Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[Justin Playfair]

Farside,

About this:

Justin, I need a bit of clarification from you. I found your analysis of kabenon reasonable and certainly needs addressing. However I find it's at odds with what you told him previously in post 162 (fyi page 7). You talk about his suspicions of Shteven and specifically talk about the logic of the hypotetical freudian slip. I do not mean to suggest that this is bad analysis. What I want to know is, why does this not appear on your subsequent post explaining a whole host of new problems with kabenon? It seems you relegated it to a throwaway line about k's attacks on shteven. I would think that that only helps your case even more that kabeon never responded to you directly. He attempted to clarify it to others (such as Fonz, Vokan, and Farside when they questioned him) but you have not followed that line of questioning your self. Are you saying that as you put it "Quick thoughts" have been surpassed?

Just a bit curious about this:

However I find it's at odds with what you told him previously in post 162 (fyi page 7).

To be at odds would generally be construed to mean “contradicts”. If this is what you mean can you point out how anything in my later post contradicts what was in the previous one? If you do I would be pleased to answer.

About this:

What I want to know is, why does this not appear on your subsequent post explaining a whole host of new problems with kabenon?

I think you answer this yourself just after:

He attempted to clarify it to others (such as Fonz, Vokan, and Farside when they questioned him)

Most especially, in this case, his exchange with Vollkan. I dislike asking the precise same questions another player is already asking, for a number of reasons. Although it seems all right to me, sometimes, to return to the same questions at a later time to see if someone’s answers have “evolved”, pursuing this line heavily at the same time it was being pursued by another seems more designed to crack someone regardless of alignment than to find scum.

This troubles me just a bit:

I would think that that only helps your case even more that kabeon never responded to you directly.

I don’t think my case wants that kind of help. Kabenon was answering questions about his accusation against Shteven. To pursue him for not addressing his answers to me in particular would be persecution, not investigation. If you would, could you explain to me what value this would have other than to try to force a lynch regardless of Kabenon’s alignment?

Finally:

Are you saying that as you put it "Quick thoughts" have been surpassed?

Well, my quick thoughts were expressed. But certainly I am more suspicious of Kabenon007 for the behavior I pointed out in my later post than I am for the poor accusation of Shteven.

[Justin Playfair]

EBWOP:

Sorry, that should be...

LaptopGun,

...at the top of that post.

[LaptopGun]

Hey Justin. I thank you for getting back to me and addressing my concerns. I hope I can answer what you asked. Moreover, I'm gonna have to put my cards on the table I don't like the polarization of this thread. It seems the

1. Contradicts seems not to be the best word choice. It is not an out and out 180; I see it as an inconsistancy in your questioning. What I was trying to get across was that it would have made more sense if you continued with the issues you brought up. You are a logical person and enjoy using it, so there seemed to be a classic oppertunity for you.

2. You seem to be better than most posters at phrasing things. I don't mean to take anything away from my fellow posters, but there I said it. You tend to be excellent at it. You commenting other's posts is pretty good, even if it's just echoing it.

3. I think some of the other posters have been persecuting him. You don't seem to be, but then agin you are letting others speak.

4.The evolution thing can reveal major differences. I wouldn't rely on it unless it seemed key evidence, but I by no means dismiss it out of hands.

5. Ok there's a 1000 pound elephant in the room and I can't avoid it anymore. I do not like letting a small cadre of other posters explain what you said or want to continue to say. There is a really large anti-kabeon sentiment right now. You may not be the spearhead, but it really gained momentum when you first questioned him. I have to decide if the mafia are trying to wagon him. However I have to wonder if they benefited from your always piecing analysis or if you deliberately set this up. Yes I am trying to add things up. Both have some evidence backing them up.

And then there is the third possibility, that I'm completely wrong. No mafia are in on it and I'm slowing up the lynching of scum. I don't know how this would play out. Here's a freebie- your reactions to my questioning look genuinely townie. I never said Kabeon007 seemed innocent to me. He's a suspect. I need to question him and I need to get to it. I talk too much, I post too much. But I want to be heard. I don't go quietly into the night.

[-TinVision-]

Fifth Vote Count of Day Two:

kabenon007 - 5 (vollkan, Justin Playfair, farside22, Oman, MelodyMan23)
MelodyMan23 - 2 (Rigel, Phate)
farside22 - 1 (Shteven)
Rigel - 1 (kabenon007)

Not voting - 6 (Jesse Gunn, LaptopGun, MadCrawdad, somestrangeflea, Spacecase, The Fonz)

With fifteen alive, it will take eight votes to lynch.

[Shteven]

For the record, I'm a bit uncomfortable with the speed of this game. A six page day 1 was inevitable after the claim, but there's no need to repeat it. We're past half of the votes for a Kabenon007 lynch on page 12.

[kabenon007]

Okay, I'm sorry I've been an ass up til now. I really don't mean to, sometimes I just get carried away, and I've been sick for the past week, so I've just kinda been blah. Now, if someone wants to attack me, I will defend myself in a much calmer manner, one that benefits the town more than just sarcasm.

[farside22]

I'm not sure what to think. The game has gone a bit slow at this point and time. I think Justin had some good points, but I'm not as sure as before especially when people vote and just agree with another person so there vote looks good.

Unvote
vote: MelodyMan23

His vote and comment was just a little to sly for my taste.

[MadCrawdad]

@kabenon

Here are a couple of things you said regarding your gut feeling about Vollkan...

Well, my first game was with vollkan here on MS. I was town, he was scum. He did exactly what he is doing now: long posts, responding to everything thrown at him with long posts. He was scum in that game and I knew it, but no one else believed me. And I can't help feeling that this is exactly how he acted that first game... and I know I said it was how he plays everytime...

but something just seems different

. But yes, it was vollkan I was considering putting my vote on. I believe my vote could do better on someone other than Shteven.

Come now vollkan, you have to admit that some words, some turns of phrase, cause you to feel a certain way about them. Your words merely caused a scummy sensation in the pit of my stomach. I was right last time.

A question I have, is how many other times have you played with Vollkan? In your first post quoted above you mentioned that you played your first game against him. In the second quote you mention that you were right about Vollkan being scum 'last time'. Are you possibly saying that you only played 1 other game with Vollkan?

[vollkan]

A question I have, is how many other times have you played with Vollkan? In your first post quoted above you mentioned that you played your first game against him. In the second quote you mention that you were right about Vollkan being scum 'last time'. Are you possibly saying that you only played 1 other game with Vollkan?

We've only played in

one

completed game together: Newbie 358. I was scum, and he was town. He suspected me throughout the game, but I managed to throw it off and the scum ended up winning.

[LaptopGun]

I was going to ask kabenon why he seemed really irritable with everyone, whether they were calling for his head or simply trying to get a staright answer out of him. Well...

kabenon: "I've been feeling sick"

I guess that explains it. So you've been sick so you've had a short fuse. All right, I'd probably believe it more if you had said it before but I'll buy it. That doesn't excuse everything, but Ill keep it in mind.

[LaptopGun]

[quote="Justin Playfair"
Well, my quick thoughts were expressed. But certainly I am more suspicious of Kabenon007 for the behavior I pointed out in my later post than I am for the poor accusation of Shteven.[/quote]

I just saw this and this was a type of answer I was looking for originally from you. Thanks, and sorry I didn't see it when I saw your post. Does not change what I said; it is something I consider in my course of action.

[Oman]

I think this "I've been sick" thing is really sad. He gets to L-2, calls himself sick (at that time, wow) and then everyone jumps off him. Jesus guys, open your eyes up.

[vollkan]

The only person who has jumped off was farside.

I'm as unconvinced by the "I was sick" explanation as you are.

[kabenon007]

I'm not trying to explain away crappy play you might have seen, I'm trying to apologize for being the pretentious dick as Oman pointed out.

[MadCrawdad]

We've only played in

one

completed game together: Newbie 358. I was scum, and he was town. He suspected me throughout the game, but I managed to throw it off and the scum ended up winning.

Thanks for the confirmation...

Well, my first game was with vollkan here on MS. I was town, he was scum. He did exactly what he is doing now: long posts, responding to everything thrown at him with long posts. He was scum in that game and I knew it, but no one else believed me. And I can't help feeling that this is exactly how he acted that first game... and I know I said it was how he plays everytime...

but something just seems different

. But yes, it was vollkan I was considering putting my vote on. I believe my vote could do better on someone other than Shteven.

So kabenon, you've played one other game with Vollkan, and he was scum then. Do you mind explaining how you would know that he plays the same every game (unless you follow him in other games), and what 'just seems different to you' this game?

The suspicions that you've cast against Shteven and Vollkan seem a little convenient, and can't really be disputed by the person being accused.... both were kind of gut feelings. With Shteven I recall it being 'not what he said, but the way he said it'....although that one started a little differently. With Vollkan, 'something just seems different.' I know you say that you've been sick, but that wouldn't explain continually going 'gut' when accusing folks.

I am strongly considering voting for you, but would like to hear your thoughts first.

[MadCrawdad]

I see that kabenon has a couple of posts elsewhere today, so I'm guessing that he's just ignoring my question...

vote: kabenon007

[kabenon007]

I wouldn't just ignore a question if it were of major concern to me, that would be a stupid scum mistake. Basically I wanted to find out if I had been right in that first game, so I looked up vollkan on wiki, and found out that he got his nickname "Interrogator" because he still made long posts grilling his opponents. And it had certainly seemed town back then as well.

[vollkan]

Nothing about my title is on my wiki article.

Also, you still haven't articulated any objective reasons (ie. non-gut reasons) as to how my play here "just seems different."

Moreover, what game are you comparing me to? Need I remind you that I was scum in that completed game.

[Phate]

@kabenon:

1) You've played with vollkan as scum. We'll call his behaviour in that game X.
2) You're playing with him in this game. We'll call his behaviour in this game Y.
3) You say that his behaviour is

different

in this game, ie. X != Y.

Why do you consider this to be a point against him rather than for him?

[Oman]

Kabenon is scum, lets all lynch him please.

[kabenon007]

I said that his play in this game and in the game in which he was scum are the same. His play in others is what seems different. And yes Oman, you have been the unerring voice of truth in this game. Please provide a case or stop spamming.

[vollkan]

I'll quote you:

Well, my first game was with vollkan here on MS. I was town, he was scum. He did exactly what he is doing now: long posts, responding to everything thrown at him with long posts. He was scum in that game and I knew it, but no one else believed me. And I can't help feeling that this is exactly how he acted that first game... and I know I said it was how he plays everytime... but something just seems different.

I reiterate my question: In that game I was scum. Thus, I demand to know what you are referring to. If you have read other games of mine, then cite them and either justify yourself or relinquish this.

You've said my play here is "different" and that it causes a "scummy sensation in the pit of my stomach" - nothing more specific than that.

[LaptopGun]

kabenon, you definately said he was acting differently in the game you played him with. Please explain how this would not mean he's town. If you are going after other games, please sat what happen in other games.

I want to believe you, but this isn't adding up.

[somestrangeflea]

I think this "I've been sick" thing is really sad. He gets to L-2, calls himself sick (at that time, wow) and then everyone jumps off him. Jesus guys, open your eyes up.

I agree.

Okay, I'm sorry I've been an ass up til now. I really don't mean to, sometimes I just get carried away, and I've been sick for the past week, so I've just kinda been blah.

You see, if you act like a pretentious dick, then excuse it as an unfortunate side-effect off being ill, that's one thing, but...

Yes, I've chosen to play as Jdodge this game. You like?

...when you blatantly claim that you've been consciously

trying

to be a pretentious dick, then trying to claim that your attitude was accidental doesn't really work.

Does it?

Vote: Kabenon

[farside22]

kabenon007: Contradiction = scum.

FOS: kabenon