Mini #553: Over!

[Petunho]

Page 8 Vote Count!

Votes required:

7 to lynch

5, Matt_s

-

massive, Khelvaster, Coolbot, Imat, Talitha

1, Coolbot

-

ting =)

Not Voting:

6, Qman, destructor, Petunho, Matt_S, eljcko, crazy_vlad

Okay, I read the thread through the first time and after I have recovered from the very strange begining of the game. I got very confused with all of these unnamed/named things and accusations but now it seems that have calmed down.

It's pretty hard for me to point my clear suspicion based on just one reading of the game, but Matt has also pinged my scumradar with his actions. Matts logic has been quite disturbing, but I have to look more closely to his posts to make more clearer picture of his actions. There are also other people whos actions has been at least a bit odd and I have to digg into those too.

Ting has made good defence for Matt (much better that Matt himself has) and some of it makes sense to me. He has also been quote logicalwith his actions, which cannot be said every people here. I'm not in favor of lynching anyone off just yet, to get us more info on other people. Here are lot of people who we don't know basically anything. The main discussion has been going on between Matt and Khelvaster and a side from them other people have been much off the spotlight. We should correct this 'cause I don't fancy the fact, that we are already L-2 and we have so little info on certain people.

I really have to make a re-read of this game before jumping any votes and conlcusions.

And let you know

I'll be gone from next saturday 23.2. until next tuesday 26.2.

. I'll try to do my re-reading and posting tomorrow.

[Imat]

@Imat.
If his townness was inclusive of his unnamedness, he would have to be named town. Which he said he isn't. Even if I ignore all that though, he's still exhibited the most suspicious voting pattern. Until I find greater reason to suspect someone, I'll keep my vote on coolbot.

I won't argue the CB vote anymore, if he wants to lurk he'll just look the worse for it, sticking my own neck out for some random player doesn't strike me as a good move anymore. However, what I defended him on in the past still stands, so I personally won't vote for him unless I see something really scummy.

What I said about Matt also stands, however, so my vote won't change from him until, again, scummy behavior is seen.

[CoolBot]

Lurk? What's there to say? There's been no new attack against me, and Matt hasn't done anything to warrant removing a vote. I'm hoping some of the new players will have a new perspective, but that hasn't happened yet.

[ting =)]

@Imat, the bit you quoted was adressed to massive, I'm sorry for having labeled it wrong. Thanks for you opinion on it though.

I agree with petunho that there are some people who haven't really spoken up. I had questions for ranger, spindax and gsgold, but they've all been replaced now, so the questions are moot.

@Massive. Are you intent on keeping your vote on Matt? Since the time when the game went to a lull, khel and coolbot have confirmed that they intend to keep their vote on Matt. Imat and Talitha just got in and have voted Matt. Do you still mean to keep your vote on him till he gets lynched, or is it just for pressure?

[massive]

ting

: My question, more specifically, is: Do you believe that all Named Town players must have Fellowship names? Although, in all honesty, I can't remember why I'm asking it.

I am content with my vote on Matt_S. It's not a pressure vote. He's already claimed "unnamed vanilla" so there's nothing to gain. I just don't believe him.

[crazy_vlad]

I've had some medical problems and I wasn't able to post lately.
I 've promised some content after the replacements' opinions.
I'll read back once again everything and I'll post today my opinion.

[Talitha]

crazy_vlad: Sorry to hear you have been unwell.


Regarding Coolbot, I was under the impression that he did NOT claim to be un-named. I was under the impression that he simply claimed he did not have one of the 9 main Fellowship character names. Did I understand this correctly, Coolbot?

[Talitha]

Khelvaster: What made you mention Nazgul in post 8 of this game? Was there some flavour text indicating this that has since been removed by the mod? Or did you just assume that the scum would be the Nazgul?

[Matt_S]

Khelvaster: What made you mention Nazgul in post 8 of this game? Was there some flavour text indicating this that has since been removed by the mod? Or did you just assume that the scum would be the Nazgul?

I'm pretty sure he just assumed the scum was partly Nazgul. I say partly because I seem to remember the mod mentioning Saruman as leading the scum.

Everybody: If you have any specific questions of me, just ask. It makes it easier to defend myself because it tells me what people don't get rather than me having to explain everything.

[Khelvaster]

Khelvaster: What made you mention Nazgul in post 8 of this game? Was there some flavour text indicating this that has since been removed by the mod? Or did you just assume that the scum would be the Nazgul?

It was mostly an assumption. I have quite a bit of knowledge of The Lord of the Rings, and I figured that the 2 Nazgul+Sauron would be the most obvious scum. Second choice was Sauron/Saruman/Witch-King of Angmar (Leader of the Nazgul--his real name escapes me.) Saruman would be a godfather in this scenario, while witch-king would be a roleblocker.

Yeah, I've thought of making a LoTR theme game. I don't have enough games modded yet though. I'll probably go for a Silmarillion game once I mod a large normal game.


Anyway, there's my explanation. I love this poem from LoTR enough to commit it to memory...

Where now the horse and the rider?
Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the corn growing?
They have passed like rain on a mountain, like a wind in the meadow;
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead fire burning?
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

[ting =)]

@Massive. No. They don't have to be part of the fellowship. I think I get why you're asking it though. I'll have to think that over.

@Talitha. I've called him unnamed several times throughout the game. He's never bothered to correct me, and he's had posts that he made after I called him unnamed. For the record though:

@Coolbot. Do you have a name?

[CoolBot]

I never claimed whether I have a name or not. And I won't do so until necessary. I don't know why ting thinks I don't have a name, but I didn't want to address it for fear that it might help scum craft a claim by knowing for sure whether there are named townies outside the fellowship.

[Qman]

Note:

My only computer (a laptop) took a nosedive yesterday, and it's harddrive is toast. I'll post more when I get my wifes laptop over the weekend, but for now I gotta leave work.

[crazy_vlad]

ok guys,
finally I've finished to read all the posts again
it's pretty hard to follow everything..
never the less>
so far there were 2 bandwagons
- on Khel and on Matt.
the more I've read the more I was sure none of them should get lynched;
it would be a easy play to join the bandwagon on Matt, but I'm not buying it.
a new bandwagon started on Coolbot
coolbot - I have to say that's something I don't like about you're posts, perhaps the fact that you jumped from one bandwagon to another. also it stroke me how imat cleared you're name and rerouted the discussion to matt. once again I'm not defending matt, but as I've said in one of my previous posts I encouraged vots as a form to start debates not to put pressure just on some player (Khel or Matt)- especially as we didn't have a deadline. If I've learned something so far is to not rush into conclusions. things aren't always what they seem to be.
eljcko - maybe you were all good intended but you 've switch you're votes so many times that I lose the track.
destructor - very modest presence, very little comments, no personal vision no nothing...no good for the town.
talitha - thanks for the concern, I appreciate it. anyway, as a new comer, you've read all the posts, and didn't come with no new suspicion, no several options - you've just jump on a bandwagon, pushing for a lynch...
there are also other players in the game but right now I'm not having any more comments for them.
I am still confused. I think I'd print the hole discussion when I'll get back to work,just to have a easier track of the way things developed.
any of the ones mentioned above are on my suspects list (including Matt, minus Khel), but as there is no deadline I won't vote.

[eljcko]

I never claimed whether I have a name or not. And I won't do so until necessary.

I don't know why ting thinks I don't have a name

, but I didn't want to address it for fear that it might help scum craft a claim by knowing for sure whether there are named townies outside the fellowship.

I'm not part of the Fellowship

. That's shouldn't be surprising, as the game would be seriously broken if the town was only the Fellowship. So it's likely all a mass claim would accomplish is give the mafia clues to who our power roles are.

By claiming not fellowship, you pretty much claim you have no name like Merry of Pippen. I feel you are contradicting with the two above statements. ting thinks you have a name because you claimed no fellowship member. The only way you have a name is if you are mafia or some character that was in the game but was not a fellowsip member (like a random elf or something.) You really need to explain yourself deeper, I don't know what to think right now.

[Imat]

There are plenty of characters not in the Fellowship that had names, many of them had major roles too. Faramir, Arwen, Elrond, etc.

What is suspicious is that CoolBot hasn't told us of these other names in the past, even though he has said hes not in the Fellowship and is named. To not defend this easily reinforced arguement seems somewhat...odd...I'll be keeping a closer eye on his posts, specifically dealing with names, when I reread...

[Imat]

Actually, I think I'll

UnVote

, 5 out of 7 votes is too close for me, I felt like we haven't had nearly enough discussion to put somebody at that level.

[Talitha]

What do you want discussion on? How about posing some questions or something? Otherwise how is your unvote helping the discussion to move along? You gotta be proactive or the game will drag on, the mod will set a deadline and 9 times out of 10 a hapless townie will be lynched.

I prefer to miss out all the dragggging out of nothing and just head straight to the lynching of the hapless townie (or the hapless scum, if we get lucky.)

[Imat]

My vote was on Matt_S, I didn't want some uninformed Townies to come in and hammer out those last votes. While 2 uninformed townies (Due to replacements and such) is unlikely, 3 is much less likely than that even. So I unvoted so we can have more discussion. Things I want discussed: CoolBot's not giving examples of names outside of the fellowship but still pro-town, even though its an easy thing to give examples for. I also want to hear more from some of the unknown Townies out there, such as Destructor. Those are, currently, the things I want answers to. I realize that Matt has nothing to answer for ATM, so another reason to unvote.

[destructor]

Reread is done. I don't like the Matt wagon. He's claimed unnamed vanilla and both massive and Talitha have since clearly suggested that they thinks Matt has fake claimed, but I find this to be a huge reach just because it's would be a idiotically ballsy gambit for scum to decide to fake claim "unnamed townie" after someone suggests a name claim.

But, hey, maybe Matt has pulled an idiotically ballsy gambit. It seems kind of bastard-mod-like to only give one player an unnamed role. I can't say I've picked up on the 'named'/'unnamed dichotomy like ting has claimed to. That no one else has blatantly claimed to be unnamed

does

make me wonder. If Matt is the only person who's unnamed, maybe he has fake claimed. If he is scum, I would begin to doubt that scum have safe-claims. But right now, I don't believe Matt is scum. On that note, though...

Mod:

In light of the "unthemeing", what would happen if we went ahead with a mass name-claim?

I'm not sure where to start with the rest of my analysis, so I'll post stuff on the fly...

I wasn't impressed with Imat's entrance, mostly because he pretty much jumped right on the Matt wagon.

I don't like the suggestion that Coolbot claimed unnamed. He said quite clearly that he wasn't fellowship and left it there. In other Coolbot news, I did find his hop off the diffusing Khelvaster wagon on to the Matt wagon questionable.

@ Coolbot

- Do you think it's likely that Matt has actually fake claimed Unnamed vanilla? If not, what do you think it's likely that scum had safe-claims?

Scum wouldn't do that, he says, but then [Matt_S] went and wanted me to be lynched. That's the prbolem.

I didn't agree with this. I thought Khel was exaggerating, but perhaps more concerning was that he seemingly ignored Matt's question about what Khel thought Matt had done that suggested he wanted him lynched. He still hasn't answered this, and Matt has asked twice. This also got me thinking that if Khel is scum, scum did have safe-claims but those safe-claims didn't include "unnamed townie". But scum receiving named safe-claims while unnamed town roles existed sounds ridiculous to me, but maybe I'm getting caught up in the metagame.

@ ting

- In Post 127 you mentioned named and unnamed town

and

scum.

Vote: eljcko

I have a reason for this, but it's late and I'm too tired to write it all out. LOL. But I'll let you know I'm sure I want to be voting him. It's mostly inspired by Post 107.

Hopefully that wasn't too incoherent.

[destructor]

Goddamit. I need to preview more often before I post.

Fixed.

Ting, my question was going to be about what it was that made you think there were named and unnamed scum, because my recollection of our mod's unthemeing post was that he only spoke of town roles, but I checked it and realised it was actually quite ambigious.

[shaka!!]

Mod:

In light of the "unthemeing", what would happen if we went ahead with a mass name-claim?

You would find that some people are unable to claim a name, as stated before.

[Khelvaster]

Mod:

In light of the "unthemeing", what would happen if we went ahead with a mass name-claim?

You would find that some people are unable to claim a name, as stated before.

I cannot believe the mod here. Guys, what would you say to a mass nameclaim of former names?

I strongly feel that this could still be fruitful. Listen--going around, starting with me even if you want, and claiming names, but NOT roles, still might tell us--we have no clue whether the mod was being truthful or not. A name claim, should it break the game, would not be something the mod would admit to. Names might include non-fellowships, such as Theoden, Faramir, or other characters. The main thing to note is that the mafia might have been given "evil" names and thus be forced to either claim names and hope they aren't taken or claim nameless. Even if they did end up making safe nameclaims, we wouldn't be worse off, as the mod (and me) can confirm, there are normal, named townies.

[ting =)]

@Destructor.
I used to think that there were 4 distinct classes - named town, unnamed town, named scum, unnamed scum.

All of them would have reacted differently to a name claim. Named towns would have seen it as working. Unnamed towns would have been against it because to them, being unnamed, named people must be special (like matt wondering if khel is a power role for having a name) and so a name claim would have been a scummy move since it'd out the power roles. Named scum, assuming they have a bad name, like Sauron, would have been against a name claim. Unnamed scum would have been against it because it'd make them stand out, but after Matt claimed unnamed vanilla, that's a moot point, because they can just hide behind it now.

Now though, I'm considering that maybe it's not just fellowship names that have been used, which splits the named group into fellowship town and non-fellowship town, and ditto for the scum. Assuming that there's no fellowship scum. That would make things confusing.

After thinking things over, fellowship town and non-fellowship town might react differently to a name claim. Splitting named into 2 groups means that everyone's actions can be interpreted in a lot of different ways, depending on which group you put them in.

I don't think Matt fake claim unnamed vanilla. I'm inclined to believe it.

@Khel.
A name claim might be good. But with all the confusion and with all the talk of non-fellowship names, it'd be easy for scum to just fake claim a non-fellowship name. It might clear some things up, like the actions of coolbot, but it might also muddy the waters.

[Talitha]

I havent read the last few posts properly but wanted to post re the name claim.

I wasn't given a name when i replaced in, and I assume that the other replacees don't have names either. This doesn't mean that people who are original players shouldnt claim... I will mull over that for a while.