Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[The Fonz]

And why shouldn't they admit that, Fonz? Isn't it true? A lynch is better than none in almost all circumstances.

A lynch of a power role is of considerably lesser utility than a no-lynch in almost all circumstances.

[kabenon007]

Yes, of course, but because I know I'm not a power role, it is better, correct? Or were you all assuming for some reason that I was a power role?

[The Fonz]

No, but my point

precisely

is that BY SAYING YOU WOULDN'T MIND YOUR OWN LYNCH, YOU (if town) ARE LETTING SCUM KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT A POWERROLE.

Therefore, on a meta level, no-one who states that they don't mind being lynched should ever be allowed to live (because it's an action that has no possible benefit for a town player).

Vote: Kabenon007

[LaptopGun]

Well that's it by my count... I'm dying to know if he was telling the truth. I think he was town, but I like I said I could have bought his role claim.

[kabenon007]

Hm... my mistake Fonz. Thanks for pointing that out to me, I will remember that for later. Sorry that had to happen, but eh, learn something new everyday! Good game all, go town!

[The Fonz]

A further corrollary is that an 'information lynch' is not likely to yield any actual information if

even the person being lynched

thinks it is the best play for town.

[kabenon007]

Why though? I die, I give information about who voted for me, when they voted, my alignment, who I interacted with and how I interacted with them. Isn't that good information?

[The Fonz]

Well, yes, but how can anyone convincingly argue anyone involved with the wagon was scummy for doing so when even you agreed with your own lynch?

[Shteven]

I also am pretty sure space case's vote was the hammer, but the added discussion could prove useful.

In any case, kab, one of the problems with using the wagon for information is sheer numbers. If 8, now 9 people have voted for you - well, they're mostly town. Sorting them out is hard. There's scum on there, sure...But the scum have an automatic useful defense. There was town on there also. You can't lynch without town, so the lynch was reasonable, and so was there participation.

That's not to say you can't look at how they did it, but what they did (the vote itself) isn't useful.

[-TinVision-]

Final Vote Count of Day Two:

kabenon007 - 8 (vollkan, Justin Playfair, Oman, MelodyMan23, MadCrawdad, somestrangeflea, Jesse Gunn, Spacecase)

MelodyMan23 - 3 (Rigel, Phate, farside22)
Rigel - 1 (kabenon007)
Phate- 1 (Shteven)

Not voting - 2 (LaptopGun, The Fonz)

The clock strikes six as the crowd of citizens circles kabenon007, cutting off all avenues of escape. There is a strangled cry, a brief struggle, and it is over.

Kabenon007, Vanilla Townie

, lies dead at the hands of the lynch mob.

It is now night 2. Nightchoices are due by Monday February 25th, 9 AM EST.

[-TinVision-]

The morning dawns, cold grey light streaming through the blinds to the insistent cawing of crows. As you step outside, you feel a thousand beady black eyes fixate upon you and the air is filled with their shrill voices. Turning your collar against the cold, you head downtown and meet up as planned. All the usual gang's there, but wait... someone's missing. There were fourteen of you last night...

Your question soon finds an answer. On the next block over, flashing police lights and a maze of police tape cordon off the latest grisly scene.

Justin Playfair, Cop

, found dead, garroted, inside his own squad car. The local gumshoes smoke cigarettes and make wisecracks as if everything's jake. They know better than to nose around asking questions. A guy like that gets what's coming to him.

Day 3 has begun. With thirteen alive, it is seven to lynch.

[Oman]

Wow.

So thats one cop.

I'm starting to doubt our previous cop's truthery.

I feel like I need to start off with a vote thouhg.

Vote Schteven

Your last post rubs me all the wrong ways. Like if Adel was a stripper.

[vollkan]

In any case, kab, one of the problems with using the wagon for information is sheer numbers. If 8, now 9 people have voted for you - well, they're mostly town. Sorting them out is hard. There's scum on there, sure...But the scum have an automatic useful defense. There was town on there also. You can't lynch without town, so the lynch was reasonable, and so was there participation.

Yes, the lynch was reasonable. I don't for a second think that affords anybody a defense. People are judged based on their own individual play, not on the overall merit of a wagon.

Anyway, the first thing that needs to be done is to hear results from Jesse.

[Jesse Gunn]

I investigated LaptopGun. He is safe.

[LaptopGun]

Oh. Crap. Well I was wrong again and went after a power role (see our previous abandoned thread for that hilarity).

The Kab lynch was the only thing really worth doing as much as I hated it, but I still think it was fanned by the mafia.

Thanks Jess for confirming me in the eyes of our townies, but I think at least Oman is starting to grumble why you are still alive. Maybe this will help. I'm curious why there was only one night kill. This is going to start the inevitable "someone didnt submit a night kill" vs Doc protect. I want no role claim if there is a doc, but I think we have a doc and he protected JessGunn again. Of course I could be wrong...

I see four options, some of which support the idea he's a cop and some others neutral:
1. Doc protected Jesse Gunn who had been targeted/
2. Doc protected JG who was not targeted.
3. Doc protected someone else and Jess Gunn just happens to not have been targeted.
4. One of the night killers didn't submit a kill.

Obviously 1-3 assume the mafia and SK targeted two different people.

[LaptopGun]

ADBOW If Jess was not cop, he would have had to have guessed I was town. I am town, so there is no ploy of one scum buddy trying to help another out.

[LaptopGun]

* That should read ABWOP. I cant type

[MadCrawdad]

Im going to have to agree, lynching Kab would solve nothing and hurt us in the long run. But thats my personal opinion.

Kab, watch you said is scummy to me becasue you are trying to be "honorable", I guess you could say and just offering yourself up which I'm thinking is a last ditch effort to sway the vote away from you.

vote Kabenon007

@ Spacecase:

In looking at these two posts, can you explain how you went from all but declaring Kabenon an innocent, to actually dropping the hammer on him a mere 15 posts later?

[Spacecase]

I'm pretty sure that the claim i made answers your question. It seemed scummy to me that he would say that it was an honorable way to sacrificing himself to the town.

[Oman]

If Jess was not cop, he would have had to have guessed I was town. I am town, so there is no ploy of one scum buddy trying to help another out.

Umm, If Jess was scum, she'd know you were town or SK (and if you were the SK would you really correct her?)

[Shteven]

Vote Shteven Your last post rubs me all the wrong ways. Like if Adel was a stripper.

(Spelling of name corrected.) I believe Adel is female? If so, her stripping services are always welcome over here. *rimshot* My apologies.

Other than that, the only thing I had a problem with day 3 was laptopgun's claim that a fake cop can't invent an innocent result - as oman already corrected that's easy to do. Even so, I still believe Jesse, and so also believe laptopgun is innocent. Hope a second cop isn't killed off with Jesse still being alive, but I'm not all that worried that having Justin dead makes Jesse a liar.

Without a specific complaint about what was wrong in my last post, I can only really elaborate on the post in general. Let's say that it's likely there was either 1 or 2 scum on the wagon, and probably not 0 or 3. If it's 1/9 (I'll count fonz) then you're looking at 11% scum - more likely to find scum not on the wagon. If it's 2, then 22% scum is basically equal to our orginal setup: 4 mafia in twenty is 20%.

Not really sure where to put the SK into this or not. I just think that day 3 analysis should not be so narrow as to only look at whether or not the player was on the wagon, but rather encompass everything. It's a pretty simple thought, doesn't really say much, etc. Just because I wasn't on the wagon doesn't mean I'm town. (Although I am <.<)

[farside22]

Right now reading today I like what MadCrawdad found on space case and his reasoning seems weak.

FOS: Space case

I need to do a reread of yesterday to figure things out, but that is good to have for now

[MadCrawdad]

I'm pretty sure that the claim i made answers your question. It seemed scummy to me that he would say that it was an honorable way to sacrificing himself to the town.

So you go from basically saying that (in your opinion) Kab was innocent and his lynch would ultimately hurt the town, to hammering in a matter of 15 posts... Kab's statement that his lynch was better than no lynch REALLY swung your opinion from one extreme to the other pretty quickly.

The fact that Kab flopped around on a couple of things earlier in the day didn't get your attention, but claiming that he preferred his own lynch to none drew your vote.

Could you explain your thought process in a little more detail?

[Rigel]

Vote: MelodyMan23

You were inactive yesterday, your predecessor was inactive before you, and the both of you looked scummy as a result. I want to know what you think about the game thus far, especially the Kabenon wagon and the events of Night 2. We're down 6 townies, including the cop, out of 16. There are now 13 players and 3 mafiosos remaining, thus there is a 3/13 chance that you are not pro-town, and you're not making the odds any better.

As for the events of the night, I think that we should take Jesse's claim of LG as innocent at face value for the time being. Granted, his cop claim isn't the most secure claim ever, but given the way he cracked under pressure on Day 1, I'm going to continue to operate under the assumption that he is speaking the truth for now. That said, I'm not taking him or LG off my list of suspects, they're just getting more of the benefit of the doubt for now.

I think what we as townsfolk need to do is review all of Justin's posts and find out who he was hunting down as scum. It's within reason that he might have gotten lucky and found scum at least once, and so if he did, he's more likely to have criticized that person during the day. Thus, looking back at who he thought was scum may lead us to scum.

In addition, I want to say that I agree with MadCrawdad--I don't like Spacecase's flip-floppiness that he brought up. However, I don't want to pass judgment solely on this isolated incident, so I'm going to review Spacecase's other posts as well as Justin's. Just wanted to make that general statement first, however.

[vollkan]

I'm pretty sure that the claim i made answers your question. It seemed scummy to me that he would say that it was an honorable way to sacrificing himself to the town.

And acting honourably is a scumtell now? That's news to me. I suppose you meta'd him and checked whether or not this is something kab does.