Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[jerubbaal]

Sorry for the lack of posting, things in Thailand have been going well, but I have been quite busy.

I can't believe we're pushing away from SensFan. If everyone's so sure that he's going to get lynched tomorrow, why would you ever want to not lynch him today. If you want to test his results, you're going to have to follow them tomorrow (that's assuming he's not roleblocked, or doesn't claim that he's roleblocked, which he would be if the mafia knows he's town and has a roleblocker) to a very likely townie lynch, and then finally go back and lynch him.

The possibility of a roleblocker actually makes this a very safe claim. If he really is cop, he's going to get roleblocked every day from here on out. He doesn't need to provide any more information than a vanilla townie. If he's mafia, he's going to claim the same. I see no reliable test of his claim unless we get lucky and mafia doesn't have a roleblocker, especially no test of his claim which does not involve a lynch. This is not a long game, people. Assuming three scum and one kill a night, we only get three mislynches, and that optimistic. Passing on a very likely scum in favor of a confirmation plan which relies both on the mafia not having an rb and that will take at least two days is completely ludicrous.

There is no one else at this point I would be happy with lynching besides SF. The case on him is so much stronger than anyone else, doing otherwise would be simply silly.

[ting =)]

I just read through and found out that you never third personed your thoughts, you could only mime. All the same though, why talk by using votes when just using the whole third person thing would have been easier?

[SensFan]

SF, you can talk in third person right?

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Unvote, Vote: Joubert

[Shanba]

The possibility of a roleblocker actually makes this a very safe claim. If he really is cop, he's going to get roleblocked every day from here on out. He doesn't need to provide any more information than a vanilla townie. If he's mafia, he's going to claim the same. I see no reliable test of his claim unless we get lucky and mafia doesn't have a roleblocker, especially no test of his claim which does not involve a lynch. This is not a long game, people. Assuming three scum and one kill a night, we only get three mislynches, and that optimistic. Passing on a very likely scum in favor of a confirmation plan which relies both on the mafia not having an rb and that will take at least two days is completely ludicrous.

Simply bringing up this possibility has severely weakened the plan of not lynching him. There's no guarantee that there is a mafia roleblocker in the game. The majority of mini normals do not have mafia roleblockers. Besides, we are not confirming him solely based on his results. They are one of a number of things he could confirm himself with: investigation results, trackers/watchers, broken prs, being blocked by a town blocker but still claiming a result, being counterclaimed at a later date by a cop who has guilties on other players too.

If he claims to have been blocked tomorrow, I will be very suspicious. Not to mention, there will be no point keeping him alive anyway since he wouldn't be getting the results we kept him alive for.

It's 3 days assuming we don't lynch any scum. I'm slightly more confident in our scumhunting abiities than that. You're creating difficulties that aren't there. Do you really think it's unhealthy to have extra discussion day 1? Before people came out and stated they weren't convinced by the wagon, we would have gained almost no info from the lynch. We would have reached tomorrow and said, well, now what? Especially if he is town.

Yes, I am defending him. I don't think the case against him is watertight. I can definitely see a mod like Khelvaster (no offence, but your modding display so far has not convinced me) wording the pr in a vague way so that he can use both. Also, though Xyl is right about his contributions being underwhelming, others have also undercontributed, and they're not doing it through a straw, as it were. I'm not thrilled by him as a lynch candidate.

@Sens: Suspecting you is not scummy, defending you is not townie. Get over yourself. If you found jerub's post scummy, why vote joubert?

[SensFan]

Sorry for the lack of posting, things in Thailand have been going well, but I have been quite busy.

I can't believe we're pushing away from SensFan.

If everyone's so sure that he's going to get lynched tomorrow, why would you ever want to not lynch him today.

If you want to test his results, you're going to have to follow them tomorrow

(that's assuming he's not roleblocked, or doesn't claim that he's roleblocked, which he would be if the mafia knows he's town and has a roleblocker) to a very likely townie lynch, and then finally go back and lynch him.

The possibility of a roleblocker actually makes this a very safe claim.

If he really is cop, he's going to get roleblocked every day from here on out. He doesn't need to provide any more information than a vanilla townie. If he's mafia, he's going to claim the same. I see no reliable test of his claim unless

we get lucky and mafia doesn't have a roleblocker

, especially no test of his claim which does not involve a lynch. This is not a long game, people.

Assuming three scum and one kill a night

, we only get three mislynches,

and that optimistic.

Passing on

a very likely scum

in favor of a confirmation plan which relies both on the mafia not having an rb and

that will take at least two days

is completely ludicrous.

There is no one else at this point I would be happy with lynching besides SF. The case on him is so much stronger than anyone else, doing otherwise would be simply silly.

Simply bringing up this possibility has severely weakened the plan of not lynching him.

There's no guarantee that there is a mafia roleblocker in the game. The majority of mini normals do not have mafia roleblockers.

Besides, we are not confirming him solely based on his results. They are one of a number of things he could confirm himself with:

investigation results, trackers/watchers, broken prs, being blocked by a town blocker but still claiming a result, being counterclaimed at a later date by a cop who has guilties on other players too.

If he claims to have been blocked tomorrow, I will be very suspicious. Not to mention, there will be no point keeping him alive anyway since he wouldn't be getting the results we kept him alive for.

It's 3 days assuming we don't lynch any scum.

I'm slightly more confident in our scumhunting abiities than that. You're creating difficulties that aren't there. Do you really think it's unhealthy to have extra discussion day 1? Before people came out and stated they weren't convinced by the wagon, we would have gained almost no info from the lynch. We would have reached tomorrow and said, well, now what? Especially if he is town.

Yes, I am defending him. I don't think the case against him is watertight. I can definitely see a mod like Khelvaster (no offence, but your modding display so far has not convinced me) wording the pr in a vague way so that he can use both. Also, though Xyl is right about

his contributions being underwhelming

,

others have also undercontributed

, and they're not doing it through a straw, as it were. I'm not thrilled by him as a lynch candidate.

@Sens:

Suspecting you is not scummy, defending you is not townie.

Get over yourself. If you found jerub's post scummy, why vote joubert?

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This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is scummy.
(Formatting above can be replaced with whatever works in the relevant post.)

This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is true.

This (the above quote or, if any parts are

formatted like this

, those parts) is false.

[SensFan]

If you found jerub's post scummy, why vote joubert?

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Unvote, Vote: Jeru

[Shanba]

Um, if that's the case, why are you

now

voting him?

[SensFan]

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Unvote, Vote: Joubert

[Elias_the_thief]

Shanba, I really disagree with what you said about Khel. I think Khel is a pretty established mod, I dont think he would make such a vague restriction. Like, the ability to vote one letter? He can mime? Notice how he has switched away from miming as the game progresses? I think in the early stages he was making it up as he was going along, basically.

Anyways, I dont see the value of leaving him alive a day, and getting results. We're just going to lynch him anyways, and I'm pretty sure he'll get blocked if the mafia has one, and if theres a town RB among the players for his lynch, he'd get blocked by them probably. More likely then not hes scum, I seriously dont think Khel would give this kind of restriction to a cop.

[SensFan]

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[SensFan]

I think Khel is a pretty established mod, I dont think he would make such a vague restriction. Like, the ability to vote one letter?

* You can vote for single letters.
* You can't vote for anything longer than a single letter, unless it's a real player.

If you see an exploit in a role, please PM me too. We will work together to get a mutually compatable solution (between what was written and what was intended.)

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[Elias_the_thief]

I'm not sure how that proves anything...are you quoting communications to the mod? If thats the case, you kind of cant do that.

[Korts]

Elias, that isn't a PM from the mod, it's a quote from Xylthixlm (think I got it right) from earlier on in the game.

[Korts]

And the other's from the list of rules.

[Elias_the_thief]

No, I meant the entire quote. Khel said to PM him any problems. PM's to the mod are just as forbidden as ones from them.

[Korts]

Elias, see post 79. There it is.

[Elias_the_thief]

ok. I still dont see what it proves though. It only proves that hes either telling the truth or going out of his way to make it seem real. If hes scum, then I think going out of his way to prove it really isnt unlikely.

[SensFan]

ok. I still dont see what it proves though.

I think Khel is a pretty established mod, I dont think he would make such a vague restriction. Like, the ability to vote one letter? He can mime?

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[Elias_the_thief]

It only proves that hes either telling the truth or going out of his way to make it seem real.

[Cavebear with a toothache]

SensFan: Glad to see the quoting sentences thing worked. It's annoying to read vertical sentences. Can you do something like:

Cavebear holds up voting signs in the following order: "HI MOM I CAN SPEAK WITH SIGNS"

?

Still not happy about lovo14, but my vote there isn't doing much right now.

Unvote.

Instead, I'm getting on the Joubert wagon. I'm not really happy with how much he's done in this game; apart from a random vote and some comments about SensFan's PR, it's virtually blank posts.

Vote: Joubert.

How about you start posting a bit more content? Who do you think is scummy at this point?

Mod

: It seems you've put Joubert down as voting for SensFan, but I'm pretty sure his vote should be on Xyl (that's his initial random vote, and I don't think he's changed it since).

[lovo14]

why arent u happy with me i gave my opinions. i dont think hes (sf) pr is faked. i am a lil unsure about his claim but if there is another cop dont come forward. could be some sanity issues. apart from that im unsure. i dont wanna just jump on a wagon cause it seems well scummy atm

[Joubert]

The "real" cop would be wasting an investigation on SF. He'd practically be confirmed scum. All the cop would have to do is come forward with the results of last night, and SF would be screwed. On the other hand, I advise the real cop, if it isn't SF, to keep his investigation to himself unless he has at least a guilty. Until then, SF would have a false sense of security and would be more likely to trip up even without the counterclaim. Shanba says SF could be the cop, so let's not lynch him until we can be sure he's not.

But if he's actually Scum, then the Cop coming forward is exactly what he'd want. We don't need the Cop to get out in the light for him. The Cop must hide as long as possible to get as much info as possible before he's targeted, that's obvious. You agree with much of what I said anyways, that's why I find it strange that you voted me in the same post...

SensFan looks anything but convincing, PR included. He talks normally with one-line, one-letter bolded votes, but he can also quote as usual and he votes as usual also. It doesn't look serious...

Vote: SensFan

, to make my vote reflect my thought...

Cavebear doesn't look too serious either with his direct vote only because, according to him, I don't post enough. A FoS would have been borderline, but a full vote is exagerated. Here:

FoS: Cavebear with a toothache

[Cavebear with a toothache]

Lovo14: Well, you didn't really say anything in your post that someone else hadn't already said before.

Joubert: Well now, this is interesting. It wasn't that long ago that you wanted to keep SensFan alive, or at least was open to the possibility... What changed to make you want to lynch him? What's wrong with keeping him alive for a night or two and make use of the information he'll be bound to give us given the cop claim? In a hurry, are you?

[Joubert]

Nice work, Cavebear, now you are definitely getting in the way of the Town. I'd swear it was staged...

[Korts]

The "real" cop would be wasting an investigation on SF. He'd practically be confirmed scum. All the cop would have to do is come forward with the results of last night, and SF would be screwed. On the other hand, I advise the real cop, if it isn't SF, to keep his investigation to himself unless he has at least a guilty. Until then, SF would have a false sense of security and would be more likely to trip up even without the counterclaim. Shanba says SF could be the cop, so let's not lynch him until we can be sure he's not.

But if he's actually Scum, then the Cop coming forward is exactly what he'd want. We don't need the Cop to get out in the light for him. The Cop must hide as long as possible to get as much info as possible before he's targeted, that's obvious. You agree with much of what I said anyways, that's why I find it strange that you voted me in the same post...

SensFan looks anything but convincing, PR included. He talks normally with one-line, one-letter bolded votes, but he can also quote as usual and he votes as usual also. It doesn't look serious...

Vote: SensFan

, to make my vote reflect my thought...

Cavebear doesn't look too serious either with his direct vote only because, according to him, I don't post enough. A FoS would have been borderline, but a full vote is exagerated. Here:

FoS: Cavebear with a toothache

About the bolded part, a few pages ago you were intent on the "real" cop investigating SF and confirming his guiltiness, now you say we shouldn't let SF attract a counterclaim. Inconsistent, as it were.

My vote for you: I didn't actually agree with you. I said that the "real" cop, if it isn't SF, shouldn't investigate SF, because he'd be wasting an investigation, since if he comes forward with results anytime, SF is confirmed scum anyway. Now,

you

said that the "real" cop

should

investigate SF. I think it was a deliberate mistake, to make the possible "real" cop waste an investigation. That's my reason.