Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[farside22]

Farside, unfortunately I can come across as "wishy washy" as I try to be balanced and open minded in my posts. I'll try to be less open ended.

On the two interpretations debate, "the mafia think" sounds more like a scum rationalizing their thinking while trying to remain seemingly I innocent. There seems to be implied inside info, too. Hence it looks more like an act or perhaps a Freudian slip. The other one sounds more like the person doesnt have inside knowledge and looks less of rationalizing what happen. Or that's how I see it.

The last time I saw someone play that way they turned out to be scum. So trying to be the nice person who see's both side always set's my scum alert on high.

[Oman]

Hmm...I think i agree with everyone who has said "Considering why Jessie is alive != scummy. Saying Jessie is scum for being alive = Scummy"

[vollkan]

Farside, unfortunately I can come across as "wishy washy" as I try to be balanced and open minded in my posts.

You say this like it is part of your meta...Can you point to any completed town games where you exhibited "wishy-washiness"?

[farside22]

Farside, unfortunately I can come across as "wishy washy" as I try to be balanced and open minded in my posts.

You say this like it is part of your meta...Can you point to any completed town games where you exhibited "wishy-washiness"?

2 games one is still in ongoing and don't believe I can post that. However Newbie 520 the mafia person was killed first night by someone being wishy washy with his comments.

[Shteven]

I don't find much to fault fab with on his attack on me. I think the feeling was genuine, and not scum hunting down town. That said, there isn't all that many other errors in the thread I've picked up, so for now, I'm going to side with a post that's been mentioned a few times:

My issue with this statement is there is more likely then not at least one cop. I haven't seen anyone attempt a counter claim of any sort. I will grant you he should have played his hand better. If that is your best defense against the claim I'm just not buying it.

She's not asking for counter-claims, but also not warning not to make any. Calling for counter-claims would probably be too obvious, and get you in the hot seat immediately, so if you were trying to coax them, this would be your method.

That said, I am NOT at all certain about this, but it's the best I can go on for now. I feel it would be good to put a vote out there, no one is close to a lynch, plenty of time to discuss farside22 and others

Vote: Farside22

[LaptopGun]

I've only been in a handful of games there were a couple newbie games last summer which appear to have been deleted. I was in one or two with Fonz and SSF, so they can talk about that. Oman may have modded one of them, I'm not sure. The one "real" game I've been in was Open 50 (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6384) which got abandoned after almost 1/2 a year of activity/inactivity punctuated with some modkill hilarity. Several memebers of this game are refugees of that. Let's say things are better in this one.

Mod if I'm not suppose to reference abandoned games even though all the participates have moved on to other games, please delete the link. I'm sorry if that's the case.

[Oman]

Nope, I've never modded a game which included you LTG.

[Shteven]

@LTG: It's my understanding linking to any finished game is fine. Abandoned counts as finished, so no problem there.

well looking over the past few days of posting which i largely missed due to finals, I'm still kinda behind but im a little suspicious of Jesse because the person he investigated just happened to be Peers. I could be looking to far into it, but that's just my personal opinion.

I initially thought the same thing; but I asked Jesse about why he chose peers, and he gave a pretty good reason. Read the post Peers made, calling him scummy and voting for the claimed doctor on day 1. He was the only one voting Jesse that day, while 10 votes piled on the accused who claimed doctor. I'd say it's downright obvious that the cop in this case would be likely to pick his accuser.

I wish he had thought that scum wouldn't be that gambitty (it's a word, I say) and done some WIFOM on it, but I can't fault him for picking the obvious choice.

[LaptopGun]

Thanks for clearing that up, Oman. And thanks Shteven , I didn't know if I was doing something that was as

verboten

as posting a role pm.

So yeah, there's my attempt to document my playstyle. It took more posts than I really wanted to, but I'd rather have my facts straight.

[MadCrawdad]

I usually in other games have stated that a person hasn't had a counter claim (which in retrospect was stupid as there is a possiblity of more then one cop) so therefore Jesse claim seemed valid. When you stated about people not counter claiming I agreed because Six Aces already claimed cop and no other person should claim at that point since one was obviously lying.

Even if it wasn't obvious to you that one of them was lying, wouldn't you agree, that any counter claim (assuming it was legit) on Day 1 could ultimately prove disatrous for the town?

@ farside22

I posted this and you kind of zipped past it. Granted it may not have been completely clear that I was asking it of you, so would you mind touching on it now? Thanks.

[farside22]

I usually in other games have stated that a person hasn't had a counter claim (which in retrospect was stupid as there is a possiblity of more then one cop) so therefore Jesse claim seemed valid. When you stated about people not counter claiming I agreed because Six Aces already claimed cop and no other person should claim at that point since one was obviously lying.

Even if it wasn't obvious to you that one of them was lying, wouldn't you agree, that any counter claim (assuming it was legit) on Day 1 could ultimately prove disatrous for the town?

@ farside22

I posted this and you kind of zipped past it. Granted it may not have been completely clear that I was asking it of you, so would you mind touching on it now? Thanks.

Sorry about that. Well in this set up yes. In most set ups no. Usually in games I've been in there is only one cop. If someone is stupid enough to counter claim that means that one person is scum and the other is the cop. After six Aces claimed doctor there was no need to counter claim because between Jess and Six someone was obviously lying. Six tried to lie in order to make people wonder about Jess, but he could have done it to try and flush out the real doctor which is why I was quick to agree with Justin on no one else claiming. False claiming hurts scum more in my opinion, I wanted to see if someone would think to take that bait, but once again I forgot there is a possiblity of more then one cop. So yeah I screwed up with that thought.

[MadCrawdad]

I usually in other games have stated that a person hasn't had a counter claim (which in retrospect was stupid as there is a possiblity of more then one cop) so therefore Jesse claim seemed valid. When you stated about people not counter claiming I agreed because Six Aces already claimed cop and no other person should claim at that point since one was obviously lying.

Even if it wasn't obvious to you that one of them was lying, wouldn't you agree, that any counter claim (assuming it was legit) on Day 1 could ultimately prove disatrous for the town?

@ farside22

I posted this and you kind of zipped past it. Granted it may not have been completely clear that I was asking it of you, so would you mind touching on it now? Thanks.

Sorry about that. Well in this set up yes. In most set ups no. Usually in games I've been in there is only one cop. If someone is stupid enough to counter claim that means that one person is scum and the other is the cop.

After six Aces claimed doctor there was no need to counter claim because between Jess and Six someone was obviously lying

. Six tried to lie in order to make people wonder about Jess, but he could have done it to try and flush out the real doctor which is why I was quick to agree with Justin on no one else claiming. False claiming hurts scum more in my opinion, I wanted to see if someone would think to take that bait, but once again I forgot there is a possiblity of more then one cop. So yeah I screwed up with that thought.

(Bold in quote above is mine, for clarity)
Prior to Six Aces doc claim there was NO NEED for a cop counterclaim... Even if Jesse were lying about being cop, the town was likely much safer just lynching Six Aces (as opposed to having a real cop come out just to tell us that Jesse was lying). Once again ANY counterclaim by a real cop (whether there's 1 or 2) on Day 1 is likely to end badly for the town at some point.

FoS: Farside 22

[farside22]

I usually in other games have stated that a person hasn't had a counter claim (which in retrospect was stupid as there is a possiblity of more then one cop) so therefore Jesse claim seemed valid. When you stated about people not counter claiming I agreed because Six Aces already claimed cop and no other person should claim at that point since one was obviously lying.

Even if it wasn't obvious to you that one of them was lying, wouldn't you agree, that any counter claim (assuming it was legit) on Day 1 could ultimately prove disatrous for the town?

@ farside22

I posted this and you kind of zipped past it. Granted it may not have been completely clear that I was asking it of you, so would you mind touching on it now? Thanks.

Sorry about that. Well in this set up yes. In most set ups no. Usually in games I've been in there is only one cop. If someone is stupid enough to counter claim that means that one person is scum and the other is the cop.

After six Aces claimed doctor there was no need to counter claim because between Jess and Six someone was obviously lying

. Six tried to lie in order to make people wonder about Jess, but he could have done it to try and flush out the real doctor which is why I was quick to agree with Justin on no one else claiming. False claiming hurts scum more in my opinion, I wanted to see if someone would think to take that bait, but once again I forgot there is a possiblity of more then one cop. So yeah I screwed up with that thought.

(Bold in quote above is mine, for clarity)
Prior to Six Aces doc claim there was NO NEED for a cop counterclaim... Even if Jesse were lying about being cop, the town was likely much safer just lynching Six Aces (as opposed to having a real cop come out just to tell us that Jesse was lying). Once again ANY counterclaim by a real cop (whether there's 1 or 2) on Day 1 is likely to end badly for the town at some point.

FoS: Farside 22

In a different game if someone was dumb enough to counter claim with Jesse and we lynch Six aces we would have 2 scum's known. In this game as stated to death at this point I forgot the possiblity of a second cop.

@laptopgun:

Showing examples of your play style does not impress me. At of curiousity however since I'm not big on doing research did any of the ones you link show you as scum?

[somestrangeflea]

I was in one or two with Fonz and SSF, so they can talk about that.

The only other game I've been in with you was Newbie 349 where I mislynched LTGDoc... Incidentally, one of my posts was "This just screams Wishy-Washy."! So yeah, I'm going to support the meta on WishyWashyLTG...

[Spacecase]

i hate to ask, but does bringing up past games have any relevance?

[LaptopGun]

haha yeah. That one was great because the 2 mafia just sat back and then hammered me when I was down to one vote. Part of the problem was I really didn't answer enough stuff. Hopefully I can use such lessons to play better and actually help the town.

@farside I have not been mafia. I've been mislynched and night killed, but I've never been scum. There has been cases where I've looked scummy, of course, much to my displeasure.

@Spacecase, I'll give you a short rundown. In theory it shows how players acted in one game. If they are acting differently, it may reveal that they have a different role. What that means eactly can be highly subjective and open to interpretation. I believe, while by no means a smoking gun, can be valid evidence and has its uses. I suspect the mafia could also use it to their advantage, as in they use it to railroad someone. Or perhaps distract from other salient issues.

[farside22]

i hate to ask, but does bringing up past games have any relevance?

It's supposed to make him look less scummie showing his behavior is the same in other games where he was town. Odd that there is no scum behavior or showing off in this case.

[Shteven]

I would think it would be obvious to anyone who's played more than one game here that playing all roles as exactly the same as the other roles should be your main goal. Obviously, no one is perfect, and you are really trying to give the

appearance

of playing all roles the same more than you are really trying to play them the same way. But I've never really been a fan of meta; I feel most players should be wise enough to make it futile, among other reasons (mainly laziness to background check 3 games).

As for more relevant discussion, I don't really feel I have a good grip on this game. I blame the short day 1; I don't feel I've gotten to know many of you in this game yet. I'll probably reread the thread, but with my schedule that's more of a friday/weekend task. I'll keep you posted.

[vollkan]

i hate to ask, but does bringing up past games have any relevance?

It can, particularly in relation to very broad playstyle issues.

As an example, I often get attacked or questioned for being aggressive against people. I then just need to point out how I do this consistently and it takes the steam out of the argument.

However, something very specific like: "Well in Mini 123 I voted xyz who had claimed doc and I was town. Thus, my vote for the claimed doc here shows it is not scummy." is less valid.

[Jesse Gunn]

Sorry, not used to days taking so long. The only other game I played, the entire thing was over in about two weeks. Wish I had of come up with something worthwhile at night. I've read through this thread, and nothing is really jumping out at me. There's a few possibilities, but not really anybody worth lynching at the moment.

[farside22]

It seems this place is a ghost town.

[somestrangeflea]

i hate to ask, but does bringing up past games have any relevance?

Mafia is not solely about actions, but the context under which they are performed.

[Oman]

Yes, there is no universal scumtell, as something which is a scumtell for one person may not be for someone else.

[MadCrawdad]

Vote:LaptopGun

Trying to get on good terms with the mod, eh? I see how it's going to be

Anyone else notice that this was OpposedForce's only post of the game, and it was 2 1/2 weeks ago? Looks like his last post on the site, too... Did we lose him?

[-TinVision-]

Prods have been already been issued, where appropriate. Replacement is forthcoming, if it proves necessary.