PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Guardian]

Blah, Guardian feels like he's trying to make stuff up, which gives me a big Open 19 vibe which means he needs to be lynched ASAP.

I find it hard to believe you think that. The reasoned arguments here are a FAR cry from the bullshit I was espousing in 19. For everyone's refernce: In 19 I was scum and, for example, I pursued one player for 5+ game days, and one of my main arguments against him was

that he responded to posts

. Comparing that to my arguments here is absurd.

You've attacked people for confirming like a pirate and copying your haikus, among other things. There's also the "trap" you claimed to have set.

These are reasoned argument?

Yes.

Pirate -- definitely best lead to go on at the time I brought it up, and stayed the best lead for a while.

Copying my haikus -- Maybe I am wrong about finding it suspicious, but I find it suspicious, legitimately. I think scum see a townie doing it and it being acceptable, and then copy it, possibly subconsciously to fit in/feel town.

Guardian was town in this game.

I knew Gorrad was scum. He tried to copy my poems, I was going to bring that up as a scum tell but I thought y'all would find that ridiculous.

It "worked" as a tell in that game, but I didn't bring it up until Gorrad had died because I didn't want to draw suspicion for it. I didn't want to make the same mistake here.

"Trap" -- Yeah, I see no problems with this, with Thesp at 4 votes. What would have been scummy is if people quoted it and voted Thesp because of it.

---

I find it suspicious that Iammars's first long, substantive post of the game came right after I made a post about him.

Also, I don't like that this major contribution is a List of All the Players (tm) -- especially with how many people he just didn't comment on, that kind of thing is extremely easy for scum to do without leading a trail back to their partners. I'm fairly sure that I've expressed this same suspicion of LoAtPs elsewhere, if anyone cares.

---

It isnt minis. It's thesp and guardian.

You are both banned from quoting each other. Paraphrasing for the win.

I swear I'm going to be a good boy about this, though it's taking every ounce of my restraint. Guardian is lucky I'm not Twito.

Thesp, how am I "lucky" that you're not willing to engage in discussion with me? How are you being a "good boy" by not quoting what I say? How does that benefit anyone, whatsoever? And since when did cicero become the authority on what we are/aren't allowed to do?

[Gorrad]

I state again: I didn't copy poems due to my being scum, not even a little bit. If I had done so, I would be agreeing with you that it is a scumtell. Unless you think I'm lying about the mason claim and am scum trying to protect someone, there's no reason for me to lie about that now.

[Mgm]

Conspiring about a secret with a scum isn't a scumtell? I'm not arguing for Thok being scum. I arguing that, assuming Thesp is scum, Thok may be scum with Thesp.

Of course conspiring with a scum is a scumtell, but we can't make the assumption that is what is going on until Thesp is dead and confirmed scum.

Why isn't he hanging yet?

[Kison]

Hi,

Thesp, I know you're busy fighting off the Guardian Devil, but if you wouldn't mind not ignoring my questions, that would be appreciated! Thanks!

On the subject of Massclaims, I do believe they are good for Town, and I have yet to see a situation where it was, indeed, not beneficial to Town. The reason I dropped the issue, and stopped answering questions, is I don't understand theory and such, and I can't really answer why I believe massclaims are good. I simply do. The other reason I dropped the issue, is because I don't want to see a massclaim in this game (at least, not this early), as I believe it could destroy the game, not necessarily in a Town loss, but it would ruin the air of mystery surrounding it as a Stoofer game, and quite possibly make it less fun.

Correct me if I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but you believe a mass claim would be more beneficial at this point in the game than it would be detrimental, loss of game mystery aside? And come on, you can't claim you have no idea why a mass claim could be either beneficial or detrimental; that's a total cop out to taking responsibility for supporting something potentially harmful to the Town.

Question for Twomz : Despite being limited on time, you have managed to keep up with the game to an extent. Has anything in particular struck you as odd & suspicious?

So, I feel like Thok and Thesp were communicating about something, and also I see Thok's recurring theme of defending Thesp for actions similar to what others have done, and trying to redirect discussion about Thesp to discussion of other candidates.

OK. I can agree with the second point here, but what on earth would they be communicating to one another that they both would not already know in the first place[as scum]?

Those less actives I find suspicious, like Kison

Kison comes and goes like the wind. It's a tragic reality.

Gorrad said he didn't want to mess up another "secret plan" like he did earlier, so he put a weak FOS on to see where it went. Even so, he explicitly stated he didn't like the Iammars wagon, but that he'd like to hear what Iammars had to say.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHY IT SHOULD THROW UP RED FLAGS. IT'S INDICATING WISHY-WASHINESS, WHICH IS MORE OFTEN SEEN IN SCUM.

Yeah? What about a townie power role who has some suspicion on him and doesn't want to be outed, or a vanilla who doesn't want to be lynched?

I wouldn't condone fear of taking a stance. Yes, some townies do it, but it is not pro-town behavior, and as a result, should not be dismissed right off the bat.

And they are good points.

now if they were good points i wouldnt have pointed them out as fluff, but as good points.

Do me a favor and point out how his points are fluff. I'm interested, and it gives you the opportunity to get back into the game.

Vote stays for now.

[Twomz]

Question for Twomz : Despite being limited on time, you have managed to keep up with the game to an extent. Has anything in particular struck you as odd & suspicious?

I have been able to, for the most part, keep up with the thread, but there has been little time to read over or to take in the longer posts. If something had struck me as suspicious, I would have pointed it out as soon as I saw it (regardless of how silly it was). I don't filter my posts unless it's because pointing something out or saying something would hurt the town more than help, personal survival is pretty low on my to do list in a mafia game (finding scum is at the top, even though most people don't believe me when I say it).

I have a couple of things to do, then I should be able to do a reread this afternoon. I just have to get all my stuff done before my girlfriend gets done with her band stuff, or else there's no way she'll let me sit here for an hour to do it >.<

[JordanA24]

Very sorry for my absence recently, a lot of schoolwork recently and an unreliable internet connection of late have resulted in me getting behind in terms of Mafia.

I'm writing this as I read.

Well explained Erg0, that's pretty much what I was on about.

I really fail to see how someone confirming in piratespeak is a decent basis for a vote, it is a very questionable scumtell that has a simpler possible explaination about it.

How did you come to the conclusion that piratespeak is a "questionable scumtell". That requires the assumption that pirates are scum.

You've slipped up. You're a ninja, aren't you?

I'm the one arguing against it being a scumtell at all, never mind a questionable one. IMO, you're jumping to conclusions and throwing mud around without reading the thread properly, which is very

FOS

worthy IMO.

TSQ's Post 145 seems very bandwagonny to me, he simply says that the bandwagon is a good Day 1 bandwagon, which, from experience, is a small red flag for me, especially with the "Pressure for the good cause" ending of the post.

My few posts? Way to poison my well. I've been V/LA this weekend judging a debate tournament, so I wasn't even here when the thread opened up. Since I've gotten back today at 5, I've made 3-4 posts.

FOS:Thok

for the blatant attempt to poison my well by claiming on lurking, but not actually coming out and saying it.

Where did you say you were V/LA, if anywhere?

I think the rest of the town will disagree.

Here, you're making an assumption about the rest of the town's opinions to strengthen your argument, your climb up my scumlist continues.

Wow, this game is proud home to some of the cruder attempts at deception that I've seen in a while.

I have enough faith in Stoofer as a mod to believe that he would not set up any player to the point that the first words out of their mouth would result in them unwittingly revealing themselves to be scum.

Alluding to a role-type on your first post can out you in any flavored game, especially one with a mod known for intricate and deceptive setups.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with "faith in Stoofer as a mod". Could you enlighten me?

I simply meant that I don't think that Stoofer would deliberately set someone up to believe it was safe to say something flavour-based that it was not, in fact, safe to say. The Mars thing seems to be largely based on the idea that his role PM somehow led him to think that it would be a good idea to pretend to be a pirate, when this has clearly turned out not to be the case. I think it's far more likely that he was just being whimsical, not attempting some gambit that backfired on him.

QFT, Erg0's giving me a good feeling right now.

I already did respond. Who's disregarding whom now?

You've responded to a fraction of things I've addressed to you, and I don't believe you've said anything that I haven't already re-responded to. I apologize If I was hyperbolic in saying you hadn't responded to anything. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say you haven't responded to anything about yourself with any degree of depth OR to my satisfaction.

Backtrack.

Happy Birthday. Now get lynched.

This is an unreasonably strong suggestion at this time in the game IMO, do you seriously think that, at this point in the game, there was enough evidence against Mars to lynch him?

so beyond just reading new posts won't be happening anytime soon >.<

I hypocritically accuse Twomz of being scum because of this.

This is a huge red flag for me, Twomz gave a

very

good explaination as to why he expects not to be able to post in the near future, and you still accuse him of being scum because of the fact he's busy! What makes it worse is that you admit it's hypocritical, so why is it so difficult to believe that Twomz is going to be genuinly unable to post when you yourself won't be able to?

I feel that MBF has had two good scumtells so far, so I feel that he's a good place to put a Day 1 vote atm.

Unvote whoever, Vote: MBF

. Please note that because I'm writing as I'm reading, the vote may change further down the post.

Also, I don't like when people say "Oh, I have no leads". Don't be timid, we won't laugh at you if you tell us who you suspect!

I honestly don't see anyone standing out right now- there's a lot of bad play here, enough that no one person stands out among it all. I'm going to reread soon (probably later today), but a vast majority of this thread has either been attack of me or attack of Iammars, neither of which I find based on good nor on solid tells.

FoS: Everyone on either bandwagon

.

The fact you seem rather unwilling to give opinions worries me somewhat.

Bah, gtg now, so I'll post this now and post more later. It's unlikely I'll post again today, so tomorrow, hopefully I'll complete this.

[mikeburnfire]

do you seriously think that, at this point in the game, there was enough evidence against Mars to lynch him?

As good as any other reason

Twomz gave a very good explaination as to why he expects not to be able to post in the near future, and you still accuse him of being scum because of the fact he's busy!

I wasn't being serious.

[Thesp]

Thesp, I know you're busy fighting off the Guardian Devil, but if you wouldn't mind not ignoring my questions, that would be appreciated! Thanks!

Is this what you're referring to?

Hi Thesp. How are you doing? Well? Not well? What do you think of Gorrad now that he claimed Mason? What do you think of Iammars now that Gorrad has claimed Mason?

I figured the questions are sort of obvious, to some extent. I'm doing fine, though a bit irritated with this game. I think Gorrad is almost certainly town (And it's not worth considering otherwise now), and I am still inclined to think Iammars is more likely to be town now based on things indepndent of Gorrad.

I find myself uncomfortable with Skruffs, as I read through.

Vote: Kaleidoscope

, though my vote would be just as happy on Sir Tornado or Skruffs.

[Iammars]

Iammars, do you believe everybody in this game has been classified by Stoofer as either a pirate or a ninja? If so, why?

No, but I'd rather not reveal those reasons at the present moment.

Wait, you meant that bandwagon that I was on until you posted then I got off over 15 pages ago? Have you caught up on reading yet? Here I was thinking later on in the day, like when I voted for Gorrad.

Yes, I've caught up on reading. I just made that a stream of consciousness post. Whenever I saw something that I needed to comment on, I commented on it, no matter where I was in the thread.
And yeah, you've got the right post.

It "worked" as a tell in that game, but I didn't bring it up until Gorrad had died because I didn't want to draw suspicion for it. I didn't want to make the same mistake here.

Hindsight is 20/20.

I find it suspicious that Iammars's first long, substantive post of the game came right after I made a post about him.

Also, I don't like that this major contribution is a List of All the Players (tm) -- especially with how many people he just didn't comment on, that kind of thing is extremely easy for scum to do without leading a trail back to their partners. I'm fairly sure that I've expressed this same suspicion of LoAtPs elsewhere, if anyone cares

Or it could be that I was prodded by Mr Stoofer. You seem to like jumping to conclusions about my actions.
And my list wasn't as much a LoAtP but a post where I put down all of my thoughts as I was reading the thread and organized them by the player list for ease of reading.

And it seems that my random vote is still on.

Unvote

[Mgm]

Well explained Erg0, that's pretty much what I was on about.

I really fail to see how someone confirming in piratespeak is a decent basis for a vote, it is a very questionable scumtell that has a simpler possible explaination about it.

How did you come to the conclusion that piratespeak is a "questionable scumtell". That requires the assumption that pirates are scum.

You've slipped up. You're a ninja, aren't you?

I'm the one arguing against it being a scumtell at all, never mind a questionable one. IMO, you're jumping to conclusions and throwing mud around without reading the thread properly, which is very

FOS

worthy IMO.

No, I'm the one arguing it's not a scumtell at all. You said it was a "questionable scumtell". That implies it is a scumtell to begin with. What you say you're arguing doesn't match what you actually said.

THAT is word a

FOS

.

[Twomz]

So, earlier I started a reread... I got a little less than 1/2 way through cicero's posts and I could no longer take it. Seriously guys, it's day 1. We don't need autobiography's we just need pressure people and see their reactions.

One thing I did manage to notice is the shotgun effect of the votes in this game. We have less than 2 weeks to get THIRTEEN votes on a player, and the record right now is... four.

I'll even volunteer to go first. That's right, vote for me like I just claimed cop in a mountainous game. Let's just do something besides bicker back and forth without doing anything... it's freaken Day 1.

Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

for no apparent reason other than I always think he's scum for not saying why he votes and never ever posting any content that I can remember.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Content is overrated. You should vote for the people you consider suspicious.

[cicero]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Content is overrated. You should vote for the people you consider suspicious.[/quote]

unvote. Vote kaleidoscope.

Ok.

[Skruffs]

Thesp:
What about me makes you uncomfortable?

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Thesp: 4 (Guardian, hasdgfas, Gorrad, Mgm)
KaleiÐoscøpe: 4 (Fritzler, Thesp, Twomz, cicero)
Twomz: 3 (KaleiÐoscøpe, Thestatusquo, mikeburnfire)
Gorrad: 2 (Flameaxe, The Fonz)
Guardian: 2 (Erg0, Thok)
cicero: 1 (UltimaAvalon)
Rosso Carne: 1 (Kison)
Sir Tornado: 1 (Claus)
Skruffs: 1 (Samruc)
mikeburnfire: 1 (JordanA24)
Iammars: 1 (Sir Tornado)

Not voting: 4 (Skruffs, Rosso Carne, MrBuddyLee, Iammars)

13 to lynch!

Deadline will be ~12th February.

Under Rule [05], nobody would be lynched at deadline.

[Mgm]

Thesp:
What about me makes you uncomfortable?

Don't bother with the chit chat. Just lynch him already.

[mikeburnfire]

I retract my vote on Twomz.

unvote

[Erg0]

Hooray, we've entered the "I dunno, let's just lynch Kscope" phase of the day!

No, I'm the one arguing it's not a scumtell at all. You said it was a "questionable scumtell". That implies it is a scumtell to begin with. What you say you're arguing doesn't match what you actually said.

THAT is word a FOS.

This seems like a really weak semantic argument to me.

[The Fonz]

[quote="Twomz"]

Vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

for no apparent reason other than I always think he's scum for not saying why he votes and never ever posting any content that I can remember.[/quote]

I'm really not comfortable with wagonning someone for something you admit he 'always' does. I don't think Kscope is one of those players whose very existence is town-threatening, and I don't think two weeks to deadline is a reason to lynch just anybody.

[Guardian]

unvote vote: Iammars

We have a little over a week to reach a majority. I don't think we're going to get to a perfect lynch by then, and I think Iammars has been one of the most suspicious players, and I think his lynch is the most information-providing one possible.

Almost everyone has taken some stance or another on Iammars, and while his posts aren't that helpful in finding buddies if he is scum, the posts of everyone else about him are.

Combine this with my thinking that, aside from Thesp, I think he is the most suspicious person in the game, and I think we should lynch him. Additionally, Thesp has the spotlight on him in part because he is contributing so much, and as a player who likes to contribute a lot and gets greatly frustrated when wagons form on me because of that (oh god, Big Love Mafia ), I don't particularly want to encourage going after the most frequent posters. Thesp does look quite suspicious to me, and if a wagon develops on Thesp, I will get back on it, and I won't complain, but I want to make a case for an Iammars lynch:

1. Very scummy.
   
2. Most information providing lynch possible.
   
3. Not getting rid of a (trying to be) helpful townie if he is lynched and is town.

My reasons for finding him scummy can be found in post 612 and

I find it suspicious that Iammars's first long, substantive post of the game came right after I made a post about him.

Also, I don't like that this major contribution is a List of All the Players (tm) -- especially with how many people he just didn't comment on, that kind of thing is extremely easy for scum to do without leading a trail back to their partners. I'm fairly sure that I've expressed this same suspicion of LoAtPs elsewhere, if anyone cares.

For the second time, I find myself encouraging Iammars votes. Go ahead .

---

To respond to Iammars's most recent bit:

I find it suspicious that Iammars's first long, substantive post of the game came right after I made a post about him.

Also, I don't like that this major contribution is a List of All the Players (tm) -- especially with how many people he just didn't comment on, that kind of thing is extremely easy for scum to do without leading a trail back to their partners. I'm fairly sure that I've expressed this same suspicion of LoAtPs elsewhere, if anyone cares

Or it could be that I was prodded by Mr Stoofer.

Were

you prodded by Mr Stoofer?

uot;]You seem to like jumping to conclusions about my actions.

I'd like you to further justify this sentence; I like analyzing your actions, definitely. Jumping to conclusions seems a bit strong.

And my list wasn't as much a LoAtP but a post where I put down all of my thoughts as I was reading the thread and organized them by the player list for ease of reading.

So your post, which had a list of all the players with your comments on each player, was not a list of all the players? I'm a bit baffled how you might justify saying that.

[Mgm]

Hooray, we've entered the "I dunno, let's just lynch Kscope" phase of the day!

No, I'm the one arguing it's not a scumtell at all. You said it was a "questionable scumtell". That implies it is a scumtell to begin with. What you say you're arguing doesn't match what you actually said.

THAT is word a FOS.

This seems like a really weak semantic argument to me.

It might be a semantic argument, but it's a bleeping contradiction. That is not weak.

And my list wasn't as much a LoAtP but a post where I put down all of my thoughts as I was reading the thread and organized them by the player list for ease of reading.
So your post, which had a list of all the players with your comments on each player, was not a list of all the players? I'm a bit baffled how you might justify saying that.

It was exactly what he said: all the responses he needed to give sorted by the player who asked them. Even if that IS a LOATP, I fail to see how that is a bad thing. Would you rather he didn't answer questions aimed at him?

[Mgm]

And now with proper quotation marks:

Hooray, we've entered the "I dunno, let's just lynch Kscope" phase of the day!

No, I'm the one arguing it's not a scumtell at all. You said it was a "questionable scumtell". That implies it is a scumtell to begin with. What you say you're arguing doesn't match what you actually said.

THAT is word a FOS.

This seems like a really weak semantic argument to me.

It might be a semantic argument, but it's a bleeping contradiction. That is not weak.

And my list wasn't as much a LoAtP but a post where I put down all of my thoughts as I was reading the thread and organized them by the player list for ease of reading.

So your post, which had a list of all the players with your comments on each player, was not a list of all the players? I'm a bit baffled how you might justify saying that.

It was exactly what he said: all the responses he needed to give sorted by the player who asked them. Even if that IS a LOATP, I fail to see how that is a bad thing. Would you rather he didn't answer questions aimed at him?

[Thestatusquo]

Unvote, vote Kscope

. This is a good wagon.

[Claus]

Meh. Are you guys really going to give SirT a lurker pass? sad. Well, he is not the only one being given one.

Now now, Mars, Thesp or Kscope?

Thesp: I don't want to lynch you nomore. We should be getting rid of scummy and lurky players early in the game, not scummy and wordy players.

Kscope: Yeah, I could certainly jump on his bandwagon, but not before making a few questions:
- Who should we be bandwagoning, instead of you?
- Of your current bandwagoners, who is more likely to be scum, and who is more likely to be town?
- What do you think of the Thesp/Guardian debate?

Iammars: I like guardian's new reasons more than his old reasons, and Iammars did not answer the questions I made him - to the point of quoting a joke statement of mine in his "all players" post, instead of answering my question. So hey:

unvote. Vote Iammars

[Thestatusquo]

Claus, I find it a pretty big scum tell when a player tells another to do something to advance the game state when they in that post do nothing to advance it themselves.