

(Battle Mage, JordanA24, TS)

1: Setael

(Sir Tornado)

1: Bookitty

(Quagmire)

Not voting:

[Toaster Strudel]

Unvote vote Peers

Don't insult Setael kthx.

How is your QUAGMIRE CLAIM project going? Abandoned?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Suspended. I will vig him tonight.

[hasdgfas]

Did you just claim with no reason?