Mini 532: Yaw's Split Open Mafia: (Game over)

[SensFan]

That last post by Skruffs really sets me off. I don't like how he assumed the Mod lied to us.

Coupled with my previous suspicions, I am very tempted to vote him soon.

[Skruffs]

MBF: Give me a break! IT was my lunch break, I was in a fit of posting at that time (look at other games I was also posting in around that time), and I saw that DP died.

Sensfan's post "Oh I was sure it was one of them" is what TRIGGURED the suspicion on him in the first place; notice how he said "I need to reread both of you" and then never does? Just sits back, chills for a while, and then starts complaining that I am suspicious of him.

I don't like how easily both of you are agreeing on me, ONE of you is playing off of the other, and you are both being blind.

Are you *seriously* suggesting I had my thoughts planned out before the day even started, Mike? Because I consider you a higher caliber player, who can build a better case on me than that.


The fact that my argument was persuasive should be suggesting that it was also genuine. The whole context of my first post was (I think) about whether YOU were smart enough to kill DP in an attempt to make me suspicious of SensFan or not: I later on wetn through EVERY game you've won in as scum and you've NEVER been in a 3 player end game as mafia. Sensfan only has a few other games, and I replaced him in one of them; which gives me the slight meta I need to think he's NOT an SK in this game. That game is still ongoing, so I can't really discuss WHY I feel that way.

And again, there you go: Insinutating without actually using logic. Appealing to suspicion instead of giving me something to talk about.

If *I* was scum, I would probably have killed YOU MBF, because DP and Sensfan did not like each other, assuming I wanted an easy win. If I wanted a HARD win, I would have killed Sensfan because he was the likely lynch target for today. If I wanted to just be tricksy, I'd have killed DP.

I *know* you can be tricksy, MBF, because I've seen some of the gambits you've done as scumin other games. I don't remember exaxctly what they are , but you talk about them in your WIKI. So I know you are CAPABLE of doing it, and if you ARE scum, you are going to win just because Sensfan is too lazy to look at the game through any other than OMGUS eyes. I don't like why you would think that I would turn the game upside down, draw attention to myself, and then attack both playeres to try and get one of them lynched. I think you are really reaching.

Sensfan, I called you out for possibly killing DP because he was the most suspicious of you, and for being blase and OMGUS about me being suspicious of you when DP, your worst accuser, turned up dead, and your 'lah de dah' response to it. You haven't really done ANYTHING to convince me otherwise, which suggests you thought you could coast through a MBF-Skruffs voting to an easy win.


Neither of you seem to be looking at the game through any perspectives than that of lazy townies, which is a scum gambit at the end of the game. Someone else has to step up and help me scruitinize.

[mikeburnfire]

I will agree with you about Sensfan on that issue that he hasn't been active enough in this game. If it came down to a coin flip vote between you and Sensfan, I'd vote him, only because I don't think he deserves to win as much as you do.

I don't like why you would think that I would turn the game upside down, draw attention to myself, and then attack both playeres to try and get one of them lynched.

Because you thought it would work? You talk about how Sensfan seems generally peeved that we didn't go after each other today, but now

you

are the one who seems upset that I'm considering all options. What's more, you accuse me of being lazy, even though I've been proactive throughout the game. If I WAS lazy, then I'd just follow you and lynch Sensfan, but I'm going to poke around for a little bit longer. I can't probe Sensfan as much because he hasn't been very prolific until recent, so that's why most of my questions seem directed at you.

[Skruffs]

Also:

Sensfan what do you know that I don't? Where did I assume the mod lied to us? Has he said that roles were independantly, RANDOMLY, distributed between alignments, somewhere? Because it doesn't say that in the first post, as far as I saw, yesterday or whenever my last large post was. Because it doesn't say the roles-alignment combinations were not RANDOMLY arranged, I have no reason to think the mod wouldn't try to arrange things in the way he schooses: think about it this way, what 'better' combination of roles could the mafia have received?

Role Switcher alllows them to trade off any roles to themselves and prohibit town from keeping them ( even for example trading the cop role to a dead role)
Doctor allows them to protect themselves from the SK

Mason *COULD* have allowed them to have a 'fourth party' player at night.

Role Opener is technically a pro-town role; however with the role switcher mafia controlled it would not have resulted in being useful EXCEPT to prove wether someone had been RB'd or not.

Roleblocker would DEFINITELY be more helpful to the SK; and MBF ambiguous forgetting' why he targetted who he did n1 isn't helping his case, from my perspective.

[Skruffs]

"You talk about how Sensfan seems generally peeved that we didn't go after each other today, but now you are the one who seems upset that I'm considering all options. What's more, you accuse me of being lazy, even though I've been proactive throughout the game."

This is not true. I am peeved that both of you have said that you want to lynch me without really explaining why, and the excuses you HAVE been giving are kind of cop-outs rather than actual attempts, and seem to be more based on getting Sensfan to agree with you than actually lookign at the options. All propoganda, and not really much analysis. And that's what I am calling lazy; the lack of drive and/or risk associated with scum hunting, not the nuber of posts.

[bird1111]

Vote Count:

Not voting (3): mikeburnfire, Skruffs, SensFan

With 3 alive it is 2 to lynch.

[SensFan]

Sensfan what do you know that I don't? Where did I assume the mod lied to us? Has he said that roles were independantly, RANDOMLY, distributed between alignments, somewhere? Because it doesn't say that in the first post, as far as I saw, yesterday or whenever my last large post was. Because it doesn't say the roles-alignment combinations were not RANDOMLY arranged, I have no reason to think the mod wouldn't try to arrange things in the way he schooses: think about it this way, what 'better' combination of roles could the mafia have received?

Now that you mention it, I went back and checked, and you're right. I was sure I remember seeing that the roles were distributed randomly, though...

MOD

: Were the roles and alignments assigned RANDOMLY? Or did you choose which roles were Mafia, SK, and Town?

I randomized which Role Stub was given to each person, then randomized which Alignment Stub was given to each person.

[Skruffs]

Well, I can't argue against hte mod.

[bird1111]

Another 24 hours without posting? Only way this game isn't ending on the current deadline is if there is a last second replacement.

[bird1111]

Over 48 hours since the last post not made by me? Do you all want me to shorten the amount of time you all have left? Because I'd be happy to do so.

[mikeburnfire]

Sheesh

mod

, Give me a break. I told you last time I was going to be unable to post until the weekend and you deadline us anyway. I didn't mention that I was going to be gone this weekend because it was only 2 days. I didn't think you'd flip about it.

In my experience, when a game dies, its hard to get it going again. Therefore I was trying to keep this game from dying.

[bird1111]

Skruffs and SensFan prodded.

[Skruffs]

The game isn't dying; with only three p eople, there is less to respond to and less postings made. We'll reach a conclusion one way; don't punish town by deadlining them.

[Skruffs]

(I was also very busy this weekend, unexpectedly so)

[SensFan]

Yeah, I'm here.

As the other have said, the tend to be less posts with less people.

[bird1111]

My bad, I panicked as the last two times a game I ran had gotten this bad, it was extremely hard to get going. I apoligize for being too harsh.

[SensFan]

Can the deadline for 6 days from now be lifted?

I'll extend it by 96 hours. Sometime around 2 weeks from now I'm gone for a week, and I'd perfer the game to be over by then.

[mikeburnfire]

that's what I am calling lazy; the lack of drive and/or risk associated with scum hunting, not the nuber of posts.

This from the person who kept coming up with a bunch of theories that were highly unlikely and only worked if the cop was scum or the mafia was doing the riskiest gambit ever.

I never said that I wanted to lynch you today. I may have been leaning against you when day began, but I have been spending the entire day asking questions and trying to win this game. I am getting annoyed with how you accuse me of being lazy, posting fluff, and not analyzing enough.

And yes, I *AM* suggesting that you had your thoughts planned out before the day even started. You began the day with a sudden and unexpected swing against Sensfan. As a SK, you may have predicted that, given my hasty hammer votes and playing by gut, you could have easily manipulated me and quickly won the game. You are vocally annoyed at how my play has changed from being indifferent and callous to careful and hesitant. I have been asking you and Sensfan questions for some time now in an effort to find the SK and you take this as an attack on you.

Going back to another one of your statements,

"You[Sensfan] are disgruntled that you aren't automatically cleared, which makes it look like the theory about you vs drunken piper is right,
mikeburnfire is acting like someone who just wants someone else to get lynched; he's basically saying 'goading' type things without REALLY putting himself at risk by theorizing, at least not theorizing anything fresh. "

This came immediately after I was in the middle of questioning Sensfan. Then you come along and say "Sensfan is scummy for these reasons, but MBF is scummy for these reasons". You were the one doing the goading, not me.

[Skruffs]

Saying "I'm willing to lynch him" or "I think this guy is the SK" is goading, posting reasons is not, and to be honest your main case, that I had a 'persuasive argument nine minutes after day started' and thus could be scum, is ridiculous. There is absolutely no basis behind suggesting that because I posted my first day's response quickly, that I was 'ready' for it; you are either inferring that I am too stupid(as town) to be able to process information quickly, or don't have enough common sense (as scum) to 'wait' and let you guys wifom yourselves. I could just as easily say that you didn't respond and thus were waiting for someoen to fall into a trap you set, but, that would be WIFOM and useless.

If you look at my wordings, versus yours, and if you really want me to

Lastly, there was absolutely no questioning in the post previous to the one where I mentioned the goading:
"You're talking to Skruffs as if he is town though, chastising him for not anticipating the SK's moves. This leads me to believe that either you are either not as indecisive as you lead, or that you are scum letting your inside knowledge slip.

Also, you keep saying that the SK planned to get you lynched through WIFOM, but you're using WIFOM as your defense. "

My post as in response to Sensfan's post above yours: "You've been here at MS for 2 and a half years, and yet you seem to assume that the SK could never have been intelligent enough to think up a WIFOM argument such as that one. That bothers me."

For the record, WIFOM is about forcing someone to choose between two choices, neither of which are the right choice, when in actuality there is a third choice that isn't usually known. The "Wifom" involved in killing DP is two fold: First, it directs more attention to Sensfan. There are only two options there, though. Did Sensfan kill DP thinking me and MBF would attack each other, or, did one of me or MBF kill DP with the intentions of lynching Sensfan afterwards? I don't think there's a third option that is invisible to us, yet; I also don't think that it is QUITE fair to use DP's death as concrete evidence, we have to look at the playstyle of the players instead.

MBF called out a 'slip' he say in Sansfan, but if you look, I have been trying to look at HOW you guys are plaything as well as WHY I am looking at that play style.

You can attack me for having stupid theories, MBF, but they weren't stupid until they were disproved; WHY was it stupid to theorize that the cop could have been scum; we now know that alignments and roles were both assigned randomly. Why was it stupid to theorize that mafia was gambitting, when looking at it, we now see that they WERE in fact gambitting horribly? Why is there ANYTHING wrong in lookiong at as much of the game and trying to devise 'puzzle pieces' to fit the ones we don't know the shape of in an attempt to see what fits and what doesn't?


Lastly: You r assessment on me is backwards. You were VERY involved int he game, and I didn't mind your rambunctiousness at all, when there was still mafia alive and you were trying to hunt them. Today your playstyle has not become more hesitant and careful, unless you mean in regards to leading votes on each other. It's more subdued, more restrained, yes, and the gung-ho 'let's find scum' attitude you had in previous days *IS* gone, which is what I was calling out. It's smart to be reserved at LYLO unless you have a strong case against someone, but, you started off the day more just laying back and occasionally flicking at people; I don't think you asked ANY questions until I called you out on your reservations, and I think before then you were more just trying to play me and Sensfan off of each other.

[mikeburnfire]

You are technically correct in that there were no questions in the post previous to your goading one, but I

was

calling Sensfan out on things that I anticipated him to defend against.

And as I have already mentioned, it was stupid to insist that the cop was scum as his actions led to the killing of two scums, and the other theories only make sense if the scum, even having 2 or 3 powerful roles, felt the need to make an incredibly risky gambit. You say that they WERE gambitting horribly, but what you are not considering is that the gambit they made was NOT by choice-- it was because they were backed into a corner by the cop. Up until one was pinned in a corner they had played fairly conservatively. And I am NOT upset that you were trying to find new theories, but that you kept repeating the same theories even after I explained why they were dumb.

And as for my beginning of day play, you are skewwing it way out of perspective. I saw the lynch scene, gave my initial gut reaction, but stated that I would need to go back and review thoroughly before I voted (not all of us can have our arguments ready in under ten minutes).

[Skruffs]

My arguments are ALWAYS on the fly, MBF : In fact, you are pointing that out yourself in this very post. I talk about what I see and leave it up to other players to contribute and point out their own impressions. I don't see why you can give your gut reaction, and I can't.

As for horribly gambitting:The role switcher claimed a cop with a guilty on the mafia doctor, which outed the doctor who then became a target for the SK.
You don't think there would have been 8 or 9 better targets? Even just claiming to be the mafia doctor would have been better, but if you want to insist they were not playing badly, that's fine.

When it comes down to it, I have not been as SURE about what people or or were doing as you have been, and there's nothing inherently wrong about it. You, being the role blocker, had a strong lead to go on after you became a mason, which incidentally was a HORRIBLE move to make;they absolutely should have kiled someonme they didn't switch the role of, it led RIGHT BACK t o the role switcher.

I don't know what to think; you are saying I am blowing things out of proportion but that's how I do things; especialy at end game, itpays to stir things up, let the chips fall where they may, and tally things up .

[mikeburnfire]

The role switcher COUNTER claimed a cop. He was pinned into a corner and if he didn't pretend to have a guilty on the scumdoctor that he was distancing from earlier, he would have looked incredibly suspicious.

As for the other arguments, it may just be that your playstyle rubs me the wrong way.

[Skruffs]

Unless he claimed an innocent on someone else, right?

[Skruffs]

*pokes sen*

[mikeburnfire]

Grounded, don't know for how long. Don't know what kind of access I will have until further notice. If I need to be replaced, I am very sorry. Hopefully I can have an update of the situation by Friday night EST.

This could be a problem.