PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Guardian]

Are you suspicious of Thesp, who has basically taken the same position with respect to this option as I have?

Not very, and I find that to be something of a misclassification.

You brought (at least explicitly) this 3rd point up first, and to my understanding are using it to support your suspicion of the Iammars wagon.

Thesp, on the other hand, has acknowledge he may have thought of what you are thinking of, but is not using it as a rationale to reject an assumption that based on the M.O. in the day scene makes sense. He also has said you should not live to near endgame because of this mysteriousness that I do not yet understand, so it would seem to me that painting you two with the same brush isn't very reasonable.

I agree that he hasn't been abused by the mod - that was my point in the first place. Once you eliminate that possibility, the alternative theory would be that he made what seems to me like an unreasonably large leap of logic and tried to clear himself with a wild guess at flavour during the confirmation stage. I don't subscribe to this theory.

Consider this hypothetical thought process:

I am in a game called pirates v. ninjas.
-->In this game, pirates oppose ninjas.
I am ninja scum
There is a town, and I as scum oppose them.
-->Pirates are town.

You consider that to be an unreasonably large leap of logic?

[Thestatusquo]

Happy birthday Iammars!

[Flameaxe]

Happy birthday Iammars!

What Shea said.

[Thok]

Are you suspicious of Thesp, who has basically taken the same position with respect to this option as I have?

Not very, and I find that to be something of a misclassification.

You brought (at least explicitly) this 3rd point up first, and to my understanding are using it to support your suspicion of the Iammars wagon.

I am not using that as a way to support suspicion of the Iammars wagon. Given that you claim to have no idea what it is, I can't see how you can reasonably claim I'm using that as a way to attack people. Moreover, the only person I've discussed this with is Thesp and you, and I haven't been attacking either of you.

[Erg0]

I agree that he hasn't been abused by the mod - that was my point in the first place. Once you eliminate that possibility, the alternative theory would be that he made what seems to me like an unreasonably large leap of logic and tried to clear himself with a wild guess at flavour during the confirmation stage. I don't subscribe to this theory.

Consider this hypothetical thought process:

I am in a game called pirates v. ninjas.
-->In this game, pirates oppose ninjas.
I am ninja scum
There is a town, and I as scum oppose them.
-->Pirates are town.

You consider that to be an unreasonably large leap of logic?

In the context of this game, yes it is. It's common knowledge that Stoofer's games always have a twist, Mars would have to be a raging moron to make such a baseless assumption.

[hasdgfas]

happy birthday Iamm

ers

ars!

[Iammars]

Firstly, thanks to everyone wishing me a happy birthday! I got an iPod Nano, so I'm happy!

Secondly, the confirming was a joke. I felt like being in flavor, plus I was acting like a pirate the whole summer as part of my job.

Thirdly, since Thesp asked nicely, I will claim pirate/not pirate. I'm not a pirate. However, I'm not too familiar with my character, so I'm not 100% sure.

[mikeburnfire]

Guardian, I missed the re-rebuttal. I really don't have a way to FORCE the town out of the random vote phase. I just really don't want it to take up the first 20 pages. I have a hard time staying focused when that happens in minis, let alone large themes.

And my vote was not random. It may have had reasoning behind it. I may have a guilty result on him. I may just be voting arbitrarily. But I am not voting randomly, and saying something along the lines of "[DICE[1y6]=13],

vote:tsq[/i]" does absolutely nothing for anybody.

MBF's 108 really, really bugs me. Why? Timing. He didn't even acknowledge my logic against Iammars's existence when he, in 90, responded to the same post that said logic was in.

I'm reading posts at random, in a way. I just see what was said lately and if I think I need to, I'll go back check a few posts I missed. Obviously this is not good play, but Day 1s bore me to tears.

And iammars, I've wanted to wish you happy BD for awhile, but I didn't want to make a new post just to do it, and whenever I do post I forget.

Happy Birthday. Now get lynched.

[Gorrad]

As for Mars, he's getting a good number of votes while he's not at his computer. The logic behind his bandwagon is the biggest tell I've seen in the game so far, so normally I'd vote him, but I'd rather give him a chance to say his peace than add one more vote to the list of ones he gets while not able to explain himself.

So what tell did you see?

His piratey confirmation. It was a weak tell, but still the biggest I'd seen in the first few pages. I'm satified with his explanation, though, so I'm back to no leads so far.

[Thestatusquo]

fos:gorrad

That doesn't ring true to me.

[Fritzler]

Man, I come back and see that Gorrad is being wagoned. That makes me pretty happy.

[Twomz]

unvote

Happy B-day Iammars. I just realized something... short of full claiming (or at least, name claiming) there is no real way for Iammars to clear himself of this wagon.

However, I am sure that something else will come up (or I can probably find something from the last few pages). But man... this game is cruising and I have evening work, morning classes, evening work, morning class for the next day and a 1/2, so beyond just reading new posts won't be happening anytime soon >.<

[mikeburnfire]

so beyond just reading new posts won't be happening anytime soon >.<

I hypocritically accuse Twomz of being scum because of this.

[Claus]

1- I really don't like the bandwagon on Iammars - Guardian's reason for it are weak. I can see Guardian honestly believing the accusation he made, but I think too many people are too ready to agree to it.

I mean, a random bandwagon for that? Sure! But the discussions that are floating around this bandwagon are a little too deep for one post made before the game even began.

2-

I'm glad that claus pointed out the 'neck cut' as the pirate death...

I didn't say that. In fact, I believe the opposite. But as Thesp said, this is not relevant to D1.

3- Guardian: FUD stands for "Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt". This is what I think that happens when people spend too much time early in the game obsessing about the setup. I'll try to use less Acronyms.

4- Jordan, MGM:

I don't agree that most of the contents is in the large posts. I think shorter posts are better to evaluate what a player honestly thinks.

But because I liked the two of you, and I'm concerned about your concern, I have revised my current policy. Now I may skip posts with more than

4

paragraphs. Satisfied?

5- Gorrad:

I think that early discussion of the setup is a possible scum tell, because it drags the town into fruitless discussion. Discussion of player behavior is better.

I don't like your timidity with supporting the Iammars wagon, but not voting for it.

Also, I don't like when people say "Oh, I have no leads". Don't be timid, we won't laugh at you if you tell us who you suspect!

But anyway, I'm happy with my vote.

6- Thesp:

You say that Iammar's alignment tells us about Gorrad. Why? That flew completely over my head.

============================
I'm mostly suspicious of Thesp and Gorrad right now.

FOS: Thesp

[Mgm]

Second -- MGM, are you saying you find me suspicious for calling someone out for a 5th vote?

I haven't decided yet. First I'd like to hear you answer my question.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Gorrad: 7 (Fritzler, Flameaxe, The Fonz, UltimaAvalon, Claus, Mgm, Kison)
Iammars: 5 (Guardian, Thesp, Sir Tornado, mikeburnfire, Thestatusquo)
UltimaAvalon: 2 (JordanA24, Guardian)
Thestatusquo: 1 (Rosso Carne)
Kison: 1 (hasdgfas)
Claus: 1 (cicero)
cicero: 1 (Iammars)
Skruffs: 1 (Samruc)
Thestatusquo: 1 (Thok)
Thok: 1 (KaleiÐoscøpe)
Mgm: 1 (Erg0)

Not voting: 3 (Skruffs, Gorrad, Twomz)

13 to lynch!

Deadline will be ~18th February.

Under Rule [05], nobody would be lynched at deadline.

[Gorrad]

Also, I don't like when people say "Oh, I have no leads". Don't be timid, we won't laugh at you if you tell us who you suspect!

I honestly don't see anyone standing out right now- there's a lot of bad play here, enough that no one person stands out among it all. I'm going to reread soon (probably later today), but a vast majority of this thread has either been attack of me or attack of Iammars, neither of which I find based on good nor on solid tells.

FoS: Everyone on either bandwagon

.

[Thesp]

I agree that he hasn't been abused by the mod - that was my point in the first place. Once you eliminate that possibility, the alternative theory would be that he made what seems to me like an unreasonably large leap of logic and tried to clear himself with a wild guess at flavour during the confirmation stage. I don't subscribe to this theory.

Consider this hypothetical thought process:

I am in a game called pirates v. ninjas.
-->In this game, pirates oppose ninjas.
I am ninja scum
There is a town, and I as scum oppose them.
-->Pirates are town.

You consider that to be an unreasonably large leap of logic?

In the context of this game, yes it is. It's common knowledge that Stoofer's games always have a twist, Mars would have to be a raging moron to make such a baseless assumption.

I don't see how "Stoofer's games have a twist" invalidates the hypothetical thought process. At all.

Thirdly, since Thesp asked nicely, I will claim pirate/not pirate. I'm not a pirate. However, I'm not too familiar with my character, so I'm not 100% sure.

This feels very weasel-y. Happy with my vote.

His piratey confirmation. It was a weak tell, but still the biggest I'd seen in the first few pages. I'm satified with his explanation, though, so I'm back to no leads so far.

What other explanation would you have expected? "Aw, shucks, you got me"?

You say that Iammar's alignment tells us about Gorrad. Why? That flew completely over my head.

Please re-read Gorrad in the context of IammarsScum, then in the context of IammarsTown, and I suspect you'll get quite a different read.

[Thestatusquo]

Thank you, Thesp, that was exactly what I was getting at. The only other response for Iammars to make would be "Oh...Fuck, I guess you caught me. I'll vote myself now." For you to be satisfied with his response presupposes that you really weren't suspicious of him in the first place, in which case, why the pressure? Hence my FoS.

[Mr Stoofer]

It's common knowledge that Stoofer's games always have a twist,

Maybe the twist is: there is no twist...

[Thestatusquo]

Wifom.

[Guardian]

Are you suspicious of Thesp, who has basically taken the same position with respect to this option as I have?

Not very, and I find that to be something of a misclassification.

You brought (at least explicitly) this 3rd point up first, and to my understanding are using it to support your suspicion of the Iammars wagon.

I am not using that as a way to support suspicion of the Iammars wagon. Given that you claim to have no idea what it is, I can't see how you can reasonably claim I'm using that as a way to attack people.

I thought you cited "mysterious 3rd point" as one of your reasons for being wary of the Iammars wagon. No?

That is an extremely easy way I can reasonably claim that you are using it as a way to attack

people

ideas.

Using a mysterious, unclarified, secret point to support your stance was precisely the reason I found you suspicious. You talk about something you are keeping purposefully vague, you talk about a 3rd unmentioned possibility, you talk about assumptions that you are unwilling to make -- assumptions that you are even unwilling to disclose what they are -- and use that as a basis for your stance.

Yeah, I find that suspicious.

---

I agree that he hasn't been abused by the mod - that was my point in the first place. Once you eliminate that possibility, the alternative theory would be that he made what seems to me like an unreasonably large leap of logic and tried to clear himself with a wild guess at flavour during the confirmation stage. I don't subscribe to this theory.

Consider this hypothetical thought process:

I am in a game called pirates v. ninjas.
-->In this game, pirates oppose ninjas.
I am ninja scum
There is a town, and I as scum oppose them.
-->Pirates are town.

You consider that to be an unreasonably large leap of logic?

In the context of this game, yes it is. It's common knowledge that Stoofer's games always have a twist, Mars would have to be a raging moron to make such a baseless assumption.

I don't see how "Stoofer's games have a twist" invalidates the hypothetical thought process. At all.

I'd like to hear a response to this.

Thirdly, since Thesp asked nicely, I will claim pirate/not pirate. I'm not a pirate. However, I'm not too familiar with my character, so I'm not 100% sure.

This feels very weasel-y. Happy with my vote.

Not sure if it sounds weasel-y to me, but I don't think there is a better place for my vote at the moment.

His piratey confirmation. It was a weak tell, but still the biggest I'd seen in the first few pages. I'm satified with his explanation, though, so I'm back to no leads so far.

What other explanation would you have expected? "Aw, shucks, you got me"?

I'd like to hear a response to this.

You say that Iammar's alignment tells us about Gorrad. Why? That flew completely over my head.

Please re-read Gorrad in the context of IammarsScum, then in the context of IammarsTown, and I suspect you'll get quite a different read.

I did this read, and... I'm not sure I see what Thesp is seeing. I'd like others to consider this and draw their own conclusions, and have discussion about it.

---

Second -- MGM, are you saying you find me suspicious for calling someone out for a 5th vote?

I haven't decided yet. First I'd like to hear you answer my question.

Well, MGM, I asked because I wanted to see how vested an interest you had in the game/how close you were paying attention. I didn't accuse anyone of spuriously making too quick a vote -- I in fact was asking hasdgfas why he

didn't

make a 5th vote -- I think large wagons are generally productive at this point in the game, and was questioning his hesitancy.

---

I'm reading posts at random, in a way. I just see what was said lately and if I think I need to, I'll go back check a few posts I missed. Obviously this is not good play, but Day 1s bore me to tears.

Day 1s bore me as well, and more importantly I think that long day ones are extremely hurtful to the town -- I would love it if this one ended in about 7 more pages, and definitely no more than 20 total. Still, I *try* to read everything, and at least skim back at what I might have missed... Your "obviously not good play" and joking post that follows this one does nothing to assuage my suspicion of you.

---

I want to emphasize this: I think we should really try and end this day before the twenty page mark. If you are all mafia-saints that have hours to devote to combing through 40 page day ones, then I commend you. But no matter how much time it takes us to get there, as long as we have heard in a meaningful way from every player and have a reasonable lynch candidate, I want the day over before 20 pages. I've been in games where people oppose this, and say long days are better since there is more information, and that I am being weak.

Guess what -- almost everyone is weak. Very few people are going to go back and read 30,40,50 pages of day one nonsense. Maybe this game has an disproportionate amount of such people -- but I know at least that I am not one of them. I hope I have support in this.

[Claus]

Guess what -- almost everyone is weak. Very few people are going to go back and read 30,40,50 pages of day one nonsense. Maybe this game has an disproportionate amount of such people -- but I know at least that I am not one of them. I hope I have support in this.

I agree with you about large day ones. I think a D1 would benefit most from 4 or 5 quick large bandwagons in succession, followed by a lynch.

Although I still think your current bandwagon sucks. If you had to vote someone else, who would you vote and why?

Wanna start a Thesp bandwagon?

I also want to see Cicero contribute more. Hey, cicero! Come back or you're not getting a xmas present this year.

[Guardian]

Guess what -- almost everyone is weak. Very few people are going to go back and read 30,40,50 pages of day one nonsense. Maybe this game has an disproportionate amount of such people -- but I know at least that I am not one of them. I hope I have support in this.

I agree with you about large day ones. I think a D1 would benefit most from 4 or 5 quick large bandwagons in succession, followed by a lynch.

.

Although I still think your current bandwagon sucks. If you had to vote someone else, who would you vote and why?

MBF. I hope I've made the reasoning clear in my posts. At the moment, however, I think my (and the other) votes on Iammars are, at the least, generating a goodly amount of discussion, and at best are on scum who made a mistake.

Wanna start a Thesp bandwagon?

Possibly. I find it odd that Thesp is a large supporter of both large wagons, and so vigorously. I also don't see the Gorrad-Iammars link -- I quoted his recent post in part because I was hoping it might encourage him and others to elaborate further on this -- reading this Gorrad-Iammars link made me wonder if Thesp is

trying

to create something out of nothing. I was hoping he'd respond before someone else started bringing up suspicion of Thesp too loudly; I'm sure that Thesp-scum would/will be on his guard, now.

In any event, Thesp, could you provide a more detailed analysis of this Iammars-Gorrad connection?

I also want to see Cicero contribute more. Hey, cicero! Come back or you're not getting a xmas present this year.

Cicero, and all others who are posting minimally.

Claus, could you outline briefly and in one post the reason for your suspicion of Gorrad?

[hasdgfas]

I would agree with the need for Thesp to elaborate on the Gorrad-Iammars connection as I don't see anything there.

Also, a "short" day would be nice, but most people don't think about that while playing.
Now, there are also too many large posts so far in this game, but I will do my best to get some info out of a re-read.