PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[cicero]

I see what you're saying now but even just a minute ago contradicts: What you just wrote:

I am not actually accusing him of being Guardian's buddy

but just before that:

I'm accusing Ooba of having too much information about what Guardian supposedly knew

I see what you're saying. And obviously, if you're scum you have to say what you have to say. But I'm having trouble reconciling this kind of thing. You look more like you're backpedaling now that you see the implications of the slip.

(people who want to see the quotes in context, they're right above in that last quote pyramid).

[Thesp]

You're being ignorant, Thesp. Just because someone is TOWN does not mean that their play is smart. You said something almost exactly along the same lines regarding Fritz's ressurection of the doc-killing Vig.

NO. (I agree that pro-town players can make bad play, but the issue here is what "scummy" is.) You were saying their actions indicate him as more likely to be scum (the definition of "scummy") whilst denying the possibility that he was scum. You did

not

say he was playing poorly, you said he was

scummy

. To suggest ignorance here is...

...

Moving on.

Why does it bother you that I am 'down' for your lynch? You've been acting scummily all game; apparently intentionally, by your own admission.

It's not that you're "down" for my lynch that bothers me, but the assertion that the unclear trail left by Mgm is sufficient for my lynch. I also am unclear where you read that I agree in any way that I've been acting scummily. (I disagree entirely.)

As for shared, genuine concern... *shakes his head* If you say someone is scum enough, people will believe it.

This is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

That makes it even more ironic when you say, "I think the spotlight is too narrow - there are a lot of sideline players that need to be involved.". This of course directly after repeating the same "Skruffs is scum" that you have been saying all game long, in a post that only talks directly about ONE LIVING PLAYER.

What are you reading? I'm having trouble making sense of this with anything I'm reading. Also, I thought the knock on me wasn't that I'd been saying "Skruffs is scum" all day long, but that I'd been on bad lynches, no?

Similarly, TSQ also tried to get DGB killed pregame, and she was, though only by one scum team. So I still think MBF and TSQ should be up there.

I share these sentiments, though RogueBen has replaced TSQ. I'd like RogueBen to post soon.

I like almost everything cicero says, with his latest posts no exception.

[cicero]

Well Thesp, I'm no great fan of your claim. So don't love me toooooo much.

I'll tell you what I dislike most about your claim: The guy is obscure. Way more obscure than any of the other claims. Kind of like the type of person you might pick if you wanted a safe claim that was not likely to be contradicted.

Maybe some of you are huge Anime/Japan geeks but for a guy like me at least that's way more obscure than any other character mentioned in this game. On the other hand, I can't think of the names of any Samurais off the top of my head and it makes sense that Stoofer might put one in.

I also find the existence of both a vig and a day vig interesting.

@Skruffs - give me time. This game isn't driving me insane like Mini 499 was. And as for the anger thing... back atcha, buddy. You were a large part of what was driving me insane in there. (Maybe we both just find each other easier to take in bigger games. )

Oh and fishing is when you hint at wanting people to claim. I didnt hint. I said it explicitly. Erg0 and Thesp should claim. Big difference.

[Thesp]

Maybe some of you are huge Anime/Japan geeks but for a guy like me at least that's way more obscure than any other character mentioned in this game. On the other hand, I can't think of the names of any Samurais off the top of my head and it makes sense that Stoofer might put one in.

I agree - I hadn't heard of him before.

[mikeburnfire]

Thesp, what I meant was that if somebody really trigger-happy had your role, they could use it immediately Day 1, miss, and then the town would have your death, your target's death, the pirate kill, the ninja kill and the goblin kill. And no new information because your hastiness skipped a day. And while YOU may not be so cocky to do something like that, there are definitely people who would.

Kison makes a good point, too. I can't see how your role can be helpful, except to yourself if you disagree with the town.

(I personally would have chosen Samurai Jack as a fake claim. Much more believable.)

[Claus]

I don't believe Thesp's claim. I don't actually believe he even has the power he claims - it is the kind of claim that is too easy to say "why use it now, we can save it for later, huh?".

And Scruffs, I'm not Guardian's partner. But I can see where you're coming from. I fell squarely in the "Oh my he is stressed let's give him some breather room" trap. Better look elsewhere.

[Gorrad]

First off- Skruffs, I NEVER directed scum to kill you. I told scum to kill Erg0, and I said you should die one way or another relatively soon. I stick by that.

Second- Thesp, are you a one-shot Dayvig? If not, our answer is simple- Every time we have someone at L-1, Thesp attacks them. If we choose scum, hip hip hooray! If we choose town, then we don't lose a lynch and Thesp dies. I agree that his role doesn't seem the most pro-town, and this way we don't lose anything except possibly a very scummy townie, and more likely a very scummy scum.

[Thesp]

Second- Thesp, are you a one-shot Dayvig? If not, our answer is simple- Every time we have someone at L-1, Thesp attacks them. If we choose scum, hip hip hooray! If we choose town, then we don't lose a lynch and Thesp dies. I agree that his role doesn't seem the most pro-town, and this way we don't lose anything except possibly a very scummy townie, and more likely a very scummy scum.

I don't know the wisdom of revealing this. Let me ponder it.

[Erg0]

I see what you're saying now but even just a minute ago contradicts: What you just wrote:

I am not actually accusing him of being Guardian's buddy

but just before that:

I'm accusing Ooba of having too much information about what Guardian supposedly knew

I see what you're saying. And obviously, if you're scum you have to say what you have to say. But I'm having trouble reconciling this kind of thing. You look more like you're backpedaling now that you see the implications of the slip.

(people who want to see the quotes in context, they're right above in that last quote pyramid).

Oh boy, this is going to get semantic...

The second quote above is in response to the post in which you say that "[I'm] accusing Ooba of having too much information about the fact that [I'm] scum". In it, I am responding to the second part of your sentence by clarifying exactly what I am "accusing" Ooba of (in your terms) in my original post on the subject. In doing so, I've simply echoed the first part of your assertion and modified the second part to show specifically what I'm disagreeing with in your initial statement. The sentence immediately following this one is as follows:

In context, I'm saying that if what Ooba claims is true then the only way he could be as sure as he appears is if he is also a goblin.

I feel that this sufficiently clarifies that I am not saying that Ooba is actually scum, only that he is making a faulty assumption. As such, my position has not changed between the two posts you have quoted from above, despite the appearance that the sentences you pulled may create. There is no contradiction, nor any backpedaling, in those two posts.

Frankly, the "if you're scum you have to say what you have to say" bit that you've come up with above makes no sense. What's the difference between what scum would say and what town would say in my situation? Both will be motivated by self-preservation, and both will attempt to persuade others to this end. I think that you're trying to fit the evidence to your preconceived conclusion, and at this point you're just throwing as much crap as possible at me in the hope that something will stick.

[Twomz]

IMO, Thesp targets Ergo today... two birds with one stone or whatnot.

[Kison]

I don't believe Thesp's claim. I don't actually believe he even has the power he claims - it is the kind of claim that is too easy to say "why use it now, we can save it for later, huh?".

Thesp's a smart cookie and I don't think he'd pull this one out of thin air without the ability to back it up. However, you're right in that it is a possibility. One of four that I can see, in fact :

1) He's completely lying about having a role. If he ever refuses to use it on demand, we simply lynch him.
2) He's scum with this ability, but it does not work as he claims(no suicide) . We lynch him once we see this.
3) He's scum & telling the truth. If he hits town, we get a 1:1 tradeoff.
4) He is town and telling the truth. If he hits town, we hit the worst case scenario.

Looking at this as I am, struggling to accept #4, you can see why testing this becomes very tempting.

I know Day Vigilantes have been used in other games before ; that wasn't what I was talking about. I'm more or less wondering if anyone has ever seen a day vigilante who suicides, kills,

and

usurps a lynch upon choosing incorrectly. The closest thing I have ever seen to this was in a game way far away from our beloved home of Mafiascum, and even then, mis-targeting only killed the one-shot vigilante and usurped the vote, leaving the innocent victim unharmed.

Thesp attacks them. If we choose scum, hip hip hooray! If we choose town,

then we don't lose a lynch and Thesp dies

.

Say what? Thesp's ability ends the day. We

would

lose a lynch.

I'm leaning towards Thesp hitting Erg0. What is everyone's thought on this?

[Gorrad]

Kison, reread that quote in context. Then say 'Oh, wait, you were talking about him targetting someone at L-1. He would lynch for us.'

And right now, I'd be ok with him targetting Skruffs or Erg0, but I want to wait for the town to decide between the two.

Also,

Unvote, Vote: Skruffs

. I'm still of the opinion that the goblins should kill Erg0 if Guardian was telling the truth, and Skruffs hasn't done anything to reassure me of a pro-town nature.

Thirdly, Erg0 hasn't claimed, despite constant pressure to do so.

[Erg0]

Constant pressure? Where? I've only seen one person even mention anything about me claiming. I've certainly been under pressure, but not pressure to claim.

[Rogueben]

I think Erg0 is justifying what appear, to me, to be backpedaling as well.

Thesp's ability can be tested, as others have said, by vigging at L-1.

Reading back over Guardian's post, and also the rule post, I think it is most likely that Erg0 is scum, and that the Goblins were told this.

So

Unvote, Vote:Ergo

[Rogueben]

Oh and those that are saying Rogueben post more. I'm posting as regularly as possible, I only have a couple of windows to post in and point out what I see then.

If you have any questions I am more than happy to answer.

[Erg0]

Kison, I may be reading your post incorrectly but looking at your four options it appears that you think that Thesp will die when he uses the kill, no matter who he targets. He only dies if the target is town, which invalidates scenario 3.

[Erg0]

Wait, never mind. I misread Kison's post.

[Gorrad]

Constant pressure? Where? I've only seen one person even mention anything about me claiming. I've certainly been under pressure, but not pressure to claim.

Hmm, well, I may have only seen one person, not sure, but I know I've seen you asked mutliple times. Even if it's only one person (now two, I want your claim), I AM sure the pressure has been constant.

[Erg0]

I seriously haven't seen it, and I've definitely been looking. All I've seen is a bunch of people voting me based on poor assumptions.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Thesp: 3 (MrBuddyLee, ooba, Kison)
Erg0: 3 (Claus, cicero, Rogueben)
Kison: 1 (Erg0)
Skruffs:1 (Gorrad)

Not voting: 10 (Skruffs, JordanA24, Iammars, Samruc, mikeburnfire, Flameaxe, UltimaAvalon, Thesp, Twomz, The Fonz)

10 to lynch!

Deadline will be ~10th March

As things stand, no-onewould be lynched at deadline.

[MrBuddyLee]

I think Thesp's role is an ideal scum role in this particular game with 3 killing groups:

* It disincents him from "vigging" except in emergencies, because he'll lose his cover. A town vig would be less concerned about the tradeoff.

* It incents him heavily to kill rival scum and punishes him heavily for killing town, so it is not a role biased against town.

* It makes up for the difficulty imposed by scumgroups having to tag TWICE at night to kill.

* It provides him with a decent, but not overpowering, safeclaim.

I don't like that his flavor is "nearly ninja". Particularly considering he knows his kills (day or night) will all be carried out with "samurai/ninja flavor".

I don't like the fact that he's been so zeroed in on Skruffs as a dayvig... it seems there's more meat to that accusation, as if his scumpartner has a tracking role...

His reaction to my fake dayvig was understated, then overstated, as if he almost forgot what his safeclaim was, then overreacted to get his "reaction" on the books asap.

I've thought Thesp was a ninja for some time now, and now that his claimed flavor fits, I'm thinking the hunch was right. He's one of the few people I could see targeting me N1, his play re: kscope fits scum whose NK failed N2, he was TOO unsubtle about counterclaiming my dayvig.

As Thesp would say, I don't think Thesp should be allowed anywhere near endgame. I think he should be run up every day and forced to vig before the lynch occurs. He has plenty of people he finds scummy, and likely for VERY good reasons. I say we put him to the test now, and every day.

Thesp, Twomz, cicero, Claus, VERY quick to get on the kscope wagon. Remember, at least two ninjas knew scope was scum to start D2. Thesp and Twomz try to act all offhand casual about their votes but there is clearly intent there. Not likely that Fonz or Iammars are ninjas, for similar reasons--they defend and ignore scope, when that's not likely what a ninja would do. TSQ and UltimaAvalon are also suspect in the way they hop on kscope.

Lynch Thesp NOW, people. Make him dayvig.

[mikeburnfire]

I'm not paying real close attention right now (busy RL), but there seems to be a lynch rising over erg0. Mind telling me why? If it's because Guardian singled him out last night, keep in mind that he also directed us to kill Thok, a now confirmed town.

[MrBuddyLee]

Claus and cicero avoiding the Thesp lynch = protective behavior by a fellow ninja.

[Claus]

Yeah, sure. I'm totally avoiding the Thesp Lynch.

Because pushing for a Thesp Lynch D1, and saying straight away that I don't believe his roleclaim is completely avoiding a Thesp lynch.

Fact is: I would lynch Thesp, but right now I like the Erg0 wagon more. I might change the vote later, if it looks like it is indeed Thesp, and not Erg0 who is getting lynched today - but right now, both wagons seem to have the same size and momentum.

[MrBuddyLee]

Thesp was pushing too hard, and too seriously, a much too silly bandwagon. And then later he begins to cheer both bandwagons. Thus the vote.

Thesp: I don't want to lynch you nomore. We should be getting rid of scummy and lurky players early in the game, not scummy and wordy players.

So, I'm putting my ass on the line by booing Thesp wagon

That said, If I weren't voting for Kscope/a random lurker, I would vote for one of these people (out of my head):

- Thesp: For jumping around bandwagons, and pushing the Yarr-Lynch

Vote: Thesp

Because this wagon needs more care and loving.

His early vote on Thesp does seem like a cop sign to me. And he had reasons to investigate Thesp N1. So I think the MGM theory does weight against Thesp.

Still, folks, Erg0 is the play today.

I don't believe Thesp's claim. I don't actually believe he even has the power he claims - it is the kind of claim that is too easy to say "why use it now, we can save it for later, huh?".

Wishy-washy. One sentence on Erg0 all game, a multitude of negative opinions re: Thesp, and yet your vote is for erg0. I'd like a comparative analysis from you, please.

Thesp, Erg0, what do you guys make of Claus's (and cicero's) behavior re: you?