PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Guardian]

lock on: Erg0

he's lying scum.

Skruffs, I tend to agree with Fonz; wouldn't the sword be smart or whatev?

Maybe you are on to something though, that would explain how Twomz and I could both be telling the truth. Interesting find, at least. Who knows how Stoofer's mind works..

[Erg0]

I love how you're trying to wrangle your way out of this with dodgy flavour speculation. You've been caught in a lie and you're going to die for it. You transparent attempt to frame the person who saw through you on day 1 isn't going to save your credibility.

Let me ask you this: of all the people that were attacking you yesterday, you said repeatedly that you thought I was the most genuine. Why, then, did you choose to track me over one of the many people that you found scummy?

[Thok]

Xtoxm wasn't even a top 3 bandwagon. How could he possibly be a good vig target?

There were several people who found him suspicious at the end of the day. The only reason he wasn't run up was because of the deadline.

Also,

vote Guardian

Die die die scum die die die.

[UltimaAvalon]

EH.. I mixed 'martial artist' with 'ninja'...
and if chuck norris is not in this game, I will be VERY disappointed...

UA: You're being amazingly unhelpful.. why are you shutting down that line of thought - you seem to think it's more likely guardian really is a power role than that he isn't, and yet you insist that you are probably 'trying' to make him llook like scum... which is it.. .are you suspicious of him or are you confident in him...

Its not so much as "shutting down the line of thought" as "backing off", because, I do the whle "[pursuing players because I want them to be scummy as opposed to them actually being scummy" a lot, and I'm usually very wrong when I do that. It's all in the sense of me trying to make myself a better Mafia player.

In other news, there are two nautical vehicles in this game. The Pirate Ship, and the Win Boat. I dont know anything about the Pirate Ship, but as far as the Win Boat is concerned, I am quite sure that Twomz is the captain. Erg0 is his first mate.

Vote: Guardian

[ooba]

I am willing to wait on guardian.

So, Ooba, how are you feeling?

I'm fine - thank you very much ...

Hello everyone, my name is Bilbo Baggins, and I have this nifty little sword called Sting, that whenever I get close to a goblin (which bothers me, because it was orcs in LotR) it glows blue. Since Guardian claimed to be my nephews good friend Sam, I decided to have a look... guess what, he wasn't Sam, he was a Goblin.

This claim is believable but sam did dress up as a orc in RotK. However the sting doesn't work that way - ie. it would not have glowed blue for a disguised sam - but i wouldn't know how its designed in the game so i'll have to disregard this for now.

OK, I've been thinking for 10 minutes, and I guess it is better for me to reveal now.

I tracked Erg0 last night. Yes, he went to cow.

I asked those 5 people to comment on each other, because I hoped some would defend Erg0 (Fonz & Thok seemed to), and I thought that would be good information for us to have.

ANyways, vote: Erg0

In case I have 2 votes for some funky reason (see the votecount I quoted) vote: Erg0 again Razz.

I have no idea what to think about Goblin finder, or me being "found as a Goblin", but I'm not one.

Erg0, unless he has some really great information about why he targeted cow, is scum. He should be today's lynch. If he isn't scum, feel free to lynch me the next day. But I'm fairly sure he is scum, I can't think of a reason for a town player to be targeting cow last night.

LOL. I was iffy on this scenario until post 1056.

Vote: Guardian

I categorically deny targeting hasdfgas in any way last night.

2 scenarios :

Guardian is town - He is telling the truth about his findings. Unless we had something like a role switcher acting in the night, if guardian is town , Erg0 should be scum here.

Guardian is scum - He is probably a ninja who hit the other scum group

All bad guys (scum) have one-shot immunity against any scum group. In other words, for a scum cross-kill to occur, a bad guy must be targeted twice by the same scum group. If a kill fails for that reason, the targeting scum group will be told that that was why their kill failed.

Either way , lynching Erg0 is the smart move today.

Vote : Erg0

[The Fonz]

Would you care to take a stand on which of those two positions is more likely, ooba?

[Erg0]

So Guardian is a goblin ninja now?

Your logic is broken. Even if you don't take into account Guardian's extreme scumminess on day 1, there is no basis for your assumption that he is trying to get me killed because he knows I'm scum. Obviously I know the truth, but even from others' perspective it's at least as likely that he's trying to take down a useful townie before he's lynched or vigged for lying about his role. It's not like it's going to damage his reputation when I come up town, he's going to die soon no matter what he does from here.

Promoting the lynch of a townish player to verify a scummy player's already highly dubious claim is either very dumb or very suspicious.

[ooba]

So Guardian is a goblin ninja now?

Your logic is broken. Even if you don't take into account Guardian's extreme scumminess on day 1, there is no basis for your assumption that he is trying to get me killed because he knows I'm scum. Obviously I know the truth, but even from others' perspective it's at least as likely that he's trying to take down a useful townie before he's lynched or vigged for lying about his role. It's not like it's going to damage his reputation when I come up town, he's going to die soon no matter what he does from here.

Promoting the lynch of a townish player to verify a scummy player's already highly dubious claim is either very dumb or very suspicious.

Hmm point taken - I didn't think of the angle where he could be scum just trying to take a townie down.

Unvote. Vote : Guardian

I hope this answers your question. I think guardian being scum is more likely.

I have a question of my own - What if he is lynched and turns up Sam?

[Guardian]

Let me ask you this: of all the people that were attacking you yesterday, you said repeatedly that you thought I was the most genuine. Why, then, did you choose to track me over one of the many people that you found scummy?

Precisely because I didn't have as strong a read on you.

Everyone else attacking me, I thought was silly/scum.

You, I'd gotten a mid-range vibe from, and no one was particularly finding you suspicious.

I think great cop/tracker/whatever strategy is to target those you are not sure about. So I targeted you. And won.

---

I applaud ooba's non-group-think mentality. His point 2 is interesting, and if that convinces you to vote Erg0, great. Point 1 is the correct thing, and either way, Erg0 is scum. Town would not lie about who they targeted, plain and simple.

Ooba also brings up the point of a role switcher arounder -- that is another plausible explanation of how Twomz possibly got me as a goblin -- maybe there are other goblins out there and I got switched with one. I'm still very puzzled as to how I am a goblin. Stoofer has not yet received my PM; I'll be interested as to if/how he responds to it.

Minus Twomz (and were I twomz, I'd have a hard time not going with my investigation results) the people voting me are pretty much the same people who wanted to railroad me yesterday. You guys are still wrong .

PPE: Ooba, you were right before you changed votes. Now you are wrong. .

[The Fonz]

We lynch Erg0, obviously. Actually, more likely MBL vigs Erg0. But whatever.

Incidentally, your little possibility list also excludes 'it's a massive bus.' But I still think Guardian-scum and Erg0-town is the most likely combination.

Money/mouth time.

Vote: Guardian

[The Fonz]

Ooba also brings up the point of a role switcher arounder -- that is another plausible explanation of how Twomz possibly got me as a goblin -- maybe there are other goblins out there and I got switched with one. I'm still very puzzled as to how I am a goblin.

Bringing up redirection is usually a fairly transparent scum ploy. It's the Flying Spaghetti Monster of defences. You don't KNOW that no-one dicked about with the roles!

If anyone protown actually did do that, I'd like 'em to step forward.

[Guardian]

Fonz, imagine yourself in my shoes. Imagine that I am really what I claim, and am dealt this scenario.

What am I supposed to think happened? Give me a more plausible explanation. Twomz decided to lie to railroad me, the player with most suspicion day 1? Hobbits = goblins? I'm wearing an orc suit? Please, enlighten me.

[The Fonz]

At the top of this page, you were talking about how flavour makes it seem like you and Twomz could both be truthful. You're now suggesting that he's lying to railroad you. Am I not entitled to think you'll say ANYTHING if it might just postpone your death?

Also, think about it. Why would Twomz be lying? In a game like this, with the likelihood of multiple scum factions, a scum outing himself to remove one town power role only benefits rival scum. Plus he would have had somehow to have guessed at the existence of a scumgroup of which there'd been no indication to that point.

[Skruffs]

I'm trying to wrap my head around Twomz's reasoning for claiming; presumably, if goblins ARE real, AND are *scum*, then there's a THIRD group. This is hurting my brain to think about. >.< MBL didn't kill n1, and he wouldn't have hit himself anyways, so it is possible that, if he was killed twice (and I think he was) that the 'goblins' are the third scum group?

I find it interesting how Ooba has Erg0 painted as scum in any of Guardian's possible situations.

[UltimaAvalon]

Might be Goblin SK, which would make Bilbo the equivalent of an FBI Agent. Also fits the flavor, as I believe the Goblins in The Hobbit used blunt weapons. Could be wrong, I haven't read it in 6-8 years.

[Skruffs]

Then Where's Frodo?

[ooba]

I'm trying to wrap my head around Twomz's reasoning for claiming; presumably, if goblins ARE real, AND are *scum*, then there's a THIRD group. This is hurting my brain to think about. >.< MBL didn't kill n1, and he wouldn't have hit himself anyways, so it is possible that, if he was killed twice (and I think he was) that the 'goblins' are the third scum group?

I find it interesting how Ooba has Erg0 painted as scum in any of Guardian's possible situations.

Yup very much possible

MrBuddyLee - Luke Skywalker (Vig) - throat slit and beaten to death Night 1
DrippingGoofball - Jack Aubrey (Pirate Finder) - forced to walk the plank Night 1

Throat slit - Ninja
Beaten to death - Goblin
Forced to walk the plank - Pirate

hasdgfas - Stan Laurel (Mason) - Cutlassed Night 2
Xtoxm (replaced Sir Tornado) - Bruce Lee (Ninja Protector) - Lightsabered Night 2

Cutlassed - Pirate
So goblins and ninjas didn't manage to kill their target yesterday. By rule 17, their kill could have failed if they targetted scum.

So Guardian is a goblin ninja now?

I was mistaken here. I was thinking in terms of goblins being pirate or ninja subsets . A third group makes more sense.

This also makes more sense . Goblins target an obviously protown player , Erg0 and the kill fails. Hence , guardians tale about having tracked Erg0 yesterday since the kill failed and he thinks Erg0 is scum. We must not rule out the other two possibilities of some protector saving Erg0 and Erg0 being immune to goblins , but if Guardian does turn out scum - we should take a real close at Erg0.

[Guardian]

Or lynch Erg0 now, since he is scum, and don't lynch me, cuz I'm not. Much better plan.

[The Fonz]

Sorry, Ooba, I noticed you described Erg0 as 'obvious protown' and say 'we should take a real close [look]' at him if Guardian comes up scum, in the same post.

[Guardian]

At the top of this page, you were talking about how flavour makes it seem like you and Twomz could both be truthful. You're now suggesting that he's lying to railroad you. Am I not entitled to think you'll say ANYTHING if it might just postpone your death?

I'm asking you to give me ANYTHING that would explain the circumstances more plausibly than a role-switcher.

Yes, I'm willing to consider many things, to try and figure out how the facts all work together.

I asked you to give me a possible explanation of how this happened to me, assuming I am town. You've given me NOTHING.

[Erg0]

Why should we be coming up with defences for you? The most likely (and correct) explanation is that you're scum. The onus is not on the rest of us to come up with reasons why you might not be.

[ooba]

Sorry, Ooba, I noticed you described Erg0 as 'obvious protown' and say 'we should take a real close [look]' at him if Guardian comes up scum, in the same post.

Well , On a re-read of Day 1 , Erg0 appeared pretty protown. And in a game with multiple factions , scum will be protown since they are actively hunting members of the opposite factions.

Or lynch Erg0 now, since he is scum, and don't lynch me, cuz I'm not. Much better plan.

I'm sorry guardian - but i've played another recent game with two scum factions (there was no cross kill in that) and i've seen this exact same tactic applied - one scum claiming tracker to out scum from another scum faction.

[Thesp]

Vote: Guardian.

I was willing to consider other possibilities until the tracking-Erg0 counter-claim.

[The Fonz]

Thesp, could you clarify what you meant by that last post?

[Thesp]

Thesp, could you clarify what you meant by that last post?

Guardian claimed Erg0 visited hasdfgas last night, Erg0 said he didn't. Couple that with the goblin claim, I think a Guardian lynch is by far the best course of action. (I can conceive of a plausible scenario where the investigation of Guardian is town-and-town, but the Erg0 claim makes a scum Guardian significantly more likely.)