massive wrote:Moving off of the lurky lynch, he says "the more I think about it, the more likely it is he's town, but since you all are voting for him, why not?"
The logic that Matt_S seems to be missing seems pretty obvious to me:
1. I'm Fellowship.
2. If I'm Fellowship, there are probably other Fellowship roles out there.
3. If there are other Fellowship roles out there, there is a possibility that all nine are out there.
4. If there are nine Fellowship roles, they are the town.
That's not even hard to follow. Khelvaster readjusted his attacking points, but that is the logic flow of it, in a nutshell.
This is indeed my logic flow. I felt it was so blatantly obvious that I didn't need to list it. Thanks for making it a little more apparent.
massive wrote:
I think Matt_S got lucky, in that CoolBot came out as a non-Fellowship-er before he had to make a definitive stand. I think vanilla townie is the safest fake claim a scum can make. I think he is bandwagoning despite admitting that he thinks the actions of Khelvaster are more likely those of a townie. Is this the part where I type DIE SCUM DIE?
Vanilla townie is also the most common claim a non-scum can make. That neither proves nor disproves guilt. The bandwagonning is what worries me the most, and what provoked me to vote Matt.
Matt wrote:
Good reasoning except for post 79 by me:
Matt_S wrote:
Post 75(which has a typo, I said would when I meant wouldn't >.>)
Other than my post there I can't prove one way or the other. But let me ask you this: Where would we be if I came out immediately after Khelvaster's post and said I didn't have a name?
I would have asked for one person who was in the fellowship and was vanilla to claim their exact name. I wouldn't have claimed vanilla town myself, as that would have seemed a bit too manipulative. Better to have another townie verify that what I was saying was true. Anyway, given one pro-town outside the fellowship and one vanilla inside the fellowship, I would have given up the massclaim. The town would have gained one confirmed vanilla townie and one confirmed pro-town.
As I've said before, the reason I didn't do this was I wanted to see how people would react, thinking the people for the claim would be scum.
If I had said I had no name, then the scum wouldn't have to claim and potentially get caught lying.
And it obviously follows that saying "this is a bad idea, but I can't say why" is not going to influence reactions in any way...
As for the logic that you say is easy to follow, try looking from my perspective:
1. I'm a townsman with no name and no powers
That works as a valid assumption for this logical process
2. Other people without powers are townsmen without names
3. If someone has a name, they aren't vanilla, a.k.a. power roles or possibly lying scum.
Now, where might I ask did you figure this out? A Lord of the Rings mafia probably has all named characters. Merry might be town, but he is still Merry Brandybuck.
4. Everyone who asks for a name claim has a name or is scum.
This only works if everyone accepts 2 and 3. If you accept 2 and 3 as true, but not everyone does, then this falls apart. Furthermore, even if 4 is true, I still could be named and scum, or named and not scum. I don't have to be a nameless scum.
Your logic fails miserably. Only one assumption is any good, and none of your conclusion is.
It's pretty much the same as Khelvaster's logic, just using what I thought instead. Yeah, it was shown to be false, but so was Khelvaster's logic.
If you had posted the logic sooner, it would have been thrown in the trash. It's completely idiotic.
It doesn't change the fact that at the time there was no reason to think either was false.
Yes, there was. Maybe Merry and Pippin are town. Maybe Aragorn is the doc, Gandalf is the cop, and everyone else is town. Maybe Merry and Pippin are a masonpair, along with Frodo and Sam, and everyone else is town.
I still think Khelvaster's assumption that we could end the game in 3 days without danger was suspicious, since I assume that a mod would know that would be no fun for either side.
[quote="Khelvaster]I was hoping to trap the mod, if he ended up giving 9 fellowships and 3 non-fellowships.[/quote]
Mods mess up occasionally. If he did, we'd get a nice, easy win.
And lurky lynch? I don't remember suggesting a lynch on him. I said vote for him, as in force him not to lurk.
Lynch all lurkers is a great scumtell. Voting people without wanting to lynch them just doesn't happen. Have mods prod lurkers, don't vote them.
Khelvaster wrote:You are incredibly wrong, Matt. What I'm saying is that being in the fellowship won't affect whether you are a power role or not. Thus, I doubt there are 9 powerroles. You've been misinterpreting me throughout the whole game, and I'm sick of it. If I saw exactly three people say they weren't in the fellowship, we would win because the 9 townies were in the fellowship.
I've had it with your putting words into my mouth. Vote: Matt
What you say is open to interpretation. It's easy to say after the fact that you meant something else. I don't like it when people think I'm trying to put words in their mouth, but I hate it when people act like they wouldn't do the same when on the attack.[/quote]
Well, I don't do this unless I am some anti-town role. When I'm town attacking people, I avoid doing things to get them lynched unfairly. I admit I'm wrong when I misinterpret people. You don't seem to be doing either of these things much.
So think about this: What would you do if I suggested a mass name claim when you didn't even have a name? What if I got hell for suggesting it? Would you just assume I had the town's best interests in mind?
I would post and say that I didn't have a name and that the mod obviously didn't mess the setup up. I would assume you had the town's best interests in mind. If you got hell for suggesting it from three or two players, I would put them high on my scumdar. If most of the town gave you hell, I'd assume it was was a newbie mistake on your part, unless you were flying with blatant disregard towards logic.
Since we know there are townies that weren't in the fellowship, voting someone who claims to not be in the fellowship wouldn't be a guaranteed win.
Now we know. Before we knew, if there were only three people outside the fellowship, chances would be high the mod screwed up and we'd win.
Rather than give someone the benefit of the doubt, I chose to press them on it. Are you saying you wouldn't do the same? Up until now I didn't see a satisfactory explanation. Still though, there's no way for you to prove that's what you were thinking, the same way I can't prove what I was thinking.
Giving me the benefit of the doubt isn't necessary to follow logic. I just disproved your logic--it has hardly any basis in reality. You've been single-mindedly blasting me the entire game. You haven't helped the town at all.
You can see my response to your whole post. I strongly feel you are scum, and would love to see you lynched today.
Lag actually does exist in real life. For proof, look no further than Jesus: When he died, it took him three *days* to respawn.