Open 53: Near-Vanilla - Game over!

[Korlash]

I'm acutely aware, but I'm trying to demonstrate a point, as well as a few other things...

And that point is....

[JDodge]

I'm acutely aware, but I'm trying to demonstrate a point, as well as a few other things...

And that point is....

incredibly obvious?

[Korlash]

I'm acutely aware, but I'm trying to demonstrate a point, as well as a few other things...

And that point is....

incredibly obvious?

not so much!

[Phate]

Korlash completely missed the point of my post. I'm not criticising for not contributing; I'm criticising for trying to look like he's contributing when he's not.

[Korlash]

I seem to do that a lot. Like now for instance. You say you criticising because someone is not contributing. Why don't you stop criticising and contribute something yourself.

Unvote:, Vote: Phate

Hows that for a point? Get it?

[Phate]

Korlash... can you read? I JUST SAID that I'm not criticising because they're not contributing; I'm criticising because they're trying to look they're contributing when they're not.

[Korlash]

YOUR STILL WASTING TIME "CRITIcising" people! see I'm not the only one who misses points. Why "criticis" them? why not say "hey, your trying to look like your contributing but your not! FoS; you for this post and this one! Why are you actively lurking! Why is this, why is that!" instead you post something worthless and lurk yourself?

my point is not what your

criticizing

someone for, it's that you would choose to do that instead of being helpful!

And yes ^ was o make fun of people who post half in caps and half not in caps.

[Phate]

Someone wake me when Korlash learns how to read and type English and use basic critical thinking skills.

No, never mind. I should probably respond to this.

You didn't make a point with your last post; you just misinterpreted mine. Do a recent meta of me and find how often I post and when I post; you'll find it's consistent across the board.

What the fuck is your beef with the word 'criticising'? You do realise that you're doing it now? You find it unhelpful? Why? Actually, let's start from the beginning.

Do you know what the word 'criticising' means?

[Korlash]

Yes as taken straight from my most loved dictionary,
1. To examine and judge as a critic; to pass literary or artistic judgment upon; as, to criticise an author; to criticise a picture.

2. To express one's views as to the merit or demerit of; esp., to animadvert upon; to find fault with; as, to criticise conduct. --Blackwood's Mag.

My question to you is why you think Criticising

is

helpful? The only thing you have done lately (Before this argumnt of our started at least) was make a stupid post I felt was worthless. I said so, and you come back with the excuse you were Criticising someone and I was at fault for not realizing that. I mean what right do you have to citicis someone on something you yourself were doing?

Also I could care less about your meta as I am in this game, not those other ones. I coudl care less how often you post, but I care greatly about how useful the posts you do post are.

Also I like the word criticizing better as I feel weird when I post "Criticis." Nothing to do with you and I meant nothing by it. I was lashing out at the Engligh language there and my inability to stand it. Although if it makes you fell better ou can pretend I used it as some way to piss you off and you can take some of that anger your harboing out on me. That will totally help this disscussion ;P

[Phate]

Criticising: to express one's views as to the merit or demerit of, especially to find fault with.

That is how you find scum.

When someone use crap logic, you criticise it. Then you judge reactions. I am criticising someone's (at this point, I've frankly forgotten who) attempt to look like they're contributing when they actually aren't.

You responded by criticising my post, after missing my point. We are currently criticising each other. This is not unhelpful; this is Sp- er, Mafia.

[Korlash]

... it seems we are equally matched in wits... ha ha ha... I feel so sorry for you...

Seriously though, critisizing someone for something you are doing yourself is a bit hypocritical.

[Phate]

Korlash, that is exactly what I meant by "You missed my point."

Let me spell this out for you. I'll use small words.

You seem to think that I am

criticising

getting mad at other players for not

contributing

helping. You seem to think that this is

hypocritical

the pot calling the kettle black

bad.

In actuality,

Actually,

Instead,

You're wrong. I am

calling them out

pointing out that they are

pretending

trying to look like they're

contributing

helping when they're

actually

really not.

[Korlash]

I am R trying to say you R tryng to look like you are helping but really you are not. talking about meta, this reminds me of a game I played with you before that I cannot talk about where i was right.

[RossWilliam]

I get what Phate is saying, Korlash. He's using phoniness as a scumtell, i.e. trying to make it seem as though you're contribuiting when you're not. And I don't see why criticising people is such a bad thing, in a game of mafia it seems like a necessary factor. and way to bring some half-assed meta into all of it and not actually reveal anything, now everyone non-related person has the negative connontations of meta without any benefits.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

In fairness, phate started with the meta business.

[quote="shanba" I had forgotten melodyman replaced ds. [/quote]

So I have a vendetta against DS? I thought I was distancing from him earlier.

[Korlash]

Yeah I kinda lost the orriginal point I meant about phate and we got into this long pointless argument... *sigh* You think i would learn not to poke the aggresive people...

[neko2086]

Um. Wow. Apparently Phate will contribute to discussion when agitated.

I have to say, if we weren't going to criticis

e

people, then what would we be doing? What is your idea of scumhunting, Korlash? Every action in this game should be considered critically.

I do agree that it is hypocritical to criticise somebody for something you've done yourself, but I'm not sure that's the case anymore. I initially didn't see Phate as contributing much of substance, but now he appears to have something significant to say. We'll see how long that lasts.

unvote: Phate

for now.

Nice to see you back, JDodge, but do you have any thoughts you'd like to share with us. Like, helpful ones?

I don't like having to drag responses out of people only to get half-assed ones. Skitzer doesn't appear interested in helping the town in any way.

FOS:

Phate, JDodge, and Skitzer for being our least helpful players thus far. I feel strongly that at least one of them is scum.

Melodyman and K7 are working their way up there, but I'm feeling more newbiness off of them than anything else. I expect much more from them, though.

[Phate]

The point you should take from this, neko, is that Phate will respond not necessarily when agitated, but on weekends.

[neko2086]

I see. Well if that will consitently be the case, then perhaps I can work with that.

[Justin Playfair]

More of the overview:

Klebian,

Klebian have cast one vote so far, early on Ross Williams, and have let it dangle there for some time. He hasn’t made a case against anyone, and has, at this point, said that…

I am still ok with the Ross wagon though I don't see it developing into a lynch too soon and I don't think that at this point it even should be a lynch without some more discussion.

Klebian, we are approaching deadline and your vote is still on Ross Williams. Do you now think there should be a lynch? Or are you planning at some point before deadline to engage in some more discussion?

I like a good deal of post 266 and wish you were doing more of this. But I am curious how in such a post, clearly based on comprehensive reading of the thread, you missed that six out of Neko’s previous nine posts had discussed or been directed, in whole or in part, at TSpN and/or Korlash. And one of the three that didn’t was a help post about game mechanics. Just out of curiosity, who do you think should have been at the top of his list? And who would be at the top of yours, since you haven’t addressed as much attention to any one player as Neko had to both of these?



Neko286,

I like almost everything Neko has posted. He seems to be looking around pretty thoroughly and explains his actions and reasoning well. The one thing I am curious about is Neko’s vote on Phate, in relation to this statement and our rather soonish deadline:

Whether Phate's reason here is any good is debatable, but at it's a reason nonetheless. Unfortunately, it still appears that he's only contributing enough to get by. He's given us something, but it's not much. When he starts contributing something significant/meaningful/helpful/etc., I'll consider moving my vote.

And then…

Good response from Phate

Are you seriously considering pushing for a day one lynch on Phate? If not why is your vote still with him? I would be interested in reading your overall view of his play.

Oh, and in response to your two questions:

About Melody Man: My feeling at this point is that Melody Man acted like a newbie. He replaced Disciple Slayer who I’ve already participated in lynching in another game for his goofy play (ironically enough, in that game he was the doctor). This is a null to me at the moment. There may well be a time for lynching a player for whom bad play has rendered the usual methods of scum hunting inadequate, but it should not be day one.

About Ross Williams: I am actually quite suspicious of Ross Williams, but at this stage the possibility that he is just newbie is keeping him from the top of my list. I would contrast his “newbie” activities with those of Killa Seven, though. Killa Seven makes some good points, shows some good instincts, then follows with bad stuff in a way that seems very naturally like a new player getting their game legs. Ross Williams does things consistently that reek of newness but also seem almost invariably self-serving.

Running long so I will break this here and continue below.

[Justin Playfair]

Ack,

Sorry, Neko. Didn’t see that you had already unvoted Phate. Guess that’s a pretty good answer to my question, though.

Phate,

Did Korlash miss your point? Yes. But you missed the heart of his point, too. Or maybe you ignored it and purposefully lead the discussion away from it. It’s a very simple sequence, really:

Ross Williams (I remember who it was) posted to complain about the lack of activity.

You posted this curious gem:

RossWilliams, while I agree, your post declaring that is useless to the town; in fact, I think a town complaining about inactivity (without actually doing anything about it) is more likely to make more people lurk.

Post an analysis! Vote a lurker! Stay silent! But don't complain about lack of content when you're not giving any.

In this post you agree with Ross Williams about the lack of activity, criticize him for expressing the opinion you share with him, make the odd claim that it will make people even less active, then include as one of your pieces of advice that he stay silent. Which was, given what has happened since, clearly pretty bad advice, as his post prompted yours and has, in fact, engendered quite a bit of discussion.

Korlash was, I believe, pointing out that you have not contributed overmuch so far and that it was curious, therefore, that you would seize this opportunity to make a (largely contentless) post of your own. In short, that you too were attempting to be seen as contributing without actually contributing.

And to be excruciatingly clear about this, I understand that you were criticizing Ross Williams for complaining about the lack of contribution when he himself was making a post that did not help town. You spent your post complaining about him for doing so without, as far as I can see, helping town either.

And I really don’t like this:

I am criticising someone's (at this point, I've frankly forgotten who) attempt to look like they're contributing when they actually aren't.

You made that post less than three days ago. So either you’re pretending you forgot to try to minimize the discussion and hopefully make it go away before it attracts too much attention from people other than Korlash or the initial post really was just an attempt to appear to be contributing when you weren’t. Because if Ross Williams’ post really did raise honest interest on your behalf, it’s sort of hard to believe that you would have forgotten who had done that so soon, especially when it embroiled you in the subsequent discussion. The second wouldn’t have to indicate you were scum, but it does indicate that Korlash had a reasonable point when he initially responded to you.

So a simple question. In what way was your initial post to Ross Williams more helpful to town than the post Ross Williams made to which you were responding?

[Korlash]

I do agree that it is hypocritical to criticise somebody for something you've done yourself, but I'm not sure that's the case anymore. I initially didn't see Phate as contributing much of substance, but now he appears to have something significant to say. We'll see how long that lasts.

Your welcome. Perhaps the stupid things I do are actually meant to serve point!??!!? *Gasp* Korlash do good? Make... phate... talk... durrrr....

The point you should take from this, neko, is that Phate will respond not necessarily when agitated, but on weekends.

... Interesting... *scribbles note* I'll make sure to remember thaat.

[Korlash]

Ok I feel bad now... I really would like the mood to stay relatively calm.. So phate I'm sorry for getting all rialed up at you and stuff...

[neko2086]

And then…

Neko286 wrote:
Good response from Phate



Are you seriously considering pushing for a day one lynch on Phate? If not why is your vote still with him? I would be interested in reading your overall view of his play.

What you must also understand about this comment is the context behind it. RW complained about there being no activity, and Phate pointed out that complaining isn't enough, rather one should contribute. I liked that comment. But then I said

Better response from Korlash

Korlash pointed out that it was odd for Phate to be talking about being active when he himself hadn't been very active all game, which is pretty much the basis for my former vote. At that point, I felt my vote should stay on Phate, but after recent developments, I think I need to talk a closer look at the other lurkers. Sorry I wasn't so clear on all that.

Korlash, please be aware that I'm not necessarily dimissing you as town, even though I'm pretty sure you're not the lynch for today. You never cease to perplex me, so I'll be watching you closely.

[Korlash]

Korlash, please be aware that I'm not necessarily dimissing you as town, even though I'm pretty sure you're not the lynch for today. You never cease to perplex me, so I'll be watching you closely.

Sounds like me. ^^