Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[Korts]

Too bad Xyl already made the Jester analogy, because I would've. Really, just because one is almost definitely scum, you think they're townies trying to mess with the town? That's quite possibly one of the worst arguments I've heard. And even if he'd be sabotaging this much, we'd be better off lynching him asap anyway.

What points to SF being almost definitely scum? I just can't agree with you. It looks like he has a PR. There's no point in arguing about that, he's either faking or he isn't. There's no way to prove either. What you're saying is he's definitely scum, because he has a PR? QED? That's just shitlogic.

OR... Simply ignore SensFan for now, find other trails and the real Cop (if there's one) can investigate him during the Night. That's another possibility...

The real cop already knows SF is scum. You're trying to get your partner to live for another day, and get a cop investigation wasted while you're at it?

And now you're pointing fingers 'cause Joubert's not agreeing about SF being almost definitely scum? No way to be sure of SF's alignment, PR or not, except for scum themselves, and if you're one of them, I'd understand why you would make the case that took the least effort. Shit, man, Cop may be the obvious therefore most idiotic claim for Day 1, but if he is Cop, what should he do?

Vote: Cogito Ergo Scum

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

What points to SF being almost definitely scum? I just can't agree with you. It looks like he has a PR. There's no point in arguing about that, he's either faking or he isn't. There's no way to prove either. What you're saying is he's definitely scum, because he has a PR? QED? That's just shitlogic.

Ugh. How many times did we go over this? We cannot prove wether he has a PR or not, but we

can

decide what of the options is more likely, and it's more likely he's faking. Even though that's not proof, it's true. Also, I never said he had a PR, and I never said he was scum because he had a PR. I have no idea how the hell you can up with this, but it's totally false.

And now you're pointing fingers 'cause Joubert's not agreeing about SF being almost definitely scum? No way to be sure of SF's alignment, PR or not, except for scum themselves, and if you're one of them, I'd understand why you would make the case that took the least effort. Shit, man, Cop may be the obvious therefore most idiotic claim for Day 1, but if he is Cop, what should he do?

Again, you're completely misrepresenting me. I'm not pointing fingers because he doesn't agree SF is almost definitely scum, I'm pointing fingers because of the plan he proposed, because it has some obvious flaws:
1. If there is another (real) cop, that cop knows for sure that SF is scum -> If there is a real cop, it would be a waste for that cop to investigate SF.
2. Simply 'ignoring' someone because you're not completely sure that person is scum is simply bad. Why the hell would you want to ignore someone?
Also, from Joubert's wording, it seems he knows that SF is not a cop.

[Korts]

Again, you're completely misrepresenting me. I'm not pointing fingers because he doesn't agree SF is almost definitely scum, I'm pointing fingers because of the plan he proposed, because it has some obvious flaws:
1. If there is another (real) cop, that cop knows for sure that SF is scum -> If there is a real cop, it would be a waste for that cop to investigate SF.
2. Simply 'ignoring' someone because you're not completely sure that person is scum is simply bad. Why the hell would you want to ignore someone?
Also, from Joubert's wording, it seems he knows that SF is not a cop.

Yeah, alright, so I may have misunderstood that part. Now I thought it over again, you're right that that plan wouldn't work, cos if SF's claim is true, he himself is the cop, and if he's lying, he is probably scum or a townie sabotaging the game. So that does cast some suspicion on Joubert.

But what I meant, and I think it wasn't difficult to see what I meant, was that you were saying basically that SF is almost definitely scum, 'cause he's likely faking. I don't see why having a PR is so unreasonable in a mini normal. Of course I haven't played much at all, so you know best.

About Joubert's wording, I have to say that you're also very sure SF is guilty.

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

But what I meant, and I think it wasn't difficult to see what I meant, was that you were saying basically that SF is almost definitely scum, 'cause he's likely faking. I don't see why having a PR is so unreasonable in a mini normal. Of course I haven't played much at all, so you know best.

So, basically you're voting me because I think SF is definitely scum? Isn't that pretty much the same as voting someone because you disagree with that person, exactly the same as what you just accused me of?

Oh, and this is my first mini normal here, by the way.

And for the record, yes, I

do

think SensFan is most definitely scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

Oh, I've seen plenty of saboteurs in my time, at least 3 or 4 that ive personally witnessed and several others that I've been told of. I'll probably end up voting for SF, but Im far from sure that theyre scum.

Too bad Xyl already made the Jester analogy, because I would've. Really, just because one is almost definitely scum, you think they're townies trying to mess with the town? That's quite possibly one of the worst arguments I've heard. And even

if

he'd be sabotaging this much, we'd be better off lynching him asap anyway.

Im not making the argument that he is a saboteur. I'm saying that its a possibility, especially given the cop claim. I'm still not even against his lynch, I'm undecided. You seem to be attacking what I've said as if theyre defenses of him. Theyre not, simply my suggestions as to possibilities on his role. I'm not comfortable voting someone just for an unlikely PR.

[lovo14]

The real cop already knows SF is scum. You're trying to get your partner to live for another day, and get a cop investigation wasted while you're at it?

the only prob with this is that the REAL cop if it isnt sf hasnt came forward. true its day 1 doesnt wanna be put out there. but there would surely be a doc out there to protect him on the counter claim if need be

unvote vote Cogito Ergo Scum

you are pushing the sf pr way to hard you have nothing to go on that he is being scummy except you thinking he is faking a pr

[Xylthixlm]

I don't like the way lovo14 is trying to use the lack of counterclaim to argue that SensFan is town. It's possible that there is no cop. If there is a cop, it would be quite stupid for them to counterclaim.

As for SensFan not being scummy except for the PR... have you not been reading the arguments? His has made quite a few posts, but didn't do

any

scumhunting until he was called on it. In other words, he wasn't trying to help the town.

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

Im not making the argument that he is a saboteur. I'm saying that its a possibility, especially given the cop claim. I'm still not even against his lynch, I'm undecided. You seem to be attacking what I've said as if theyre defenses of him. Theyre not, simply my suggestions as to possibilities on his role. I'm not comfortable voting someone just for an unlikely PR.

Well.. If those arguments are why you're not voting SF, I'd like to take your doubt away. That's all. I think you should never think someone scummy might be a saboteur.

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

the only prob with this is that the REAL cop if it isnt sf hasnt came forward. true its day 1 doesnt wanna be put out there. but there would surely be a doc out there to protect him on the counter claim if need be

There are multiple possibilities:
1) There is no cop.
2) The cop is one of the lurkers.
3) The cop hasn't counterclaimed, because multiple people said a counterclaim is unwarranted at this point.

And there might be a mafia roleblocker just as likely as there is a doc. General consensus is that it's better for the cop to stay hidden for a while.

unvote vote Cogito Ergo Scum

you are pushing the sf pr way to hard you have nothing to go on that he is being scummy except you thinking he is faking a pr

I

do

have something to go on. Did you actually read what I said, or are you just echoing Korst here (

which you did several times already this game

). Granted, I think the PR is a big point against him, but there's also his lack of contribution (although that's changed a little, but only after it was repeatedly said he didn't contribute), and the slipup by the mod.

[jerubbaal]

I am confused as hell about this spurt of attacks against CES. The likelihood of SF being scum is

extremely[/e] high considering what's gone on so far. Ridiculous PR, almost certainly fabricated, transitions into a cop claim when the pressure really starts coming. A counterclaim right now only benefits scum, as they gain a huge advantage if they can lock down our cop early with a roleblocker, if one exists. We gain the virtue of being to protect him at the cost of there being a high probability that he's entirely useless. Bad trade.

CES isn't doing anything inappropriate, and at any rate, all the arguments against him hinge on SF being townie, which is incredibly unlikely. Honestly, they don't hold any water even if SF is townie, but you're all going to look really stupid tomorrow when we lynch SF and he comes up scum.

[Korts]

@jerubbaal: well lynch SF, then. But I'm not gonna vote for him. Not until there's a better reason than a shitty PR and a claim that can go either way.

[Korts]

Oh, and of course the slipup of the mod.

[Xylthixlm]

@jerubbaal: well lynch SF, then. But I'm not gonna vote for him. Not until there's a better reason than a shitty PR and a claim that can go either way.

You are still completely ignoring the argument that he is not acting protown.

Korts, I have a question for you: Who do you think is more likely to be scum than SensFan?

[Elias_the_thief]

Oh, and of course the slipup of the mod.

that was clarified and doesnt actually prove anything.

[Korts]

Korts, I have a question for you: Who do you think is more likely to be scum than SensFan?

I am betting on CESc. He's very intent on an SF lynch. Anyway, I'm drunk as of now, so more reasons later.

Oh, and of course the slipup of the mod.

that was clarified and doesnt actually prove anything.

I quite agree. That was my point. That it

doesn't

mean anything, contrary to what CESc says.

[Elias_the_thief]

ah. i guess im guilty of skimming, i had read your previous post only up to where you say "then lynch him" and thought you were urging jer. to vote him. My bad.

[Korts]

You are still completely ignoring the argument that he is not acting protown.

What does "acting protown" constitute to you? How would you contribute with a PR he supposedly has? Do elaborate.

[Elias_the_thief]

Korts, I have a question for you: Who do you think is more likely to be scum than SensFan?

thats a dumb question. its obviously impossible to give an intelligent answer because SF is basically all we've talked about thus far. But it doesnt mean that SF is a good lynch, only that we should continue discussing and look for a better lynch.

[Korts]

ah. i guess im guilty of skimming, i had read your previous post only up to where you say "then lynch him" and thought you were urging jer. to vote him. My bad.

No problemo.

[Xylthixlm]

You are still completely ignoring the argument that he is not acting protown.

What does "acting protown" constitute to you? How would you contribute with a PR he supposedly has? Do elaborate.

One of the differences between the town POV and the scum POV is that townies are searching, while scum are hiding. That means that townies tend to dig for info, look at various players, and give opinions. Scum tend to avoid digging or giving opinions, for fear that it will draw attention.

It's not a perfect tell, of course. There are people who always act apathetic, and people who are good at acting town when they're scum. Still, it's the most reliable way I know of separating scum from town on day 1.

The interesting thing about SensFan is that he

has

made quite a few posts. If he could contribute that much to defend himself, why didn't he contribute anything to try to find scum until after people started criticizing him for it?

[Elias_the_thief]

ok. if thats true i dont see why we're lynching him or even discussing it at this point. If it comes down to a deadline lynch i guess id vote him, but i think a better idea is to continue hunting. thats what im doing.

on the other hand, he hasnt made an attempt to explain why im scummy. Im pretty sure he can quote other posts and bold words so i expect at least something of that nature.

[jerubbaal]

Pretty sure I'm already voting him. I'm happy lynching him whenever. The reasons you deride as such crappy reasons are pretty strong for a day 1 lynch. I'm extremely happy.

I've cleared up my connection issues here in Thailand, so I should be able to post on a more regular basis. I'll probably have less time for reading, but I'll try to keep up. We don't actually appear to be going anywhere new at the moment.

[Korts]

the only prob with this is that the REAL cop if it isnt sf hasnt came forward. true its day 1 doesnt wanna be put out there. but there would surely be a doc out there to protect him on the counter claim if need be

unvote vote Cogito Ergo Scum you are pushing the sf pr way to hard you have nothing to go on that he is being scummy except you thinking he is faking a pr

On the other hand, I think lovo is kinda echoing what I had already said before his post. That seems a bit suspicious, although if he's scum, I don't understand why he didn't jump on the SF wagon rather than siding with him.

[Xylthixlm]

Korts, why aren't you considering the possibility that lovo and SensFan are scumbuddies?

[Korts]

Korts, why aren't you considering the possibility that lovo and SensFan are scumbuddies?

You know, that hadn't occured to me. You could be right.

unvote: CESc

for now.