PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

KaleiÐoscøpe: 8 (Fritzler, Thesp, Twomz, cicero, Thestatusquo, Claus, hasdgfas, Rosso Carne)
Guardian: 3 (Erg0, Thok, Mgm)
Gorrad: 2 (Flameaxe, The Fonz)
Thesp: 1 (Gorrad)
Iammars: 1 (Sir Tornado)
Twomz: 1 (KaleiÐoscøpe)
Rosso Carne: 1 (Kison)
mikeburnfire: 1 (JordanA24)

Not voting: 7 (Skruffs, Iammars, mikeburnfire, Samruc, Guardian, UltimaAvalon, MrBuddyLee)

13 to lynch!

Deadline: 9am GMT Monday 11th February.

A reminder of the deadline rule:

[quote][05] At deadline, a person will be lynched if they have a majority of voters voting for them. That means you can be lynched with just one vote if only one person is voting. [/quote]

Currently 18 players are voting, which would mean that (since nobody has 10 votes), nobody would be lynched at deadline.

[Mgm]

Also, I read something of Guardian's that confused me.

Again this makes me think we should get a lurker. I (wooh look, diverting attention to the biggest wagon) am beginning to appreciate the wagon on Kscope. I think Iammars is better, but heck, Kscope has a better shot at being scum than me, and his play right now would be GREAT play as scum in the Thok scumhunting world.

Guardian, why do you think Kscop has a better shot at being scum than you? Also, why would his play of active lurking be great? Furthermore, why do you want to go after lurkers?

At least Kscope is contributing something (even if it is not helpful).

Mod

, can we have the inactives replaced?

[Guardian]

Also, I read something of Guardian's that confused me.

Again this makes me think we should get a lurker. I (wooh look, diverting attention to the biggest wagon) am beginning to appreciate the wagon on Kscope. I think Iammars is better, but heck, Kscope has a better shot at being scum than me, and his play right now would be GREAT play as scum in the Thok scumhunting world.

Guardian, why do you think Kscop has a better shot at being scum than you?

Because I know I'm not scum.

Also, why would his play of active lurking be great?

This is directed at Thok -- I said in the THok scumhunting world. Thok, and correct me if I am wrong, has not been at all interested in looking at lurkers except for a few throwaway posts (notably where he voted and unvoted RC in 3 posts over the course of as many days). He instead has had two main targets of TSQ and me. He targeted TSQ when TSQ was posting a lot, TSQ's posting has lessened, who does THok go after? Me, possibly the player with the most posts and original thought in the game thus far.

Thok seems to only really be considering active posters in his scum hunting, which made me say Kscope's lurking would be ideal play to get around Thok's scrutiny.

Furthermore, why do you want to go after lurkers?

Cicero's points make sense; it makes most sense for a scum to lurk right now. This is (again, hard for me to swallow, ego and all) making me reconsider how much I am right about Thesp -- does it really make sense for him, as scum, to make BS cases? Not really -- even if I don't believe what he is saying, it makes sense that he does. I'm going to continue to ponder this.

Why Kscope? Personally, I don't think there is a better chance of him being scum than RC or Sir T (although supposedly Sir T has v/la so that is different, so maybe Kscope has better chance than him.) But, as an active lurker, he isn't really even trying to contribute.

OF the lurkers, I definitely think Iammars is the best shot at being scum; Stoofer missed it but my vote should be there, I thought.

vote: Iammars

.

I'll retract this if neccesary to make a lynch happen, but I highly prefer an Iammars lynch to a Kscope one.

[Twomz]

@ KaleiÐoscøpe: I never claimed mason. He was saying that I wasn't as confirmed as the supposed masons were, but 1 vote wasn't going to get my lynched (unless EVERYONE else unvoted).

[Mgm]

Thok seems to only really be considering active posters in his scum hunting, which made me say Kscope's lurking would be ideal play to get around Thok's scrutiny.

Yeah sure, avoid scrutiny by Thok by lurking is an 'ideal play' IF you don't take into account the other 20-odd players in the game. That is Crap Logic(TM) if I ever saw it. Stop fuelling this senseless wagon.

I think my vote is just in the right place, even though the mod forgot about my earlier unvote in that last count.

[Guardian]

Mgm, it would be so much easier to take you seriously if you had

any

idea of the context of me bringing that up -- something you'd get by reading the past page.

[Mgm]

To clarify:
1. I don't believe lynching Kscope will give us any information beyond his alignment.
2. I don't believe lurking is a sign of scumhood. It is a sign of 'real life' and 'taking on too many games'.

[Mgm]

Mgm, it would be so much easier to take you seriously if you had

any

idea of the context of me bringing that up -- something you'd get by reading the past page.

I do. You keep bringing up, the "I'm active, so lynch someone less active" argument and it simply isn't flying with me. Besides, I don't care if you take me seriously. I care much more for the opinion of the other players who don't have a vested interest in the argument I'm attacking.

[Guardian]

I disagree highly with both above statements.

People have begun to take stances on Kscope. I believe his lynch will give some info, though not an optimal level.

Lurking is most definitely a sign of scumhood in some instances.

[Mgm]

BTW: 730 and 731 were simulposted.

[cicero]

To clarify:
1. I don't believe lynching Kscope will give us any information beyond his alignment.
2. I don't believe lurking is a sign of scumhood. It is a sign of 'real life' and 'taking on too many games'.

You should address the argument that I made instead of the strawman called "only scum lurk" set out above.

Also a hat tip to Rosso Carne for the most hypocritical wagon vote I've ever seen. Rosso Carne, why are you voting KScope and why is he a better lynch than you?

[Mgm]

The context was that cicero was wondering why any scum would behave the way you were doing; my point was that I'd expect you to be aggressive independent of your alignment, so that cicero's comment about scum wouldn't necessarily be applicable to you.

I can see Guardian scum being very aggressive. Please don't misrepresent me if you can help it.

How is this possibly a misrepresentation? Your comment about seeing Guardian acting that way as scum was made after my comment about Guardian, and was a reaction to the comment I made about Guardian.

You mean this post?

You are not reading closely or I'm not understanding how you use the term. Let me break it down into quick and dirty shorthand:

Your point - Guardian is scum because he is pushing a disingenuous case against Iammars.

My point - whether Guardian is scum or whether he is town I think he believes his case against Iammars.

It has nothing to do with how active or how aggressive he is. We can argue about whether Guardian-scum would aggressively push shit cases against townies. Maybe he would. (Guardian himself points out correctly that this falls prey to WIFOM.) But I am NOT saying "Thesp and Guardian post a lot. Therefore they must be town." or "Thesp and Guardian ask a lot of questions and push cases against other players, therefore they must be town."

My point should be clear on re-read.

[cicero]

That post had nothing to do with lurkers... try again.

[Erg0]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: a strong Kscope wagon is almost always a sign that the town has given up and is taking the easy lynch. It doesn't even let us find scum on the wagon because almost everyone has given little to no reasoning beyond "he's lurking".

[Guardian]

Erg0, I agree with the above post in that I think the town is going for an easy lynch on Scope.

I feel that we disagree, however, in that Mars would be much better, and I obviously disagree with you that I would be much better .

[Flameaxe]

Hi. Catching up.

[cicero]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: a strong Kscope wagon is almost always a sign that the town has given up and is taking the easy lynch. It doesn't even let us find scum on the wagon because almost everyone has given little to no reasoning beyond "he's lurking".

Heh. "Easy lynch." I'll take a money bet he doesn't get lynched.

I made the argument for lynching lurkers on day one already. Less information now (when we can afford it) in return for more information later (when we need it even more). It's a long-term strategic choice. Choose it or don't.

As for information we might gain.. did anyone else besides me notice Rocco Carne hop on the Kscope wagon? How could he justify such a thing? Wagon seems to have born possible fruit to me already.

[Erg0]

Perhaps I should say "easy wagon", rather than "easy lynch".

[The Fonz]

And that is why letting day one lurkers live is bad. There is never going to be a better time to swat them, I don't think. There will always be some super scummy player that takes the focus.

Yeah, Heaven forbid we find ourselves unable to lynch lurkers later because there are actually scummy people around...

I guess I don't really get this idea of being concerned about 'content.' Votes are content. Positions on other players are content however expressed. I've seen players who can say less in eight paragraphs than could be said by 'This wagon sucks. vote: assface.' In fact, i see the fairly common 'write one paragraph on everyone in the game' post as somewhat scummy.

The bottom line here, i really feel Scope is being wagoned for a not hugely antitown playstyle, and I want no part of it. Like the Mars wagon, the wagon is scummier than the suspect.

[Thok]

The Fonz, who's the play?

[Iammars]

I was fairly familiar with my role, but the first thing I did after confirming was checking wikipedia to make sure there wasn't some pirate/ninja connection I didn't know about. Furthermore, if I was in a state of uncertainty about whether or not my role was a pirate *in a stoofer game* I sure as hell would NOT confirm with pirate flavor because I *felt like it*.

Welcome to my playstyle. It's as much a part of me to do funny things in the opening as it is for Flameaxe to post lots of one-line posts and make people angry. It's as much a part of me as it is of pj to post long lists prefaced with "Firstly." I do it no matter who the mod is.

So your post, which had a list of all the players with your comments on each player, was not a list of all the players? I'm a bit baffled how you might justify saying that.

The post was not written as a post in which I commented on all players. The post was me responding to the thread, and instead of writing my responses in chronological order, I wrote them in order of the player list.

I like guardian's new reasons more than his old reasons, and Iammars did not answer the questions I made him - to the point of quoting a joke statement of mine in his "all players" post, instead of answering my question.

Are you talking about the one that basically asks me who I find scummy? Can't you get that from my catchup post?

I'm having this impression that he used the bandwagon to gather supporters to him without having to actually play the game or take any instance, and I don't like that.

And what, BS reasons for the bandwagon didn't help? I didn't make a choice to go inactive, I got wrapped up in the Mock Election at school (I was on the McCain campaign) and didn't have much time to post.

I really want to lynch Guardian, but I will vote him only if we get more people either off of the one-of votes or off of the k-scope vote. We need to lynch someone, and with Stoofer's unusual deadline rules, we need to be careful of how we vote at the deadline.

[Erg0]

I think that if you really want to lynch Guardian you should vote for him. We've still got five days to reorganise our votes if we need to reduce the required majority, and another vote on Guardian could make a major difference to the voting landscape.

[Guardian]

[quote="Erg0"]We've still got five days to reorganise our votes if we need to reduce the required majority, and another vote on Guardian could make a major difference to the voting landscape.[/quote]Honestly, forget that. I have no interest in claiming today, never mind being lynched.

unvote: Iammars vote: KaleiÐoscøpe

If an Iammars wagon appears out of thin air, I'll join it gladly. Otherwise, a scope lynch is better than a me-lynch.

I'm of the mindset that if Scope has something to claim, he should claim it soon. If we're not lynching him, we need to find someone other than he or I in the span of 5 days.

[Claus]

Are you talking about the one that basically asks me who I find scummy? Can't you get that from my catchup post?

To be honest, no.

I really want to lynch Guardian, but I will vote him only if we get more people either off of the one-of votes or off of the k-scope vote. We need to lynch someone, and with Stoofer's unusual deadline rules, we need to be careful of how we vote at the deadline.

What do you think about Thesp?

[Guardian]

For those considering voting me as a healthy Kscope alternative, let me outline why my current voters are voting me:

Erg0 -- I abandoned the Iammars wagon due to people not buying it. This is the best reason of anyone voting me, even though it isn't true; I can see how he is seeing it.

Thok -- I am "making stuff up." I've responded in detail to everything he brought up as "me making stuff up", he hasn't replied, and his vote is still on me.

Mgm -- originally voted me because he misread my post in which I said Thok was trying to lynch a town player -- I am that town player. I obviously know that. duh.

Iammars (considering) -- OMGUS, as far as I can see.



I've decided that no matter what, I'll stick through this game, unlike Big Love Mafia, but the reasons for voting me here are just as bullshit as the reasons for voting me there were.

I maintain that there is a wagon on me largely, if not exclusively, because I am the most prolific poster and proactive player and there are more of my posts/actions to attack

.

Mafia games want to ENCOURAGE posting, not DISCOURAGE it. Thok MGM & Mars's reasons are all bullshit, and Erg0's reason is at best misguided.