Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

I'm trying to say that I'm, for now, convinced that he's not faking. I admit that there's a fair possibility that he is, but I don't think so, at the moment. My point was that the nature of the PR--being only able to communicate in votes of a single letter, makes it too difficult to fake. Indeed, faking it would get tiresome and annoying to SF soon, so if he's faking it he's bound to stop anytime in the near future. This is why I'm convinced that he isn't faking. It's just too fiddly, if he could just choose to speak normally. About the alignment, I don't have any feelings yet. Possibly townie, although he hasn't yet contributed, which can be because we were questioning him about his PR.

Wow.. This post is really wishy washy.

Also, you're convinced he's not faking because if he was, he's stop doing so in the near future?

If you're gifted with the ability to see the future, please say so. It might be a very helpful tool winning this game.

[SensFan]

How is lynching SensFan helpful to town? As far as I can tell, that's nothing more than a OMGPRS lynch. Yes, it's annoying, but he hasn't actually done anything scummy unless you can prove he's actually faking his PR.

But how would he be able to do something scummy at all with this PR? Other than using his vote, he can hardly do anything producive for the town. And since such a PR is very rare in a mini normal, I'd rather say he's faking his PR unless we can prove he's actually not.

Vote: H
Vote: O
Vote: W

Vote: C
Vote: A
Vote: N

Vote: I

Vote: P
Vote: R
Vote: O
Vote: V
Vote: E

Vote: I
Vote: T

SensFan looks confused.

[Korts]

I'm trying to say that I'm, for now, convinced that he's not faking. I admit that there's a fair possibility that he is, but I don't think so, at the moment. My point was that the nature of the PR--being only able to communicate in votes of a single letter, makes it too difficult to fake. Indeed, faking it would get tiresome and annoying to SF soon, so if he's faking it he's bound to stop anytime in the near future. This is why I'm convinced that he isn't faking. It's just too fiddly, if he could just choose to speak normally. About the alignment, I don't have any feelings yet. Possibly townie, although he hasn't yet contributed, which can be because we were questioning him about his PR.

Wow.. This post is really wishy washy.

Also, you're convinced he's not faking because if he was, he's stop doing so in the near future?

If you're gifted with the ability to see the future, please say so. It might be a very helpful tool winning this game.

Geez, how can I say it? I think he isn't faking, because no-one who has any sense would voluntarily communicate in votes of single letters. If he wanted to fake a PR, he could've thought up an easier one.

[Korts]

And I do have to agree with SF, it can't really be proven, can it?

[Korts]

I was assuming you were trying to get SensFan to admit it's fake. It never crossed my mind that you could actually believe that he might be faking but still town.

I don't get it. You thought I wanted SensFan to admit it was fake, which, because you didn't believe a townies would fake a PR, would catch us a scum, yet you think it's a point against me? I'm not completely following you here.

CESc has a point. I mean, what you're trying to say is you thought CESc was asking SF to admit to being scum? Cos in your opinion, as far as I gather, faking a PR can only mean that he's scum, so if he admits to faking, he admits to being scum. And you really thought that SF would admit to faking if he was scum? Great idea! Hey all you scum, raise your hands, please!

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

Geez, how can I say it? I think he isn't faking, because no-one who has any sense would voluntarily communicate in votes of single letters. If he wanted to fake a PR, he could've thought up an easier one.

If anyone would want to fake a PR, that player is making a lot of unnecessary effort anyway, wether the PR is difficult or not. It's a fair point, I guess, but far from convincing.

[Xylthixlm]

I don't get it. You thought I wanted SensFan to admit it was fake, which, because you didn't believe a townies would fake a PR, would catch us a scum, yet you think it's a point against me? I'm not completely following you here.

CESc admits to lying --> null tell. (There's a reason for a townie to do it, but I oppose lying in general.)
CESc doesn't admit to lying, doesn't provide evidence --> scum tell.
CESc doesn't admit to lying, provides evidence --> I get confused.

[Xylthixlm]

How is lynching SensFan helpful to town? As far as I can tell, that's nothing more than a OMGPRS lynch. Yes, it's annoying, but he hasn't actually done anything scummy unless you can prove he's actually faking his PR.

He hasn't done anything

helpful

either! He hasn't even tried to look for scum.

SensFan's complete contributions this game:

"HI ALL"
"I ALSO HATE THEM"

SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth while holding up one finger, then nods his head forward-and backwards once while holding up two fingers, then side-to-side once while holding up three fingers.

"I CAN VOTE PLAYERS JUST NOT WORDS"

SensFan clasps his hand ever his mouth.

SensFan looks as confused as Xylthixlm and Elias.

SensFan slaps his head a few times. Looking into space for a minute, he finally breaks into a grin. He pulls his hands out, and begins to form a box around himself, defining the walls by seemingly pressing his palms against them.

SensFan looks extremely pleased.

"ALL THESE VOTES FOR A PR"
"TEST X"
"WHY THINK FAKE"
"I CAN NOT TALK"
"WORDS TO EASY"

SensFan starts randomly voting people, then pauses. After thinking for a few minutes, he begins to act out his thoughts, charade-style.

SensFan shakes head side-to-side frantically. SensFan clasps his hand over his mouth, then immediately uses the provided voting signs to communicate, filling out 26 of them with a single letter. He does this for a while, and when people begin to get frustrated, he pauses, looks annoyed and begins to think. Then he puts down the signs, and starts to mime his actions.

SensFan forms an invisible box around himself. Then he pretends to climb a set of stairs, then he folds his legs, as if sitting on an invisible chair.

"I CAN CONTRIBUTE"
"I DIDNT OMGUS"

SensFan looks awfully depressed, slumping down onto a non-existent chair.

"HOW CAN I PROVE IT"

I see a lot of defensiveness, and attempts to explain his post restriction. I see zero discussion of other players. Even

without

the post restriction, I would be very suspicious of SensFan for not scumhunting at all.

[Xylthixlm]

CESc has a point. I mean, what you're trying to say is you thought CESc was asking SF to admit to being scum? Cos in your opinion, as far as I gather, faking a PR can only mean that he's scum, so if he admits to faking, he admits to being scum.

And you really thought that SF would admit to faking if he was scum?

Great idea! Hey all you scum, raise your hands, please!

I think the chance that he stops faking is pretty much zero anyways.

Holding back my opinions - or worse, lying through my teeth, like CESc is doing - wouldn't help.

FOS: Korts

for building a strawman argument that is directly contradicted by what I've previously said.

[jerubbaal]

I haven't been at MTGS very long, the examples I cited are the ones which people seem to talk about the most. I read a little bit of one of the later Matrix Mafias, but I don't think it was the one in question. The others I haven't read.

Faking a PR=lying. LAL. This seems like a really solid line of reasoning to me, I don't know why we would compromise it simply because some townies are dumb and fake PRs. As CES has already pointed out, he's a liability, in that he cannot contribute to the same degree as the rest of the town is able. It honestly seems like win/win to me here. Get rid of a scum who's faking a PR, or get rid of a townie who's either dumb for faking a PR or significantly impaired in his ability to contribute toward discussion. Losing any townie is obviously a step in the wrong direction, but this whole thing seems like a very low risk/high value lynch.

All this being said, we should at least get a claim before we really push for the lynch.

[Xylthixlm]

All this being said, we should at least get a claim before we really push for the lynch.

So do you think that we shouldn't lynch him unless he claims? That doesn't seem like a very good strategy.

[Elias_the_thief]

Faking a PR=lying. LAL. This seems like a really solid line of reasoning to me, I don't know why we would compromise it simply because some townies are dumb and fake PRs.

Just so you know, LAL is a retarded strategy. so yeah. Anyways, to all the people who are saying that scum does not gain from a faked PR, youre wrong. For one, it allows them just the sort of WIFOM protection your statement is suggesting, two, it allows them to limit their contribution without being accused of lurking.

Finally, I dont know why town would fake PR, but Ive seen it done and it happens. Either way, I'm for the Sens lynch. I think that hes scum, I definately dont believe the PR, and he'll only be a low contributor and distraction throughout the game.

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

I, too, am all for an SF lynch, but I'd rather wait until everyone has had a chance to check in and give his/her opinion before we end the day.

[ting =)]

@ CES, xyl, jeru, elias.

Okay, I give that he hasn't contributed much, I can't quite deny that, but every townie we lynch puts us one step closer to a mafia win. I just think we need a more concrete reason to lynch someone. He hasn't done anything particularly pro-town, sure, but until he actually does something decidedly scummy, I'm against a sens lynch.

Also, I'll be out of town for a few days. I'll try to go online when I can, but no guarantees. =(

[SensFan]

we should at least get a claim before we really push for the lynch.

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: P

Unvote

[Khelvaster]

EDIT: I thought Sensfan wanted me to put down a vote for whoever the cop was (if there is a cop). When rereading that post, it is quite apparent that he wasn't trying to put a vote on a cop, but was instead posting C-O-P, without a vote for that..

[Korts]

So now we need to wait for a possible counterclaim.

[Xylthixlm]

Wow. I hate the idea of metagaming the moderator but... either Khelvaster is extraordinarily confused, or his reaction proves that SensFan is not really a cop.

Vote stands.

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

Okay, I give that he hasn't contributed much, I can't quite deny that, but every townie we lynch puts us one step closer to a mafia win. I just think we need a more concrete reason to lynch someone. He hasn't done anything particularly pro-town, sure, but until he actually does something decidedly scummy, I'm against a sens lynch.

Isn't 'not doing anything protown' scummy? At least I think it is.

@ The cop claim:
I know this is because it's because of what the mod posted, but in the current situation, I don't even want anyone to counterclaim. Sensfan got caught and wants to take down a power role with him. I guess I'll

Vote SensFan

.

[Korts]

Or he's cop and wants to get to investigate this night. Maybe.

[Elias_the_thief]

yay for standstills! Theres certainly no reason to look for a counterclaim. the bit about khel. being confused simply acts to confuse me, as i dont know what the original post before he editted it entailed...

Ugh. This game has become rather mucky. I'm thinking that Khel being confused shows that sens is not cop. I also think we should lynch him to clear the waters, so to speak.

[Xylthixlm]

I'm referring to the edited post. If SensFan was the cop, Khelvaster would have realized that SensFan's post was supposed to be a claim. The fact that he didn't, and in fact thought that SensFan was trying to vote the cop (an unlikely interpretation if SensFan

is

the cop!), indicates that SensFan isn't what he says... or that Khelvaster has totally forgotten SensFan's role.

[Elias_the_thief]

what im saying is i dont know what he originally said in the post before editting it (if that was directed at me). I dunno, im really confused about the whole situation right now.

[Elias_the_thief]

In addition, im thinking we could allow him to survive one day and see if he delivers any results tomorrow, but im not even sure what we'd do with the info.

[Xylthixlm]

Assume SensFan is the cop. Read Khelvaster's post. Do you understand why he got confused?
Assume SensFan isn't the cop. Read Khelvaster's post. Do you understand why he got confused?