Mini 549 (Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous) - Game Over

[Fat_Tony]

Hi all. Only had chance to read the first page of action up to now - I will catch up fully and post something (hopefully) constructive later today.

@ Johoohno: Sure thing, Batman.

(I'll also take this opportunity to point out that I am a terrible newb, so I apologise if I'm a little slow on certain issues.)

[Ectomancer]

I'm also suspicious of Earwig. He seems to have contributed very little actual content to the game, but has often seemed to follow the flow and has shifted his vote numerous times.

FOS: Earwig

I pre-emptively fos'd Earwig because he generally lurks and puts no convinction behind what he says. That was to alert everyone else that he plays like that all the time. That being said, his posts aren't what I normally see (though his activity is still low). I haven't played with him in awhile though, so I dont know if this is ScumWig, or his latest attempt at appearing "active".

[Fat_Tony]

Right, I might as well make the first post a goodie - I'm just gonna pick up all the interesting points I find as I go through.

1-16: (Joke?) suspicion on Earwig for OMGUSfest.
25: first non-random vote against Tamuz for weird 2-vote thing.
27: Tamuz gets all Mr. Angry.
35-45: Game seems to slip back into random phase.
48: Nyktorion suggests Blackberry - RC link.
49: earwig starts to wagon blackberry - no major reason except quoting Nyk, also points out a "safe" votecount... also tries to joke about trying to appear to be someone else's scumbuddy
56: Blackberry OMGUS's earwig on the back of reasonable suspicion
60: Tar warns earwig over post 49 scumbuddy remark
64: earwig unvotes after everyone gets all feisty-like.
65: Nyk unvotes Berry. Also points out that our mod isn't numerate
67: Jester raises the notion of multiple mafia groups.
72: RC joins Nyk in voting for Ryan (RIP)
83: Bastardmod doesn't clarify "Mostly Mountainous". Bastard mod.
97, 98: RC again defending Berry. Nyk again picking up on it.
106-109: Handbags between Berry and TNE.
135: After a lot of scuffling between SlySly and Berry, Nyk switches attention to RC.
143: RC AGAIN leaps to Berry's defence.
148: Jester suggests Berry's erratic colour use to be scumtell.
149: Berry defends colour use.
151: Nyk votes RC seeking explanations which have not been forthcoming.
169: Johoohno identifies 5 most likely lynch targets, seeks discussion.
170: Blackberry doesn't like 169 (possibly since he is on it)
171: Ecto doesn't like 169, without same reason.
172-4: All sorts of suspicion towards 169.
177: RC defends Berry (yawn), votes johoohno, maybe trying to start wagon.
180: Jester is back, votes RC.
186: Mod admits lack of numeracy
191: ROTN picks up on Johoohno's mention of SK - muddying waters. votes Johoohno
198: ROTN cuts through more Johoohno-related bullshit.
BlusterBlusterBluster including Blackberry vs Ryan - "this time it's totally freaking irrelevant"
229: Anyone else getting tired of RC agreeing with berry?
231: And now Berry goes ballistic for someone daring to challenge their continual defence of one another.
242: TNE outright claims Berry and RC for scumpair.
243: Ecto gets the heebiejeebies about TNE's post. As do I.
244: RC with a typically informational OMGUS, but against TNE, so it's not all bad.


At this point I forgot to keep making notes.. I'm tired this morning. Wait, it's lunchtime, now. Just reading page 14...

[Fat_Tony]

Right... ok...

I had forgotten that my predecessor was Blackberry. All the way through that entire thread I was really unhappy with the Berry/RC connection, I think it seemed scummy as hell.

All I can basically assume is that since Berry and RC appear to have prior familiarity, they were defending each other. While I don't see quite how much sense it makes, I don't know what other conclusions to draw. Perhaps RC was even defending Berry so hard to make Berry look scummy, whilst being scum himself. From reading other games it seems that in similar situations it is the defended that gets lynched, and not the defendee. I also hate how people's attention has been completely diverted from RC by the whole TNE thing. Don't get me wrong, TNE seems scummy as all hell, too, and I don't know whose play I hate more.

johoohno makes me uncomfortable. Again he has pushed (in a roundabout, scummy way) to get on with a lynch, even though we have a fortnight to deadline. I don't know for certain that he is scum, but his actions don't shout pro-town to me.

Jester is an interesting one. Early, I was very, VERY sure he was pro-town, but something (and I wish I could tell you what, but I'm not sure myself), is telling me that everything is not as it seems. I still believe his actions are pro-town, and I certainly wouldn't advocate him as a D1 Lynch.

Earwig bugs me (geddit?!) but it's difficult for me to countenance a lynch against him when we have so little content.

Tamuz bugged me initially, but I think his actions are more pro- than anti-town.

How to boil this down?

IGMEOY: Johoohno

. I don't like your constant pushing for suspect lists, and I don't feel your current methods are pro-town. Can't quite nail you down as scum, equally am not sure you're town. And let's not start speculating about power roles. Muddy waters = anti-town.

Now, RC and TNE. At the moment, I would be happy with my vote being on either of these two. I'm not looking for a quick lynch, and I don't really think popping RC with a fourth vote does anything except perpetuate a wagon towards such a lynch - maybe later on, if nothing gets clearer, that would be a good route to go down. In the meantime;

FoS: Rosso Carne

. I think you're scum. I think you were setting up Blackberry for D1 lynch, recognising that his playstyle was just horrible and made him look divided from town.

Vote: thenextepisode

. Not one post of yours has given me confidence in you, and 242 is just a horror show. Attempting to wagon RC, while probably not a terrible lynch, and then claiming not to want a quicklynch, possibly lying about knowledge of the votecount, flat out claiming a scumpair between Berry and RC... Yuk. (And yes, I'm aware that Berry = me at this point, all I can do is tell you how I feel.) I hate the way you're playing the game, and regardless of the motive/volition behind the lies in 242, if you're town, it's working massively anti-town, and if you're scum, it's just flat out dumb. Either way, I don't think lynching you D1 would be a great loss.

Rosso Carne, my vote can still swing your way if you don't start providing us with something constructive. I don't care how pally you were with Berry, I hate the way you're playing this game and I hated the way Berry was playing this game.

@Johoohno; I hope my views on Berry's play are clear by this point. If you want any more specific analysis by all means request it and I'll look into it when I get a moment.

[Fat_Tony]

EBWOP:

Rosso Carne, my vote can still swing your way if you don't start providing us with something constructive. I don't care how pally you were

acting

with Berry, I hate the way you're playing this game and I hated the way Berry was playing this game.

[Nyktorion]

Since so many are claiming their top scum-candidates, and Johoo's logic about that information being less useful to scum than a "top 3 townie list" does sound reasonable, I'll join this, too.

My top suspects at the moment are RC, Johoo, and TNE, in that order. For RC, the reasons I stated in #254 still hold. Johoo has not been providing a lot of content up to now, and wrote the infamous post #169. Furthermore, Day 1 in a "mostly mountainous" game does not really seem like a good opportunity to get a lot of information out of speculating about the existence of an SK or a Jester. Last, we have TNE, who is a newbie, but still not looking too good after the events around posts #242 and #247.

A question to Tony:

If you did not know about your (and BB's) alignment, whom out of RC and BB would you believe to be scummier, and what would make that person stand out from the other one?

[RangeroftheNorth]

I find it highly interesting that you ask me of my suspects, whereas you very well know that I've given them openly and that is mainly the reason for you calling me scummy as I see it.

I know no such thing. You have not made a post since post 169 where you have included anything about your suspicions on anyone. (Except for your FOS of me in the last post) Even in post 169, you simply relist the people from the vote count and restate (in brief terms) why they have been voted for. That isn't finding people suspicious, that's just summarizing the game. Since then, you have spent all your effort speculating about the game setup, something which is both futile and irrelevant. It may be useful to speculate about the game setup after we've seen more information. A couple of deaths/claims, and a night or two can help to give us an idea of what the game is setup like. Until then, everything you're saying is pure speculation.

As for your previous suspicions, the only thing they were based on was the fact that the players had not thoroughly read the rules. I've refuted that argument before. I'm not going to do it again here. As far as I can tell, those were your only significant arguments against those players, and that was over two hundred posts ago. I would like to see you thoughts since then. Who do you find suspicious now?

As for your point that I shouldn't post who I think seems pro-town, I completely disagree. My post clearly outlined my thoughts on everyone. I am a fan of completely disclosing my thoughts. The scum are playing the same game we are. They are well aware of who seems the most pro-town so far. I think that having my thought down in the thread is just as helpful to the town as it is to the scum. If you disagree, that's fine, but that's merely an issue of differing play styles, and is not reflective of my alignment in the slightest.

[Fat_Tony]

A question to Tony:

If you did not know about your (and BB's) alignment, whom out of RC and BB would you believe to be scummier, and what would make that person stand out from the other one?

Oof. That's a good question. To be quite honest, I find RC's play to be scummier than BB, although obviously I know BB's alignment now and that is colouring my view somewhat. I don't know BB's playstyle from experience but he did profess to 'wanting to be a rebel' or somesuch (I forget the post number and am running tight for time) and had been starting a lot of arguments with his aggressive play. I don't find that as scummy as RC CONTINUALLY leaping to BB's defence every time one of these arguments started. I think RC was trying to set up a scumbuddy link between the two of them, hoping that BB would take the bullet - Like I say, from games I've read, it's usually the defended that gets the rope, not the defender.

I understand you have to take my word with a pinch of salt because BB looked anything but squeaky clean himself, and resultantly I could be maf. I can't get past RC's play as it's either APPALLING town play or clumsy scum play. The same is, however, true of TNE. I'm struggling to decide who I would prefer to see gone at the end of D1 given their play. My vote stays on TNE for now, mostly for votecount reasons. However, we really do need answers from RC, badly. If they don't come within a timeframe that is satisfactory to the majority here, I would not hate an RC lynch. I just don't think we can be certain yet.

[Fat_Tony]

Actually, I think I may have understated BB's play as aggression. It wasn't just aggression, it was scattergunning - He attacked (at various points and for various reasons - or not) Ecto, Ryan, Johoohno, TNE, Earwig and SlySly, and those were just the posts I pulled out at random whilst doing my (fairly poor) analysis. I think that Johoohno, TNE and earwig could all be argued to be scummy at this point, to varying extents (see 353 for my feelings regarding that), so it's probably just a bit of overaggression on his part, but I can see that swinging at 6 people on day one (again to varying extents) is a bit of a worry.

(parentheses are fun)

Anyway, I'm now late, never mind tight for time, so I will check in again tomorrow and see where we're at re: RC and TNE.

[SlySly]

I understand you have to take my word with a pinch of salt because BB looked anything but squeaky clean himself, and resultantly I could be maf.

Your predecessor was very scummy. I think your predecessor was scum. I noticed throughout all of your post, you never even once tried to deny the scumminess of your predecessor and your role, but, here you have reconfirmed the possibility of the scuminess of your role. Nice playing by you, but doesn't change the facts.

I can't get past RC's play as it's either APPALLING town play or clumsy scum play. The same is, however, true of TNE.

RC and BB have BY FAR out-scummed TNE in this game IMO.

I'm struggling to decide who I would prefer to see gone at the end of D1 given their play. My vote stays on TNE for now, mostly for votecount reasons. However, we really do need answers from RC, badly.

Votecount reasons?? Come on!!

Nice way of trying to distance from RC. If I were RC's scum partner, I would try to point that finger at TNE's newbie-ness too.

You are a much better player than your predecessor and your partner so I will save my vote to lynch you until tomorrow after we have gotten rid of RC.

[Battousai]

@Johoohno:

I have no real reasons behind some of them, its just after reading their posts I just get a feeling. Not enough to warrant a FOS or a vote.

I thought I answered the question in my original post.
Also, RotN only posted two people he felt as most likely town. The scum should know who everyone else already is and how pro-town certain players seem, so one person's view on two people, IMO, does not warrant a FOS in this type of game (where FOS are kept and stored to break ties).

[Tarhalindur]

Thirty-Third Vote Count (aka the "COOL, ACTIVITY!" vote count)

Rosso Carne (3) - thenextepisode, nyktorion, SlySly
Tamuz (1) - Johoohno
Battousai (rep. ryan) (1) - Jester
thenextepisode (2) - Rosso Carne, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
Johoohno (3) - RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), Tamuz, Battousai

Not Voting (3) - Ectomancer, Earwig, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)

7 votes to lynch.

FoS Count:

Rosso Carne (1) - Fat_Tony
Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry) (2) - thenextepisode, Jester
Ectomancer (2) - Earwig, thenextepisode
Earwig (2) - Ectomancer, RangeroftheNorth
ryan (1) - Jester
RangeroftheNorth (1) - Johoohno
Johoohno (1) - Nyktorion

Indigo

indicates a player in danger of replacement.

Final Day 1 Deadline:

~12:00 AM, March 5, 2008 (GMT -6)

[Fat_Tony]

I think you missed my votes, Tar - I'll re-iterate:

Vote: thenextepisode - FoS: Rosso Carne

Actually, I accidentally used Battousai's name instead of yours when typing the vote count. Fixed. -Tar

[Fat_Tony]

I understand you have to take my word with a pinch of salt because BB looked anything but squeaky clean himself, and resultantly I could be maf.

Your predecessor was very scummy. I think your predecessor was scum. I noticed throughout all of your post, you never even once tried to deny the scumminess of your predecessor and your role, but, here you have reconfirmed the possibility of the scuminess of your role. Nice playing by you, but doesn't change the facts.

Indeed it doesn't. What's the point of me trying to say BB didn't seem scummy? He did, everyone (apart from Rosso Carne, apparently), can see it. That is the fact of all this - unfortunately you are taking it to mean that by seeming scummy, BB was scum, rather than just playing in a ridiculously clumsy way. His play was definitely anti-town, but I doubt that was by design.

I can't get past RC's play as it's either APPALLING town play or clumsy scum play. The same is, however, true of TNE.

RC and BB have BY FAR out-scummed TNE in this game IMO.

Fair enough. I don't 100% agree with you but I see where you're coming from. I didn't want to vote RC straight off the bat - don't you agree that it would have looked more like a distancing play? There's not much I can do about BB's horrible play, but I have no problem switching my vote to RC if the town are in agreement on him. I believe RC and TNE are both scum at this point.

I'm struggling to decide who I would prefer to see gone at the end of D1 given their play. My vote stays on TNE for now, mostly for votecount reasons. However, we really do need answers from RC, badly.

Votecount reasons?? Come on!!

Nice way of trying to distance from RC. If I were RC's scum partner, I would try to point that finger at TNE's newbie-ness too.

You are a much better player than your predecessor and your partner so I will save my vote to lynch you until tomorrow after we have gotten rid of RC.

I'm not pointing the finger at anyone's "newbiness". It's only my second game, so I hardly have a right to do any such thing. TNE's play has unnerved me throughout, and I seriously believe he is scum in this game. I also believe that RC is scum, and as I have said a number of times, I don't know who I would rather get rid of. I don't want us to quicklynch anyone without the town being in clear agreement about who should go (yes I know it's L-4 but with his current lurkiness a couple of pressure votes is going to make it a bit dangerous

if

- and I know it's an unlikely scenario right now - RC is town.)

At the risk of seeming OMGUS-y, are you trying to set up the D2 lynch on me already? Don't you think that's a little premature? Taking someone else's horrible play as reason for me being scum is bad, and your insistence upon describing me and RC as being partners as if there is conclusive proof is 1) inaccurate and 2) a tiny bit unnerving. Not enough to make me think you're scum - I'm hoping you're just an overzealous townie jumping the gun.

[Rosso Carne]

={

i miss berry.

[Fat_Tony]

Nice and informative there RC. Thanks for that.

Unvote: thenextepisode, vote: Rosso Carne.

Un-FoS: Rosso Carne, FoS: thenextepisode.

Mostly because I still think you two are scummy as hell, but RC is being most unhelpful. I've scanned a couple of other games he's in and it may well just be his posting style, but seriously, you come off far too scummy and anti-town in your actions RC, and I just wouldn't have any qualms about you getting lynched at this point.

[Rosso Carne]

dont metagame. its bad for your health.

[Nyktorion]

Personally, I don't really think that BB's aggression/scattergunning is really scummy, so for me, RC is a worthier voting target than BB. This is also covered by your answer, Tony, so this seems fine to me.

However, what one thing that does tick me off a bit is that you fear that BB's connection to RC might be the premier reason for voting you. I understand that your previous experiences might influence you here. However, I think that RC had much more pressure in this game than BB up to now, so why did you emphasize that fear so much?

[SlySly]

At the risk of seeming OMGUS-y, are you trying to set up the D2 lynch on me already? Don't you think that's a little premature?

IMO, if you aren't thinking ahead in this game, you are falling behind.

I'm hoping you're just an overzealous townie jumping the gun.

I have gotten myself in trouble on this site by overzealously posting too many of my thoughts.

[Fat_Tony]

Personally, I don't really think that BB's aggression/scattergunning is really scummy, so for me, RC is a worthier voting target than BB. This is also covered by your answer, Tony, so this seems fine to me.

However, what one thing that does tick me off a bit is that you fear that BB's connection to RC might be the premier reason for voting you. I understand that your previous experiences might influence you here. However, I think that RC had much more pressure in this game than BB up to now, so why did you emphasize that fear so much?

Mainly because I feel that while RC was definitely scummier than Berry was, while I was doing my initial analysis of the thread I was feeling quite strongly that the 3 scum players were RC, TNE, BB. Once I realised who I was replacing, I also realised that a minimum of one of these three is innocent, and I feel my position as far as my own innocence is weakened greatly by the awful way Blackberry played the first 10 pages or so.

I am also concerned because of SlySly's notion that a D2 lynch on me is the way to go. The way I see it right now, we're almost railroading towards an RC lynch, which wouldn't upset me at all. The problem I face is, after the way RC was palling up to BB all the way through, if RC turns up scum, it's going to be mighty hard to prevent people making 2+2=5 and lynching me on D2. I don't see myself as a likely target for an NK if we go through because clearly there are suspicions against me and any sensible mafmaf is going to want to keep alive the town players that appear scummy in the eyes of the other townies. It feels as though the only way my D2 lynch isn't inevitable is either

a) I get D1 lynched, or
b) RC turns up town.

Even in b) I don't feel I'd be clear, and I blame BB's prior play for that. My scumdar is being principally set off by two players so far, RC and TNE. Hence my votes, hence my FoS. Hopefully this is just paranoia. Time will tell, and in the meantime I'm going to keep explaining my position when asked, and I'm gonna keep trying to find scum.

[Rosso Carne]

dont like the centrism.

or the fact that you could have made abuot 2 posts by now, and yet you made 50.

[Tarhalindur]

Thirty-Fourth Vote Count

Rosso Carne (4) - thenextepisode, nyktorion, SlySly, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
Tamuz (1) - Johoohno
Battousai (rep. ryan) (1) - Jester
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (3) - RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), Tamuz, Battousai

Not Voting (3) - Ectomancer, Earwig, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)

7 votes to lynch.

FoS Count:

Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry) (2) - thenextepisode, Jester
Ectomancer (2) - Earwig, thenextepisode
Earwig (2) - Ectomancer, RangeroftheNorth
ryan (1) - Jester
RangeroftheNorth (1) - Johoohno
thenextepisode (1) - Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
Johoohno (1) - Nyktorion

Indigo

indicates a player in danger of replacement.

Final Day 1 Deadline:

~12:00 AM, March 5, 2008 (GMT -6)

[Fat_Tony]

dont like the centrism.

or the fact that you could have made abuot 2 posts by now, and yet you made 50.

New player, overenthusiastic. Is it the number of posts that bothers you, or the number of posts fingering you as scum?

[Tamuz]

Johoohno can you defend your vote?

[Tarhalindur]

Your mod has been short on time/lazy and let people go too long without prodding.

Again.

Earwig and thenextepisode are being prodded. They have 96 hours to reply or be replaced.

Thirty-Fifth Vote Count

Rosso Carne (4) - thenextepisode, nyktorion, SlySly, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
Tamuz (1) - Johoohno
Battousai (rep. ryan) (1) - Jester
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (3) - RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), Tamuz, Battousai

Not Voting (3) - Ectomancer, Earwig, Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)

7 votes to lynch.

FoS Count:

Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry) (2) - thenextepisode, Jester
Ectomancer (2) - Earwig, thenextepisode
Earwig (2) - Ectomancer, RangeroftheNorth
ryan (1) - Jester
RangeroftheNorth (1) - Johoohno
thenextepisode (1) - Fat_Tony (rep. Blackberry)
Johoohno (1) - Nyktorion

Indigo

indicates a player in danger of replacement.

Final Day 1 Deadline:

~12:00 AM, March 5, 2008 (GMT -6)