Open 53: Near-Vanilla - Game over!

[neko2086]

Good response from Phate
Better response from Korlash
I assume shanba will provide some reasoning for that vote at some point. If not, I'll be extremely disappointed. I assume you're well aware that this exactly what I was talking about just a few posts ago.

Korlash, you seemed interested in what I had said earlier. Was there anything in particular you wanted to discuss or have your questions been answered?

[Korlash]

You said people were using the same excuss to vote. What exactly was it? Was it the exact same reason, or was it more of a general reason. Such as everyone voting for no reason, or everyone voting under the basis of "disscussion."

Also who exactly did it. in fact, how many players have done it more then once?

Also which post did you make the whole disscussion thing?

(And no I'm not trying to be lazy here. Seeing as how you partly brougt this to my attnention I would like to hear your thoughts about it before i did a lot of digging )

[neko2086]

You could really figure most of this out if you just read through the last couple of pages, fyi.

The excus

e

in question (the one RW talked about) is that when asked why someone votes for another person, they say that it was to get a reaction.

This is not something that I argued myself, rather clarified for you. See post 320 for more details.

For your last question, see post 218. It was prompted by something you had said, interestingly enough.

I'm still not sure what you had hoped to get by shifting discussion to this.

[Korlash]

hopefully it will at least eliminate the stupid votes if nothing else. But we'll see.

[RossWilliam]

yeah, sorry for the vapid post. What ca I say, I get lazy too. where is melodyman? I feel like we haven't seen him for a while. Maybe he feels like he's messed up and backed off for a while? I knew I did that a couple times when I was still figuring out how to play. Saving face, in a way.

Just some pressure then. He never defended himself for his mistakes, and I want that defense.

vote: melodyman23

[Hjallti]

retractable deadline: 5 days left

This day will end not later than feb 19th, CET 11.30 am.

Official Vote Count

MelodyMan23

: 4 (Korlash, TheSweatpantsNinja, Shanba, RossWilliam)

RossWilliam

: 2 (JDodge, klebian)

klebian

: 1 (Crub)

Phate

: 1 (neko2086)

Not voting

: 5 (Justin Playfair, skitzer, killa seven, MelodyMan23, Phate)

[Korlash]

I don't dislike this wagon as I really would like more input from Melody, however I think Shanba needs to put in something as well.

[neko2086]

We also need to hear from Justin, k7, and skitzer. Everybody ought to be voting by deadline to get as much info as possible.

[Shanba]

I don't dislike this wagon as I really would like more input from Melody, however I think Shanba needs to put in something as well.

Because I've contributed little of interest this game?

[Korlash]

No... because you put a third vote on someone for no stated reason. = very suspicious in my book.

[Justin Playfair]

This first, as deadline is approaching.

TheSweatpantsNinja,

TSpN’s well discussed wishy-washy post about Disciple Slayer was the kind of small tell that tends to get early first day discussion. On its own I wouldn’t have thought too much about it, but it was followed by some rather odd activities toward RossWilliams. There’s this post:

Hey, I'm not voting for rosswilliam, am I? Oh, he replaced opposedforce.
Actually, I think I'm ok with that vote.

Discuss (please?)

I’d like to say a couple of things about the above. TSpN later explains the first part of this post as being a joke of some kind. This is quite possibly the truth, but there is certainly the possibility that this was used to “make a case” without actually making a case. Sort of ‘did you see what that guy just posted? glad I’m voting him already’. The second part bothers me more. Because although the addition of (please?) at the end of this could demonstrate a genuine desire to start discussion on any topic, I’m always bothered by a player pointing to someone in town and saying they’re suspicious of them, and then instead of presenting a case themselves asking others to do so.

It’s rather like this post from TSpN, just a bit later:

Generally, I'd say jumping on a bandwagon is more of a scumtell, but in any case, it is Day 1, and our information is always going to very limited.

This was in response to Ross Williams telling TSpN it might seem scummy to start a bandwagon based on little information. But the thing is, TSpN wasn’t the first one on this wagon. It would have seemed pointing that out might have been a more appropriate response, but it also may be that, responding to Ross Williams, TSpN simply accepted what RW had posted.

Here’s where I get to feeling a bit worse about TSpN:

January 17:

I still don't like ross' play much. Let's run him up a little more.

January 18:

Well. . . we could lynch an inactive player. I'm having to suggest that in too many games, but it is an option.

January 19 (although to be fair, this was in response to a pretty bad post of Ross Williams. And I’ll quote this post of RW’s here, because it is important to something that happens later):

to all the people who are voting for me, i think it says something to my innocence that I'm still here posting and defending myself when it would be so gosh-darn easy for to slip into lurking and let the whole thing blow other.

It might have blown over before. I hope it doesn't now.

I don’t like this level of eagerness to just get a lynch. I also don’t like this series of posts, made after TSpN stated that he still supported a Ross Williams lynch:

He's been a little too buddy-buddy for my tastes. Its not much to go off of, but we spent the first few pages sucked in by DS's foolishness.

Me, mostly, when he defended me in post 131. But also shanba after he voted him. He's just too nice. Puts me on edge.

Now the above answers as to why TSpN supports a Ross Williams lynch are given on January 28. But on February 5 TSpN posts this:

Man, this day's gone on too long. I'm getting desperate to get someone lynched. The post that really sets me off wrong about rw is:

to all the people who are voting for me, i think it says something to my innocence that I'm still here posting and defending myself when it would be so gosh-darn easy for to slip into lurking and let the whole thing blow other.

So TSpN responds to this post when it was made, doesn’t include it as part of the reason for his suspicions when asked why he is suspicious of RossWilliams, then puts it forth as what bothers him the most about RossWilliams much later. This looks less like scum hunting than victim hunting to me. As a matter of fact, that’s what most of TSpN’s behavior strikes me as, up to and including his current vote on MelodyMan.

With a deadline coming up this is the best lynch I see.

Vote: TheSweatpantsNinja

[Justin Playfair]

A quick overview of others. Korlash, Skitzer, Killa Seven and RossWilliams in this one. I may not get to the second batch until tomorrow.

Korlash: Just a few questions:

In your first post of substance you ask others if they’ve seen evidence of a connection between Shanba and TheSweatpantsNinja. You then point a finger of suspicion at anyone who ends their post with “discuss”. What, precisely, is the difference between asking for others to provide evidence of a connection between two players which you yourself could not and asking people to discuss the likely guilt of someone who they are suspicious of without providing evidence themselves?

You post this:

If Ninja had perhaps done more then just that one fence sitting post I could understand the constant "Lynch that guy" attitude Shan has.

And then near the end of your post you post this:

Also FoS: Anyone who ever ended a post with "Discuss"

Well, it was TheSweatpantsNinja who ended a post with “Discuss”. Can you reconcile these two statements?

There seems a bit of closeness between you and TSpN. Korlash, do you feel especially comfortable with TSpN? If so, could you tell us why?


Skitzer,

I have to say in advance that I replaced Skitzer in the now abandoned New C9 (Open 50). He was town, but if I hadn’t been replacing him I would have certainly been making a case against him, for the same lurking, trailing and odd posting he’s done here. But even so:

Shanba: I think that a DS lynch is not a good idea, as I aforementioned, he is quite hard to read, and although the sanity of this game would be increased with him gone, the well-being may be severely detrimented because we have no hard evidence on him except for his blatant posts.

TheSweatpantsNinja was likely trying to lynch DS for easier gameplay. I can see both sides of this argument.

FomS: Shanba
FomS: TheSweatpantsNinja

Bolded makes me somewhat suspicious of TSN. Although TSN quoted a very suspicious post by RW too.

Not very big leads, but suspicions all the same.

In both cases you see two sides of the discussion and opt to throw a little dirt on both people in the exchange, but without even taking the step of casting a vote. In fact, since you made this post:

unvote

First vote count; I'm no longer random voting.

Time to get serious.

You have not voted. And you haven’t taken a serious look at anyone or anything. And I invite any interested player to view Skitzer’s posts in isolation. I understand that this very well may be play style in your case, Skitzer. But this is clearly purposeful lurking. Please give us some sort of thoughts on the game before deadline.


Killa Seven,

Drama Moose gave us nothing, and everything Killa Seven’s done seems more like a newbie trying to get his legs under him than anything else. I’m a lot more curious about the people who have seized on him as an easy target than I am of him, at least for now.


RossWilliams,

Let’s see…Curious interpretations of OMGUS and scum motivations, appeals to emotion, votes for a no-lynch and some oddly conciliatory posts. Maybe this can all be put down to you being new, but there’s a lot of it, and so much of it is self-serving I’m not going to ignore it. And I would like to ask you a question based on these two statements…

I hate when people use the excuse that they did it to get a reaction.

Just some pressure then. He never defended himself for his mistakes, and I want that defense.

vote: melodyman23

Would not your example about accidentally lynching someone to get a reaction be equally applicable to doing something to exert “Just some pressure then”? And your pressure “excuse” came armed with a vote. Not only a vote, but a vote close to a deadline, which would seem to create a very great danger of the worse case scenario you outlined above. How do you reconcile your expressed opinion with your later action?

[Crub]

Sorry I've been quiet lately, just a lot going on atm

Anyway I agree with what Justin has to say on TSN, I am going to put my vote there because I really do doubt that MM is scum especially after DS's hijinks.

unvote; vote TheSweatpantsNinja

Shanba earlier you said you doubted that DS was scum, what's made you change your mind?

[RossWilliam]

eh, I don't consider them the same thing. I feel like melodyman has turned tail and quit in lieu of the odds turning against him. I'll reconsider if he shows back up.

[Korlash]

In your first post of substance you ask others if they’ve seen evidence of a connection between Shanba and TheSweatpantsNinja. You then point a finger of suspicion at anyone who ends their post with “discuss”. What, precisely, is the difference between asking for others to provide evidence of a connection between two players which you yourself could not and asking people to discuss the likely guilt of someone who they are suspicious of without providing evidence themselves?

...What? ><

There is a diffeence between... "Discuss!" and... "Hey I noticed you said this, do you have anything else to support it." Or "Do any of you have info on this certain thing i would like answered."

"Disscuss" is lazy. It is normally preceded by someone doing something stupid. It is a very stupid way to promote disscussion.

I think that is what you asked... Your hard to understand XD

Well, it was TheSweatpantsNinja who ended a post with “Discuss”. Can you reconcile these two statements?

It was also Shan. So between the two of them they both did the same thing. SO an FoS to both for being unhelpful, and then a greater FoS For shans constant agressiveness toward TSN. I think your reaching a bit here.

There seems a bit of closeness between you and TSpN. Korlash, do you feel especially comfortable with TSpN? If so, could you tell us why?

Nothing about him has really stood out for me... I still need to read your previous post on him, don't have a lot of time right now and I wanted to at least answer your questins. And what closeness? Are we both cool? =D

[Crub]

eh, I don't consider them the same thing. I feel like melodyman has turned tail and quit in lieu of the odds turning against him. I'll reconsider if he shows back up.

Umm they're the same thing because MM replaced DS ... Also you make it sound like town never flake when they're under pressure, that's just not the case.

[RossWilliam]

No, I meant I don't consider the vote I just made the same thing as the kind of votes I just spoke out against. That would make me a hypocrite. I know MM and DS are the same person.

[Justin Playfair]

RossWilliam,

So are you now saying that your vote was not for the purpose of bringing "Just some pressure then"? If so why did you initially portray it in this way?

[RossWilliam]

I don't get how they are two different things. Just some pressure, yes, because he has turned tail, and if he's checking the thread, maybe he'll see people want to give him the chance to talk. My two posts are cohesive

[Hjallti]

deadline is extended by a week, due to the new discussion and JDodge. This day will end not later than feb 26th, CET 11.30 am.

I don't want to retracked the deadline now, because day1 should finish soon anyway.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

This was in response to Ross Williams telling TSpN it might seem scummy to start a bandwagon based on little information. But the thing is, TSpN wasn’t the first one on this wagon. It would have seemed pointing that out might have been a more appropriate response, but it also may be that, responding to Ross Williams, TSpN simply accepted what RW had posted.

I think what we have here is a definitions issue. I think of "starting a bandwagon" as being the second vote on a wagon.

So TSpN responds to this post when it was made, doesn’t include it as part of the reason for his suspicions when asked why he is suspicious of RossWilliams, then puts it forth as what bothers him the most about RossWilliams much later. This looks less like scum hunting than victim hunting to me. As a matter of fact, that’s what most of TSpN’s behavior strikes me as, up to and including his current vote on MelodyMan.

Erm, what? So I said a post was scummy, then later called it out as being scummy again, and in between had a post about that player that didn't mention it specifically? Honestly, how is that a scumtell? What's my scum angle on that play? Sounds like, if anything, you're getting me on laziness because I didn't bother quoting it specifically in the middle post. I'll agree its a lazytell, but I hardly think that's exclusive to scum.

[skitzer]

OK, I'm sorry for not posting, but I feel by looking back at games, I don't really do much on Day 1, I feel like I need a whole day cycle to look.

I can clearly see why people are voting for MelodyMan, and he is my biggest suspicion, but I don't want to put him at L-2 just yet. They may have been newb mistakes.

I don't see much of a point on RossWilliam.

I'm sorry I'm not much of a contributer.

[neko2086]

Good to hear from you, Justin. I think you have some very valid points on TSN, but I'm wondering if you think his vote on melodyman is justified or not. Do you think he is just another victim? And do you feel RW is newbie town as well?

Skitzer, it seems to me like you're saying you don't feel the need to contribute today. If melodyman is your biggest suspicion, would you care to outline why?

Shanba, I'd still like to hear some reasoning for your vote.

Where is Melodyman anyway? He ought to have something to say by now.

Mod:

can we get a prod on him?

[skitzer]

Because of his first vote. He voted for the person with the most votes between his two suspicoins

[Shanba]

I assume shanba will provide some reasoning for that vote at some point. If not, I'll be extremely disappointed. I assume you're well aware that this exactly what I was talking about just a few posts ago.

I'm acutely aware, but I'm trying to demonstrate a point, as well as a few other things...

It was also Shan. So between the two of them they both did the same thing. SO an FoS to both for being unhelpful, and then a greater FoS For shans constant agressiveness toward TSN. I think your reaching a bit here. Razz

Why is aggressive play a scum tell?

Unvote, Vote: The sweatpantsninja

I had forgotten melodyman replaced ds.