Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[Oman]

I'm with farside, its not growing too fast at all.

[LaptopGun]

Welcome dahill1. I wish this could be a better greeting, but I have to call you into question.

FOS dahill1

This is for after he gets back, but I

intend

to vote dahill1. I refuse to vote until he is actually back, but when he is back and does not resolve these issues to my satisfaction, I will vote him. Dahi1l jumped into the game and saw fit to attack the player most of us think is the cop (I'm not going to rehash the argument earlier). He may have made a noobie mistake; however he then turns around and FOS than votes spacecase. Quick change of thought+ quick accusation+ quick unexplained vote does niot look good by itself. Both his posts angainst Jess and spacecase together look like a very inexperianced scum more than an inexperianced townie. I agree with what has been said. This looks like a case that mafia want to push the stalled spacecase wagon, because that right now is the case with the most traction. I will also point out that Melodyman left without explaining himself and his few moves were not exactly pro town either. Admitedly he probably wouldn't know what Melody Man was thinking, but he should try to explain what his behavior was. A townie should be able to do that much at least.

I hate to push a player who has just joined, but this course of action has the potential to reveal a scum and/or bring new dialog on spacecase. Space case is also the next person I'd like to hear from- he needs to explain himself. That looks like a better option than screaming someone is scummy because they aren't posting until we are all blue in the face.

[somestrangeflea]

Listen the lynch was better then no lynch at all.

I don't think there was an imminent deadline No-Lynch.
The lynch was, indeed, better than no-lynch.

But did you genuinely believe no-lynch was a possibility?

Your views did a complete 180, and you made no mention of wanting to avert a No Lynch (not that that is necessarily a justification anyway). The fact that no lynch is usually better than lynch does not mean that you can backflip and jump on the largest wagon and then find yourself being held culpable unreasonable.

this.

Could you clarify why you quote me here?

I intended to indicate agreement with the post in question.

[Spacecase]

Nope, didn't scare away the noob. Sorry a lot has been going on with the recent death threats and the crazy amount of homework tagged along with this kinda stuff. Give me an hour to catch up.

[farside22]

I just went over spacecase comments more. Here were some things that really stood out.

Spacecase: Post 61 hinting at interrogating veteran players. Post 65 agrees that CKD was deliberate to be taken out night 0. Post 63 says Wesaq confused him. Post 68 votes against Wesaq. Why wait to vote against a person you feel confused about 5 post later? Post 174 expresses doubt in claimed cop Jesse. Other things noted:

Im going to have to agree, lynching Kab would solve nothing and hurt us in the long run. But thats my personal opinion.

vollkan wrote:
Kab has been the best firm lead I have been able to find thus far. I do think he is the scummiest thus far, and that he is a decent lynch.

Is this inferring that we should lynch him and get it over with?

Kab, watch you said is scummy to me becasue you are trying to be "honorable", I guess you could say and just offering yourself up which I'm thinking is a last ditch effort to sway the vote away from you. vote Kabenon007

Confirm vote: Spacecase was posting carefully day 1, but not enough to get ignored. When Justin asked him some questions he only really answered one of the accusations.

[Spacecase]

yes my posting has been getting progressively slower do to certain events (i.e. JRP, V Tennis and ACT). Anyway I will try my hardest to keep current with this game.

[Spacecase]

Can anybody clarify exactly why there was a case on Melody man. I'm having a hard time finding it since my reading is totally inept.

[Rigel]

Melodyman made 2 posts in the entire time he was here. One was a vote, and one was his weak explanation of why he voted the way he did, which basically involved following Justin because he "had to vote". This was on February 7 and 8. This is also after his predecessor, Wesaq, posted a total of 4 times. Melodyman has also not posted all Day. So the case is based on his complete lack of doing anything on his part, and his predecessor's part, and potentially his successor's part, at this rate.

I would prefer you addressed the case on yourself at this point, however, not the case on Melodyman/dahill.

[dahill1]

i managed to get ahold of a computer at a bed and breakfast i'm staying at so here is my response:

to laptopgun--it geniunely was a newb mistake for the jesse suspicion, i thought there was only one cop so then he would be lying..the reason i didn't vote him was because as i said before, justin never confronted jesse for some reason so it must have been a good one. now i believe there to be 2 cops, hence my reversal

to vollkan--i voted for spacecase because his avoidance of questions
however he now has an excuse for lack of posting, but my vote will stay on him until he answers

[Shteven]

I'd certainly agree that melody man hasn't been helpful, but in my opinion, lynches based off a singular post like that are no better than random. I've seen it catch mistaken town too often (as random lynches are ~75% town). I'm still quite concerned about him though but because of Dahill's mistakes on Jesse: first assuming he couldn't be the cop because Justin died, and then not voting a lying cop. Concern, however, isn't the same as suspicious. I can't convince myself that it's a scum tell instead of a newbie mistake, so I'm WIFOMing between those two. Still prefer a Spacecase lynch atm - glad to see he's around and posting, even if it's been brief so far.

I am a bit concerned that no one seems to be discussing anyone other than these two, although I myself am guilty of this. In an attempt to get something else started, I'll

FOS: The Fonz

. This is based on nothing solid - so please don't overreact. But you seem to be echoing generic townie sentiments, for example specifically in post 448 where you basically just repeated my post. Who do you think are scum, Fonz? And if it's spacecase/dahill, then for the sake of argument please include a few people who aren't top picks for the day - I haven't seen much scum hunting from you so far. If I looked closely, I'm sure I could find others, but you're up first.

[MadCrawdad]

I'm with farside, its not growing too fast at all.

Oman, I think the issue that folks may have with the wagon's speed, is that 'haste makes waste.' While there's a good chance that Spacecase is scum, giving him a chance to defend himself is probably more prudent than just lynching him for lurking.

Something that intrigues me a little, is that on a couple of other occasions you've seemed rather eager to lynch with minimal discussion. In the first quote below, you prod the town to get on with the Kab lynch, and in the second one you're willing to just lynch/vig Phate AND farside (even though Justin also interacted with a handful of other folks during the game).

Kabenon is scum, lets all lynch him please.

Hmm, good point. I'd be willing to assume he investigated one of phate and farside guilty.

It worth lynching them both (/viging one) of course, pre-set lynches can always be changed ad hoc.

Something else of interest is that early on Days 2 and 3, you wasted no time in expressing doubt as to whether Jesse is truly the cop as claimed.

Okay, I'm back from my holidays guys (I'll change the sig soon )

I missed the whole of D1, but firstly I'm astounded that Jessie claimed D1, and then investigated the townie that died.

Mighty coincidental, I mean, I certainly am not holding the fact that Jessie survived against him/her, as Fonz said , lotsa possible docs here.

FoS: Phate

for that, and

IGMEOY: Jessie

for that conicendence.

FoS Laptop Gun

For somehow getting "SK" out of Phates post, stinks of knowledge.

Wow.

So thats one cop.

I'm starting to doubt our previous cop's truthery.

I feel like I need to start off with a vote thouhg.

Vote Schteven

Your last post rubs me all the wrong ways. Like if Adel was a stripper.

The fact that you seem to be pushing lynches with minimal discussion seems odd. Also, several times you've been forced to backtrack when questioned about your reasons (ie, Justin interacting with others vs. only Phate/farside, and Spacecase lurking for 4 days vs. a week). Additionally, the fact that you cast suspicion on Jesse at the last two daybreaks makes me question your affiliation within the town.

Wouldn't you agree that more discussion is better than less when settling on a lynch candidate?

[Oman]

Oman, I think the issue that folks may have with the wagon's speed, is that 'haste makes waste.'

There is no haste. My point is (as farside put it better) that its not growing at an ecceptional speed.

Where has he not had a chance to defend himself.

While there's a good chance that Spacecase is scum, giving him a chance to defend himself is probably more prudent than just lynching him for lurking.

This looks like scumbuddies to me.

Alignment based FoS: MCD

[MadCrawdad]

Oman, I think the issue that folks may have with the wagon's speed, is that 'haste makes waste.'

There is no haste. My point is (as farside put it better) that its not growing at an ecceptional speed.

Where has he not had a chance to defend himself.

While there's a good chance that Spacecase is scum, giving him a chance to defend himself is probably more prudent than just lynching him for lurking.

This looks like scumbuddies to me.

Alignment based FoS: MCD

Okay. You might want to quickly review to see who was first to bring the crux of the argument against Spacecase to light..... and note that fact that I didn't say we shouldn't lynch Spacecase (only proceed more cautiously after the Kab wagon). You, however, hopped on him for lurking (something that half the town has been doing on day 3).

Here in post 407 you claim to believe that Spacecase is just a newbie... you mention to Shteven that you're not really buying Spacecase's quick reversal on Kab as a scumtell...

It's not only that he hammered, but also the way he did it.

Ah, it just seems like a lot of effort for scum to actually JUMP on a wagon that is already going to deadline lynch. I see what you mean though, its quite a jump.

Here again in 407 you reaffirm your belief that Spacecase is just a newb...

And adding to my point is (correct me if im wrong) that volkan even said he was a decent lynch

Now, to me, this just looks newbie. Like he was following the crowd more.

Again in 407 you reaffirm that you believe that Spacecase is just a newb. Only this time to Vollkan you mention that SC's reversal on Kab is interesting... why wasn't it interesting when you weren't buying it in your response to Shteven?

I fail to see how my thoughts on this are relevant at all to your actions.

Damn I hate to talk before the person has answered. but this actually references a previous point. I think its newbie.

That defence being said: The hammer is damn interesting. I'm going to review this "180".

Here in post 411 you repost part of 407, apparently to affirm your belief that SC is just a harmless newbie...

And adding to my point is (correct me if im wrong) that volkan even said he was a decent lynch

Now, to me, this just looks newbie. Like he was following the crowd more.

Now here in post 431 you toss a vote onto the SC wagon solely due to the fact that Spacecase hadn't posted for 4 days...

Lynch all Lurkers. Post or Perish.

Unvote Vote Spacecase

Thats almost a week.

So, you say multiple times that you believe that SC is just a newb, but then turn around and vote him for lurking? As you've not weighed in on the rest of the case against SC (other than to dispute it) this would lead me to believe that you believe that SC is a lurking townie, right?

It's interesting to me, that early on, you disputed the evidence against SC. Once quite a few other folks were talking about SC's quick 180, however, you figured you'd hop on that wagon. The thing is, you hopped on for the sole reason of 'lurking'.... kind of a weak reason, and nothing that would bury SC further, but hey, you got on the wagon, right?

If anybody looks to be scumbuddies with SC, I'd say you're a pretty good candidate....

[-TinVision-]

Cipher replaces Jesse Gunn

.

[dahill1]

cipher after you're done reading through the thread tell us what your analysis is so far

[LaptopGun]

Dahil answered half of it to me and part of the other half to someone else, so I'm gonna hold off. Oman just pulled a thinly veiled OMGUS. This looks fascinating.

FOS Oman

[Shteven]

I do think MCD is on to something with oman, his defense of spacecase followed by joining it based on lurking is very suspect. I would of course remind everyone to make sure that spacecase is scum before we go after oman though. I hate making connections based cases before their alleged connection is of a known alignment.

[MadCrawdad]

I do think MCD is on to something with oman, his defense of spacecase followed by joining it based on lurking is very suspect. I would of course remind everyone to make sure that spacecase is scum before we go after oman though. I hate making connections based cases before their alleged connection is of a known alignment.

I don't think that Oman's status (scum v. town) is contingent upon that of Spacecase. His willingness to quickly lynch/vig seems reckless (at least). His quick reversal on Spacecase (innocent newbie -> lurking scum) makes him suspect.

The fact that Oman originally suggested that SC was just a newbie, but then quickly jumped on the wagon (with no new information having been revealed) says to me that there might be a connection between the two.

[Oman]

why wasn't it interesting when you weren't buying it in your response to Shteven?

Two reasons. Vollkan put it better, and by that time he was already lurking.

So, you say multiple times that you believe that SC is just a newb, but then turn around and vote him for lurking?

Since when can newbies not be scum? I felt the reversal was NOT a newbie scumtell, I felt lurking was.

As you've not weighed in on the rest of the case against SC (other than to dispute it) this would lead me to believe that you believe that SC is a lurking townie, right?

Look, town or scum, it doesn't really bother me. I think he is likely to be scum (like I said, newbie town doesn't lurk when under review like this), but either way, he's anti-town. Yes, I am a "lynch all lurkers" and yes if he claimed vig or something I'd unvote him.

Once quite a few other folks were talking about SC's quick 180, however, you figured you'd hop on that wagon.

But not because of what others are doing, because of my own rules.

If anybody looks to be scumbuddies with SC, I'd say you're a pretty good candidate....

I don't understand. On what is essentially a weak wagon, why would I jump on? It would be much easier, as a scumbuddy, to refute this wagon 'till death and use WIFOM to escape. I've done it before...I think.

Oman just pulled a thinly veiled OMGUS. This looks fascinating. FOS Oman

HoS LTG

I think you're scum.

That was obviously a joke. Now, I'm not OMGUSing him. I'm simply saying that last line looks like scum. The thing is, it only holds if Spacecase turns up town, so I promise you, if he comes up town, MCD gets a vote. If he comes up scum...I'll look elsewhere.

his defense of spacecase followed by joining it based on lurking is very suspect.

I'm a fan of the LAL meta.

His quick reversal on Spacecase (innocent newbie -> lurking scum) makes him suspect.

Do I have to say it again....I think I will: I only reversed my postion on him when the situation changed. I also think you should change your diagram (innocent newbie -> lurking newbie).

NEWBIES CAN BE SCUM TOO!! YOUR BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THIS THOUGHT THAT "NEWBIE" ALWAYS MEANS TOWN. NEW PEOPLE CAN BE SCUM ABOUT 1/3 OF THE TIME. RAWRRRRRR!

[Oman]

I know its ongoing, but anyone could find it.

I'm not going to make any mention of alignment except to say: I enjoy lynch all lurkers

[MadCrawdad]

NEWBIES CAN BE SCUM TOO!! YOUR BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THIS THOUGHT THAT "NEWBIE" ALWAYS MEANS TOWN. NEW PEOPLE CAN BE SCUM ABOUT 1/3 OF THE TIME. RAWRRRRRR!

Agreed that newbies can be scum... the thing is when somebody says that the newb might be scum, and you say that it just seems newbie to you, it pretty much appears that you're disagreeing with the argument (and implying that at the moment you don't see the newb's actions as scummy), wouldn't you say? Otherwise, there would be absolutely no reason to bring up the fact that the guy's a newb, as everyone can already see the 'joined date' underneath their avatar...

[Oman]

Okay look: I do not think that a newbie reversing their position is a scumtell. I do believe a newbie lurking under pressure is a scumtell. I'm not reversing my position on the first scumtell at all.

[vollkan]

While there's a good chance that Spacecase is scum, giving him a chance to defend himself is probably more prudent than just lynching him for lurking.

This looks like scumbuddies to me. Alignment based FoS: MCD

Elaborate on this please, Oman. Why does it look like scumbuddies?

[Shteven]

I do think MCD is on to something with oman, his defense of spacecase followed by joining it based on lurking is very suspect. I would of course remind everyone to make sure that spacecase is scum before we go after oman though. I hate making connections based cases before their alleged connection is of a known alignment.

I don't think that Oman's status (scum v. town) is contingent upon that of Spacecase. His willingness to quickly lynch/vig seems reckless (at least). His quick reversal on Spacecase (innocent newbie -> lurking scum) makes him suspect.

The fact that Oman originally suggested that SC was just a newbie, but then quickly jumped on the wagon (with no new information having been revealed) says to me that there might be a connection between the two.

@MadCrawdad
Granted. Most of the case would still stand if spacecase is town - the part that would be indicative of them working together would only be the earlier defense of spacecase. Which really isn't out of place on it's own, and is only troublesome after we know spacecase is certainly scum.

@Oman
As far as newbies can be scum too - certainly true. But that means you're attacking someone for being new, and the chances of them being scum are simply random (1/4 in this case, from initial setup). I'd be just as valid to single out Phate for destruction because he has a chance of being scum. I'm looking for a better-than-random lynch today. The Lynch All Lurkers is a point in your favor though Oman. I'll consider it for day 3 if we're both still here - and I'm not interested in lynching you day 2.

[Cipher]

Hi. Looks like Jesse outed me already.

Reading the thread now, will post more when I've got it.