Mafia 74: Minimally Flavoured - Game over!

[Antithesis]

Wow, the site is much better to peruse at seven in the morning.

The Mills thing, his post about needing a town leader, the mention of conciliation. I think he meant these things in a broader context, and he reacted to Kitty the way he did because he perhaps felt words were being misconstrued (albeit not purposefully) to paint him as a suspect when that was the opposite of what he wanted. But that is just my take. I don't mean to put words into anyone's mouth or act like I am some kind of psychologist. Given his role, I do think when he wrote about the need for a town leader, he envisioned himself in that position, if not day 1, then later. But again, that is just my supposition.

As for suspects, aside from those who have been largely inactive, I cannot recall any substantive posts from CKD, however I may very well be misrembering (to steal a phrase from Toni Morrison) and I don't feel strongly enough about him to vote on it out of hand. If he would link to some posts in this thread that show me to be mistaken in my impression of him, I would appreciate it.

The DK/ Ecteocles thing interests me. For better or for worse, Ecteocles has made no attempt to repair the situation, in fact his inactivity has made things even worse. Knowing that I had to respond quickly, given the role I inherited, and the time constraints involved, at this point I have to assume that at the very best, Ecteocles is a vanilla townie, and thats if we give him the benefit of the doubt and accept that he isn't comfortable speaking "engrish".

Worst case scenario would be that DS was scum, and that Ecteocles inherited the role, saw the amount of onus that DS had bequeethed him, and is simply just not bothering to participate because he wants to cut his losses now, rather than try to fight the good fight and risk still being lynched over someone else's play later on.

Given the deadline I will wait one more day on Eteocles to respond, or for something else huge to transpire, otherwise I will be voting for him on the 19th. If he is ghosting (my term for going invisible and secretly following a thread) maybe the votes will spur him to respond, which in itself may look scummy. If he doesn't respond at all, with the deadline so close, I can't really conside him to be a useful townie, regardless of the chance that he might eb town alligned.

[Antithesis]

tried to post yesterday after the mills post, but kept getting the CPU overload page.

Gee thanks for the input mills. You're a real pal.

Unvote, Vote: CKD

for still not making any contribution even with the deadline fast approaching.

Antithesis, who's looking the most suspicious to you?

aww, now look OGML and Panzer's votes are soo cute. Ask yourself this, why are they focusing on me who is actually posting (even though it is quite little) over those who are not posting at all? Panzer's vote I can understand, even though I find it hypocritical. Panzer, I bet I wont have to dig ever far in your meta to disocver you posting very little in a game or even getting replaced for not posting at all (but do I really need to?). I think Panzer might be just trying to stir shit to see what develops. WHich could be townish. However, OGML, he is basically taking the lynch the lurker attitude to jump on a develoing bandwagon early. He is hoping I turn into the next bandwagon before the lynch comes down.

vote ohgodmylife

now that I have voted and provided some content, I wonder if he will take his vote off or backtrack and come up with another reason. Answer me this, ogml, why are you focusing on me after Panzer vote, versus people WHO ARE ACTUALLY LURKING THIS GAME? I think that your reason is bullshit...now that I have posted, what next?

I bet your at a loss, here I will give you another crap reason, "I am keeping my vote on CKD because only scum OMGUS vote"...cross your fingers and hope the town believes that one.

And here I see CKD posts as I was writing up my post. Here is what I was looking for, really. I just wanted to point this out because I said that I couldn't recall you making any substantive posts, that is probably the fault of my memory and the fact that I read about half the game last night in a rage over site issues, and the other half today, and some things may be blurred together,and others I may have very well overlooked.

Even now I think I should do a re-read, but the Eteocles thing, I honestly found DS's behavior somewhat odd, but was willing to chalk that up to style or whatever, but Eteocles, I just cannot recall him doing anything here except making mention of 'engrish' and then popping in once and a while to ask for more time. Between DS and Etecoles, I can't resolve the behavior of two players as being demonstrative of town allignment, or barring that, that Eteocles will be of any help to the town later on (assuming I am mistaken and he is, in fact, town alligned). Anyway I believe I have made that point clear.

[PJ.]

Panzerjager has now gone from FOSing everyone on DS to calling DS 5th scummiest and back.

I also notice she didn't mention the possibility of a serial killer, despite bringing it up earlier.

Something isn't adding up here.

FOS: Panzerjager

.

Honestly I was just trying to include everyone in that post, and finding someone 5th scummiest is not really that bad. And CKD has jumped fully ahead of DS and I stand by everything I said about DS' play

About the serial killer comment, You are reaching exetremely bad. If I seriously thought that Phate was SK, don't you think I would be voting him. And in that post I was simply telling Antithesis(due to his lack of experiance) that there were definently more then 3 due to game size, not trying to engage in serious set up speculation(which is bad).

Panzer is making me scratch my head. I don't know what he's seeing in CKD to think him more worthy of a "lurker lynch" than DS/Eteocles

I will be doing a case on CKD later on in the post, so I'll get to that suspicion right now

aww, now look OGML and Panzer's votes are soo cute. Ask yourself this, why are they focusing on me who is actually posting (even though it is quite little) over those who are not posting at all? Panzer's vote I can understand, even though I find it hypocritical. Panzer, I bet I wont have to dig ever far in your meta to disocver you posting very little in a game or even getting replaced for not posting at all (but do I really need to?). I think Panzer might be just trying to stir shit to see what develops. WHich could be townish. However, OGML, he is basically taking the lynch the lurker attitude to jump on a develoing bandwagon early. He is hoping I turn into the next bandwagon before the lynch comes down.

vote ohgodmylife

now that I have voted and provided some content, I wonder if he will take his vote off or backtrack and come up with another reason. Answer me this, ogml, why are you focusing on me after Panzer vote, versus people WHO ARE ACTUALLY LURKING THIS GAME? I think that your reason is bullshit...now that I have posted, what next?

Imagine that CKD finally has time to post after getting 2 votes on him. First of all, My activity level in other games, present and past, was never caused by the lack of caring about a game due to being in other games. Yes, there are games that I have been a lurker and not posted all together, but that has been to things in my real life stopping me from being able to play the game and get on the computer. Any game i realized I couldn't handle I have replaced my self out of and apoligized that I couldn't make it.

To me the fact that you weren't posting simply because you'd rather be posting else where is exetremely scummy because you went through all of day 1 doing, establishing a precedent of "I ignore games because other games are better", which would give you a pass later. That is why I hold you above the other lurkers and as Rishi said I think DS is an Easy target that shouldn't be lynched unless we need a deadline lynch.

So back to CKD, I'll give everyone the Reader's Digest version. Lurking in plain sight(just because you post doesn't mean your not lurking and not the biggest offender) and refusing to post in this game due to other games"heating up". This will establisha precedent that if we don't lynch him fr it or at least establish that it's not okay, he can use it to avoid serious questioning and slide by into the later days(which is bad for us if he is scum or continues to be a useless town). When he did post content, he was exetremely overdefensive about two votes that were on him, I love how two votes got him to post actual content, and actually OMGUSed OGML.

[curiouskarmadog]

lol, you jsut missed it OGML, Panzer did it for you.

You could have summed all that up wtih Lynch the Lurker, Panzer.

Now what will you do about all the other lurkers? Guess they will be on your list tomorrow?..hey, maybe if you are lucky, you might actually find scum?...I mean, you do want to find scum, right Panzer? I wonder how long you will ride the lynch the lurker plan.

[Xylthixlm]

Honestly I was just trying to include everyone in that post, and finding someone 5th scummiest is not really that bad.

In other words, you just wanted to distance from Disciple Slayer, and didn't actually think he was scummy.

[PJ.]

No, I thought he was scummy after who I put him in front of, as in not today's lynch, and if he/ecto kept it up I would lynch him.

[PJ.]

CKD, You just strawmanned, thank you come again.

[The Fonz]

Fairly useless, Rishi? Possibly. But also my strongest suspicion. There is time yet to avoid a no-lynch.

[Rishi]

Well, after I posted that, other people chimed in with suspicions on OGML, which means that I might need to do a re-read on him. You could be right.

But, as I said, I don't necessarily find you scummy, Fonz, but I just wanted you to post.

Unvote

[xyzzy]

Xyl, your argument against Panzer is weak, and Panzer has contributed a lot to the game. Other than the SK argument, Panzer hasn't really done anything noticably scummy.

How many hours are there until deadline? I'm definitely putting my vote on Eteocles if he doesn't have a VERY good excuse for lurking this much, plus a defense for why his predecessor wasn't so freaking scummy.

As in, almost certainly. I'm 99% convinced that Eteo is lurker scum.

[Xylthixlm]

I know the argument against Panzer is weak. Still, I've got my eye on her.

A bit under 52 hours to deadline.

I'd put DS/Eteo at about 40% lurker scum, 60% absolutely useless townie. That makes him a better choice than any other candidate, and much better than no lynch.

[Bookitty]

Okay, while the site is actually functioning, I will

unvote; vote Eteocles

I very much dislike doing this without hearing from Eteocles, so

@mod:

Can you please prod Eteocles? We're under deadline and one of the main suspects is not posting at all. Is it possible to get an extension on the deadline in this case, pending replacement?

[Elias_the_thief]

The Tenth Official Flavorless Votecount:

Eteocles - 5

(Snaps the pirate, Xylthixlm, egruntz, Hasdgfas, Bookitty)

OhGodMyLife - 2

(the fonz, curiouskarmadog)

curiouskarmadog - 2

(panzerjager, OhGodMyLife)

Antithesis - 1

(Phate)

Bookitty - 1

(eteocles)

egruntz - 1

(Xyzzy)

liamcool - 1

(Vollkan)

Xylthixlm - 0

Snaps the pirate - 0

The Fonz - 0

panzerjager - 0

Xyzzy - 0

Hasdgfas - 0

Sangy - 0

Phate - 0

Rishi - 0

Dark Ermac - 0

Vollkan - 0

Nobody - 5

(Rishi, Dark Ermac, sangy, liamcool, Eteocles)

With 18 alive, it will take 10 to lynch.

---

Unfortunately, I'm not going to back up my deadline, as the whole idea is to keep this game fairly brief. I also am not going to force a replacement into a 1 day to deadline situation as the leading lynch candidate. Eteocles has not responded to his prods, but I'm not going to replace him.

[Xylthixlm]

Rishi, Dark Ermac, sangy, liamcool, Mills:

Do you think that it would be better to lynch today as opposed to not lynch?

Is there any specific player who you think would be a better lynch for today than no lynch at all?

Why are you not voting anyone?

[Rishi]

The only person likely to be lynched is Eteocles, and I think he's a bad player, not a scummy player.

No Lynch does hurt the town, but until I see a viable counter-wagon, I'm not going to jump on one. I just replaced into the game, so it's hard for me to get a strong impression on anyone as scum.

[Xylthixlm]

So you don't want to no lynch, but you don't want to lynch Eteocles, and you don't want to lynch anyone else either. What

do

you want?

[Elias_the_thief]

Patch15 and Sangy are both going to be replaced by Day 2. Found one replacement, searching for another (Vollkan will be replacing Patch15).

[Antithesis]

Rishi, Dark Ermac, sangy, liamcool, Mills:

Do you think that it would be better to lynch today as opposed to not lynch?

Is there any specific player who you think would be a better lynch for today than no lynch at all?

Why are you not voting anyone?

Mills is gone.

As I stated, I wanted to give Eteocles one last chance, Why, I guess mainly to assuage my own guilt if he is, in fact, innocent. But I said I would vote today if he hadn't replied and I shall, right now.

vote Eteocles

[Bookitty]

I had a more pragmatic reason. I'd really rather not lynch a powerrole, and since he'll have no chance to claim, we don't know if we're doing that.

Still, if he won't be replaced and he won't answer prods, I don't see much other choice.

[The Fonz]

There are sufficient votes on Eteocles to avoid the no-lynch whatever. I'm going to stay with OGML for now.

[Xylthixlm]

Mills is gone.

I cut and pasted from the votecount, so I blame any errors in the list on our mod.

- oops. fixed.

[Phate]

Mills/whoever replaced him = better lynch than ds/whoever replaced him.

[hasdgfas]

Mills/whoever replaced him = better lynch than ds/whoever replaced him.

He claimed cop. Read the thread.

[vollkan]

- Vollkan was able to post sooner then I thought. So yeah, Vollkan replaces Patch15.

Hello everyone. I'll post my notes and any comments I have as I read through the thread. This is

solely

to help me find my bearings - more detailed commentary on individuals will come in the future. Basically, hammering through the first read to get a general picture and then chiseling at the important bits later on.

So,

Page 1

Mostly just randomness. Egruntz makes a truly atrocious post, basically taking a defeatist approach and saying we should just No Lynch. Interestingly, he doesn't actually vote NL, despite clearly thinking it the best option. Testing the waters perhaps?

Page 2

Bookitty votes ergruntz; I agree with her reasons. Snaps takes a different view in that he disagrees with erg but thinks erg's post tells us about erg as a person. Methinks this is a tad soft. Erg maintains his opposition to NL saying it better to have NL than drag out for weeks and have nothing achieved. Again, I really disagree. D1 lynches usually end up lynching town, but there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained from such lynches. Without lynching, you rely on NKs as a source of reveals, and therefore you end up relying on the scum. xylth states just this very fact. Fonz votes Bookitty saying Bookitty must have noticed Erg is a 'townsperson'. Bookitty pithily responds by saying Fonz must know that votes need not be seeking of a lynch. OGML votes Fonz because Bookitty et al got erg talking. Erg shifts his position to say: "All I'm saying is that we shouldn't vote or lynch randomly. It'll most likely effect the town." This isn't true; he was saying it was better to NL; not that it was better to NL than lynch at random. Erg says that Book's vote shows she obviously thinks he's scum - er...he really doesn't have a clue how this works, does he? Panzer votes Fonz for writing off a newbie who isn't even a newbie - true I guess, since erg is not unused to mafia; just comes from a different site, apparently. However, site differences can translate into major play differences, so Fonz is not entirely in the wrong here.

Page 3

Mills is tossing up between DS for meta-reasons and Ermac for apparent defeatism in advocating a random lynch because mafia will cause a town lynch D1 anyway. Snaps echoes the anti-DS sentiment. DS votes Fonz - still nothing substantial from this guy. Fonz argues that erg is new to this site and, thus, is a newbie for MS purposes. Book says that newbies belong in newbie games and she is not going to alter her play to accomodate them in regulars - a very interesting atttitude. I don't get her accusation that Fonz overreacted, though. I think the point here is that Erg is clearly not totally incompetent (cf. a total newb). He is arguing in support of something ridiculous and that can't simply be ignored. Xylth votes liam for repeatedly referring to "our people" and "the town" - good pressure vote. Fonz criticises Book's use of the overeaction accusation and also a strawmanning about vote = desire to lynch. Fonz says that the reason he is still arguing is because nobody explained it. CKD arrives and goes after erg for his bad posts and Fonz for his responses to people's treatment of Erg. Erg points out he was the one that said the bad liam quote, not liam. Book unvotes thinking scum wouldn't do this - I'm a bit more skeptical, for the same reason as CKD. Mills goes after DS - adds nothing to the discussion.

Page 4

OGML votes Mills for his pursuit of DS; also expresses his view that Erg is well-meaning. Mills thinks erg is pro-town. liam FoSes both DS and Mills. Egr persists in advocating NL because he "thinks" it is best - doesn't even comment on Fonz's thorough rebuttal to this position. DS votes Bookitty because, apparently, Egr only "mentioned" NL and did not push it; this guy clearly is not paying any attention at all.

Page 5

Snaps cottons on to the ignorance displayed by DS over Egr and NL. Mills elaborates on actual reasons he has for suspecting DS: for shifting play and for attacking Mills' character. Liam thinks Mills could be a lyncher - weird suggestion. Lots of speculation.

Page 6

Fonz calls an end to the speculating. Egr FoSes Xylth for "wanting to end" D1; that wasn't what xylth was advocating, so Egr is wrong again. Egr shifts AGAIN this time saying that we should NL if we cannot come to a final "and positive" decision about who is scum. I'm getting tired of reading Egr's thoughts on NL; since he is so atrociously wrong.

Page 7

"Egruntz, being a moron is not a playstyle"- Best line of the entire game so far; kudos to Panzer. Some discussion about whether or not to lynch anti-towns. I don't have any objection in principle. I don't think the debate here is too meaningful, since views do differ on this subject.

Page 8

OMGL votes xylth for not focussing on the game and for pursuing idiots. Fonz notes the problem with this, namely that he is attacking for what he acknowledges may well just be play, and votes OMGL. Panzer argues that he has lynched ABR and BM too many times to go after an anti-town again, though Fonz raises the good point that allowing those players to live "because that's they're style" is tremendously risky. hasd votes DS for his lack of any meaningful contribution.

Page 9

Panzer FoSes anyone on DS because DS's play is antitown but not scummy; an "easy lynch". zz FoSes Egr for his advocacy of NL and votes him for the shifting of opinion that Egr has exhibited.

Page 10

Sangy doesn't think Egr is scum because Egr keeps pounding at his NL argument, rather than just sidling into the shadows. Liam raises a silly wifom. My predecessor votes Liam; his sole contribution to date

Next set of pages coming in my next post.

[Snaps_the_Pirate]

Well, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one having problems with this site. About 90% of the time I try to log on to the site it's overloaded.

Anyhow -
Ahoy Vollkan. Welcome to the game!

Page 3

Mills is tossing up between DS for meta-reasons and Ermac for apparent defeatism in advocating a random lynch because mafia will cause a town lynch D1 anyway. Snaps echoes the anti-DS sentiment.

I just wanted to clear up this statement a bit. This statement could be interpreted as I was following Mills' lead on the Disciple Slayer issue. I have consistently stated my belief that Disciple Slayer was scum. His actions make zero sense if he was a townie. My suspicion of him was based solely on his actions in game, not on Mills' meta-comments.
That said, I am satisfied with my vote for Disciple Slayer/Eteocles.