PIRATES v. NINJAS! Game Over!

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Rogueben: 2 (Primate, cicero)
UltimaAvalon: 1 (Kison)
mikeburnfire: 1 (Thesp)

Not voting: 9 (Iammars, Cogito Ergo Sum, mikeburnfire, Lawrencelot, UltimaAvalon, ooba, The Fonz, MrBuddyLee, Rogueben)

7 to lynch!

Deadline will be ~20th March.

As things stand, no-one would be lynched at deadline.

[Lawrencelot]

Hello guys. Just so you know, I have been reading up until page 64 before I got my role pm, as I was in the replacements list but didn't have time when the game just started. Some thoughts from what I read while not being in the game:
-Guardian: when reading the game, I was more or less wrong about Guardian. I didn't think he was acting very protown, but when he said that he was attacked because he posted a lot, I believed him, as I've seen that happen several times with him and with myself too. I do want to point out that we can't take his word that there is another goblin: there might be more, but he might also be the only goblin. I could see Guardian say there is another goblin while he is the only one, as I know him as someone who fakes claims and post restrictions. And, if there's 1 goblin, it would make sense that there is 1 communist and 1 vampire, while there are 2 or more ninjas and pirates. This is all just a theory of course, please tell me what you think of it. Ooba's theory sounds plausible too,

if he didn't invent the italicised text himself

. I first thought he got it from a book or something, but I don't know what to think of it now. But mike's reaction to that is interesting.
-Thesp: while being wrong about Guardian, I was right about Thesp. At the start, when he asked to claim pirate or ninja, I found him scummy, but he looked more protown later, and when MBL was resurrected, I was 80% sure Thesp was a vig or other powerrole that would benefit from cops/finders. It could be interesting to check who's been attacking Thesp a lot before his claim.
-Erg0: come on guys. It was obvious he was scum. While we know nothing about the amount of goblins, I think it was pretty obvious Guardian spoke the truth about Erg0. How he knew that Thok was a threat to the goblins I don't know, but we can see that it was just in his interest to out another scum like Erg0. We should look at the defenders of Erg0 too.

A short summary of what I think about the living players:
-Cicero: appears town to me. Has appeared town to me the whole game, actually. If he's scum, he's good.
-CES: need to hear more from him before I get a read on him.
-Iammars: I think I believe his claim. I don't remember who claimed buffy (erg0?) and who of these 2 claimed first, but if Iammars claimed before buffy then there isn't room for a lot of doubt (although we shouldn't take it for granted).
-Kison: not sure about him. If his playstyle is different than normal, he looks a bit scummy, but maybe he's always like this (and then I mean saying "hi", commenting on a few small things, then disappear). He also said once that he's town, of which I don't think it's a big problem, but I know others see this as a tell, so I thought I'd point it out.
-MBF: scummy, although when I read the game before Guardian was lynched, I thought MBF was town, because he defended Guardian while Guardian was being attacked a lot. Now we know Guardian is scum, we should take a closer look at this guy.
-MBL: just a vig. Very small possibility that he changed alignment, though the ones that suggested this are not more or less scummy than others.
-ooba: He didn't get lynched. I thought of 2 possibilities when this happened: there's a governor, or ooba has lynch-immunity (1-shot or not). I'm not sure, but I think it would be a bit too broken for scum to have a lynch-immunity with this crosskill rule, and a scum governor also doesn't seem likely, so I think I'm leaning towards town for this guy.
-Primate: don't have a good read on him. He does not appear scummy to me though, so I'd say a bit more town than scum.
-Rogueben: acts scummy. I understand the wagon on him, and I'd follow if he was the only scummy person.
-The Fonz: town. Just the vibes, but strong vibes. Who was the one that said something like "I suggest Fonzie" (for a kill or lynch)?. Ah, my memory...
-Thesp: see above. He's a day vig, 1-shot or not.
-UA: got scummy vibes from him. IIRC he was the one who said massclaiming is good D1. Since we now know scum got safeclaims, we should take a closer look at him.

I will vote after I investigate the posts of the players I find scummy. That might take some time though, maybe this weekend I can find the time (I'll still be around though). Please ask me questions if you have them, though FlameAxe's behaviour isn't my cup of tea. And don't abbreviate my name as Lance plz.

[ooba]

Welcome to the game...

I could see Guardian say there is another goblin while he is the only one, as I know him as someone who fakes claims and post restrictions. And, if there's 1 goblin, it would make sense that there is 1 communist and 1 vampire, while there are 2 or more ninjas and pirates. This is all just a theory of course, please tell me what you think of it. Ooba's theory sounds plausible too,

if he didn't invent the italicised text himself

. I first thought he got it from a book or something, but I don't know what to think of it now. But mike's reaction to that is interesting.

The only problem with this is that the kills do not match. The kill flavour seems to point towards a Pirate,Ninja,Goblin scum groups too.

-Iammars: I think I believe his claim. I don't remember who claimed buffy (erg0?) and who of these 2 claimed first, but if Iammars claimed before buffy then there isn't room for a lot of doubt (although we shouldn't take it for granted).

Iammars claimed after Erg0 did.

-Erg0: come on guys. It was obvious he was scum. While we know nothing about the amount of goblins, I think it was pretty obvious Guardian spoke the truth about Erg0. How he knew that Thok was a threat to the goblins I don't know, but we can see that it was just in his interest to out another scum like Erg0. We should look at the defenders of Erg0 too.

-The Fonz: town. Just the vibes, but strong vibes. Who was the one that said something like "I suggest Fonzie" (for a kill or lynch)?. Ah, my memory...

I was the one who suggested MBL vig Fonz - It had to do with Fonz's behavior in Twilight day 2 after guardian scum outed erg0 scum. All that 'Feed fish,lets not believe Guardian - Look at the scum talking' - seemed to be Erg0 defending to me ...

[cicero]

Ooba, I just read Fonz from his post 47 (using drop down menu) throughout the Thesp-Erg0 affair. I can't say I see what you seem to say you saw, see. So, still seein' such, son? Or was it a momentary thing? I get the whole /ignore Guardian thing for sure. But if you'll recall, Guardian had just opened his mouth and let fly a steaming pile of Wifeces in all directions. After that, Fonz pretty much went along with all the same moves that most of us did. He distinctly does not defend Erg0. He works to get him to claim and get him beheaded. So I'm not following. :S

[ooba]

Ooba, I just read Fonz from his post 47 (using drop down menu) throughout the Thesp-Erg0 affair. I can't say I see what you seem to say you saw, see. So, still seein' such, son? Or was it a momentary thing? I get the whole /ignore Guardian thing for sure. But if you'll recall, Guardian had just opened his mouth and let fly a steaming pile of Wifeces in all directions. After that, Fonz pretty much went along with all the same moves that most of us did. He distinctly does not defend Erg0. He works to get him to claim and get him beheaded. So I'm not following. :S

Well it was just the vibe i had from that post - I did notice he does attack Erg0 later on - but its just something i haven't been able to shake off.

[cicero]

Look - I'm not remotely interested in defending Fonzie. He's a good player and the only tell on the guy I have, I'm not sharing yet (sorry Fonzie) but he hasn't yet manifested. But what I'm having a bigger problem with is that the feeling you can't shake doesnt accord with the facts. I went back after my last post and read the whole context and your view of it doesn't accord with an honest reading of the game... in my humble opinion. Even before the feed fish post he presses Erg0. And the /ignore Guardian quote is a direct result of Guardian mentioning Fonz and saying

fonz -- you never really adequately explained how you found me out. but i dont have role based on you, just you're scummy as anything. maybe your group targeted me :\.

which was made alongside an accusation of Erg0 but also Thok (later shown to be Guardian protector) and subsequent to this post:

anyways, i tried to kill erg0 last night. he is 100% scum.

I also have role-based information that Thok is on an opposing scum faction. well, my buddy does. so he is another good lynch. 100% scum.


ooba is fairly clearly scum with Erg0//bussing from last two posts. Look at him, too.

tsq & Fonz (in the eyes of my and my buddy's scumdar from yesterday) are also likely scum. thesp maybe, but long shot.

Hm. There are some lynches for you. Please employ them. go goblins. And if not goblins, gl town. we have 2 members (me + one other) so plz try not to find him/her, we were pretty disadvantaged from the start and then I effed up.

we estimate the pirates and ninjas have... 4? maybe 3? We had advantage of flavor and PR, I bet they have numbers. definitely 3 scum groups though. maybe both other scum groups are pirates and ninjas is a red herring.

which accuses Thok, TSQ, Fonz, Thesp (longshot) and you, Ooba.

to which Fonz responds

My God, if there were any more WIFOM there, I'd swear I was actually in a wine bar.

Which, frankly, is just an obvious articulation of the truth.

So basically Guardian is spewing out accusations at random in an attempt to confuse the town and Fonz points it out with posts that demonstrate the eyerolling it deserves, and then proceeds to

continue

and

step-up

his pre-existing attacks on Erg0 and works to get the guy beheaded:

Simple way around that:

Thesp: vig or die

If a normal lynch majority posts that, I don't see how he has a choice. He vigs if he can.

and you have the temerity to call out, not for his lynch, not making a case for his scumminess, but rather for our vigilante, who has a history of having an itchy trigger finger, to VIG Fonz... based on that??

Why

shouldn't

we lynch you again, like we did once already? Are you reading the game at all? Do you care who dies or why? or is it all cool as long as you're alive at the end?

[mikeburnfire]

MBF: scummy, although when I read the game before Guardian was lynched, I thought MBF was town, because he defended Guardian while Guardian was being attacked a lot. Now we know Guardian is scum, we should take a closer look at this guy.

Yeah, but on Day 2 I suddenly turned and voted him immediately. Hint hint.

[ooba]

Why

shouldn't

we lynch you again, like we did once already? Are you reading the game at all? Do you care who dies or why? or is it all cool as long as you're alive at the end?

Of course, I'm reading the game. If you notice , i did not push for Fonz's lynch today since i went back and re-read those parts. I am currently re-reading the game - will get back to you with my suspicions.

-- ooba

[Thesp]

Why

shouldn't

we lynch you again, like we did once already?

Do you think this is a good idea?

[ooba]

Why

shouldn't

we lynch you again, like we did once already?

Do you think this is a good idea?

No i do not think it is a good idea.

[Rogueben]

I've been doing some back-reading and come to a couple of conclusions.

1. If Primate is scum, he is not likely to be a ninja. This is because MGM (Ninja Finder) suspected Jordan24 of being ninja. See post 142.

2. UA is a possible pirate. See his post 901 where he says don't lynch the now two confirmed pirates.

3. The Fonz's post 1175 could be seen as scum coaching.

That's all I've got for the moment. I'll try and post some more tomorrow.

[Thesp]

Why

shouldn't

we lynch you again, like we did once already?

Do you think this is a good idea?

No i do not think it is a good idea.

Let me rephrase my question. cicero, do you think this is a good idea?

[cicero]

Ask a real question, get a real answer. I'm waiting.

[Thesp]

Ask a real question, get a real answer. I'm waiting.

I'm asking because it's somewhat unclear to me as to whether or not you think it's a good idea to lynch ooba. If it should be obvious to me, can you clarify it anyway?

[cicero]

Ask a real question, get a real answer. I'm waiting.

I'm asking because it's somewhat unclear to me as to whether or not you think it's a good idea to lynch ooba. If it should be obvious to me, can you clarify it anyway?

I thought it was a good idea to pressure Ooba on what he did and see where it led. If I was sure for sure he was scum I'd vote Ooba and say something like "guys, I think Ooba's the play." Final decision on voting Ooba would follow interrogation. Why are you interrupting my process?

/frustrated artist.

[Thesp]

Ask a real question, get a real answer. I'm waiting.

I'm asking because it's somewhat unclear to me as to whether or not you think it's a good idea to lynch ooba. If it should be obvious to me, can you clarify it anyway?

I thought it was a good idea to pressure Ooba on what he did and see where it led. If I was sure for sure he was scum I'd vote Ooba and say something like "guys, I think Ooba's the play." Final decision on voting Ooba would follow interrogation. Why are you interrupting my process?

/frustrated artist.

Thanks. I'll get out of the way now.

[cicero]

It's too late now. But it's a serious question: Why were you interrupting with such an odd question? What's your motivation in interrupting that flow?

Anyway, yes. Ooba needs a great deal more scrutiny. I thought his call for vigging like that based on no evidence was indicative of scum being curious about Fonz and wanting to see what was "under the hood" without using their nightkill to do it.

Actually it now occurs to me that he could also be Fonz's scumbuddy doing a feeble distancing because he gambled that no one would pay attention to it.( Not feeble as an insult, feeble in strength of effectiveness. quite a clever ploy actually, if it turns out true.)

Or he could just be a townie who needed someone to tell him to be more careful. Which I've now done.

While we're on it, Fonz

could

use some more scrutiny too. I think he's sailing through a bit under the radar. But I don't see anything I can hook him with yet. He seems town to me. He's saying the right things at the right times. But ultimately, that's hardly conclusive. I'd recommend a good dose of scrutiny and follow up questions if someone spots something but not a vigging in the night based on the accusation that he defended Erg0 when he, in fact, attacked Erg0.

Anyway, I still haven't moved my vote which is based on Rogueben being a safe play for today, for the moment. I still think there's a very good chance he's our last pirate.

[Thesp]

It's too late now. But it's a serious question: Why were you interrupting with such an odd question? What's your motivation in interrupting that flow?

I thought the flow was over, and I think the likelihood of ooba being scum is very low (though I acknowledge the possibility). I like you spurring him into action, while simultaneously thinking that a desire to lynch ooba would be very odd.

[cicero]

Why is it low? Because the lynch failed?

[Thesp]

Why is it low? Because the lynch failed?

This is a substantial part of the reason, yes. (This is also why I acknowledge it's not 100% likely he's town.)

[cicero]

Why is it low? Because the lynch failed?

This is a substantial part of the reason, yes. (This is also why I acknowledge it's not 100% likely he's town.)

I've considered that. I feel in games with pirates, a governor is likely for flavor reasons. But of course he could be town. But by no means do I think that mechanic is enough to make it highly unlikely that he's scum. If you look back at his wagon (which admittedly I havent done in a bit and dont have time to do at time of this writing so correct me if I'm wrong) I recall there being some who really thought it was an asinine wagon. They were visibly irritated by it. Then he got spared. So I agreed when someone opined that their might be a governor. Makes more sense than lynch immunity to me for some reason.

Naturally, one time lynch immunity doesnt clear anyone either, does it? We don't know what powers scum have. You could still be the Ninja daykiller after all. (Incidentally, I note that when you killed Erg0 you used the phrase "Kill" and not the phrase "Dayvig".)

So at the very least, I think it's a tactical error to cross Ooba off our list over that event.

Is there more?

[Lawrencelot]

Cicero: why do you think Rogueben isn't just scum, but pirate? And I agree we shouldn't forget Ooba, though with several scummy people around I think he wouldn't be a good lynch target for now.

Ooba: yeah the kills of my theory don't match, as I noticed later. I saw there was some cult speculation going around, but I think I'm on the "cults aren't very likely in this game" side. Maybe there are 1-man scum groups with different powers than killing? Maybe there's a 1-man scum group with lynch immunity lol.

MBF: you suddenly turned around and voted Guardian. What's the hint? I thought you were hinting that you're a cop, but in this situation that would mean goblin finder, but Twomz was our goblin finder. Nvm if you can't explain, but for now I don't see this as a defense or something.

Rogueben: Huh? Because the ninja finder thinks primate is a ninja, primate is likely not to be a ninja?

So, Iammars claimed after buffy. Why do people believe Iammars again? And who does not believe Iammars, and care to explain why?

[cicero]

Cicero: why do you think Rogueben isn't just scum, but pirate? And I agree we shouldn't forget Ooba, though with several scummy people around I think he wouldn't be a good lynch target for now.

I'm gonna go back to my "so crazy and obvious it's probably true" theory and suggest humbly the possibility that the last pirate is Rogueben. Without going back and digging up every quote, I do think that TSQ is ballsy enough to N0 kill Dripping Goofball after talking about it.

I also note that if you look at Skruff's talk there's a few glaring examples of possible distancing without attacking when he gives an FOS to TSQ and also spends time criticizing his play in a mini they were in together over some post restriction ploy.

Not definitive but worth considering.

[ooba]

So, Iammars claimed after buffy. Why do people believe Iammars again? And who does not believe Iammars, and care to explain why?

I'm willing to believe Iammars claim cause

a) He claimed when he didn't have to
b) Vampire finder fits as a red herring role

I agree.

I'm wondering if we've

now

reached the moment where all good townies should mass claim. The docs are dead, it looks like. Of course the last person to suggest a mass claim was skruffs...

He claimed before claus was killed and revealed as a Communist finder .

PS: What happened to the mass claim idea?

[cicero]

Each time it is suggested it is met with a silence most deafening.