Newbie 569: (Game Over)

[rolandgarros]

Because democracy is overrated.

I'm inclined to disagree with this, but I'm also disagreeing with vampire.
vampire, voting with the masses is not actually democracy, it is being led. If you let yourself be led in this game, you'll find you don't get very far, as eventually you just turn into a bandwagonner. Democracy is what this game is - everybody votes for who they want lynched, and the person with the most votes is lynched. So, in ths game, democracy isn't overrated, but it certainly isn't what vampire is making it out to be.
Don't vote because people tell you to, or because everyone else is - vote because you want to see the person you're voting for lynched

Nailed it CF. I was criticizing the aspect of democracy that you stated in your post: unrestricted democracy paves the way for the tyranny of the majority. Out of 3 votes on any one person, any two of them could be scum. Thus, voting based on what everyone else thinks is highly dangerous and a big mistake.

Note I have nothing against democracy, just the aspect that CF picked up on. I prefer a republic (aka representative democracy) instead, although I have no idea how this is relevant to this game, so I'll stop now.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I have already explaind this a great deal but here goes yet we have 5 townies and 2 scum, a suspicion chart is made using everyones top 3 suspects Qx comes out the top suspect. I think it a fair assumption that given the nature of town vs scum with 3 more town than scum this is a useful tool to help decide on a lynch. Call it being led or whatever you will but I see it a a good guide to the general feelings of the town. It is there for everyone to see and use as they see fit and is by no means ment to lead anyone to vote in any particular way if they dont see fit.

[bird1111]

Vote Count:
sonickid01 (1): Claus
Quitex (1): Chickenfish
rolandgarros (1): thevampireofdusseldorf
thevampireofdusseldorf (1): Quitex

Not voting (3): Battousai, sonickid01, rolandgarros

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

So if the chart is done with a scum skewing system of -6 (being the most possible (direct way) the scum could subvert the results) we still have an accurate guide. Everyone provided a list freely except sonic which I asked if he agreed with my assumption and if he wanted to make his own. Even under this system Qx comes out top suspect yet agin. Or if we use the -6 only on Qx, he comes out equal to the other two main suspects. Guys use all this stuff as you wish, I'm just trying to help the town in finding scum.

[rolandgarros]

The thing is that the chart means absolutely nothing. It is only an assessment of what people thought at that time, and as such it only represents thus. It does not directly take into account the actual scummyness of the person (i.e. scummy acts, etc.). And at the very least, the chart is only a snapshot of player opinion. Not a continuous model of scummyness.

By relying on such a chart, you are relying on what other people say and thing, or more accurately said and thought. You still do not move away from the concept of tyranny of the majority.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Tyranny of the majority favours town as town are the majority.

[rolandgarros]

Town may be the majority in number, but number isn't everything.

[Quitex]

@ Batt: I may think Cf and Sonic are very scummy, but I have my vote on Vampire. Ohhh, one moment, darling, what do we have here? Vampire think I am scum and he doesn't have the vote on me. Oh, that is weird, isn't it?

Silent Killer: I meant that he knows how to give surprises to the people that aren't awared of what's goin on, and most of those cases they end up being scums. I was not talking about a serial killer or scum. I was describing how I see hsiw ay of playing this.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Roland you seem to be debunking this chart rather vehemently,

The thing is that the chart means absolutely nothing. It is only an assessment of what people thought at that time, and as such it only represents thus. It does not directly take into account the actual scummyness of the person (i.e. scummy acts, etc.). And at the very least, the chart is only a snapshot of player opinion. Not a continuous model of scummyness.

It means nothing but you state it means something......as for not taking into account scummy acts well I find that a rather blind statement....let me put it this way what do you think would put someone at the top of anyones (townies) scum list apart from scumminess/scummy acts? I agree with you that it was a snapshot of player opinion at the time, but your other criticisms seem to be a bit baseless.

[Chickenfish]

Silent Killer: I meant that he knows how to give surprises to the people that aren't awared of what's goin on, and most of those cases they end up being scums. I was not talking about a serial killer or scum. I was describing how I see hsiw ay of playing this.

That just totally confused me.
Also vampire the problem with the chart is also that nobody would include themself, so for any 1 person, if both scum and 1 townie are after them, that will more or less make them equal 1st, unless all of the other 4 townies list the one person as their top suspect.

[rolandgarros]

It's just like an opinion poll. Its not the same as basing your opinion on scummy acts, because there is a middle man between those scummy acts and your evaluation: the player. And if every player spoke truth, thought with clear logic, or or had pro-town intentions, we'd have a reliable method here. But we don't.

I suggest a different way of finding scum. And this point is getting off topic, no use in debating the chart any further. I don't see that it works, so I won't use it. Feel free to use it if you so passionately intend to do so, but I won't take it as a credible reason of suspicion.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

As I have said about the chart there are 2 scum that could throw the results off a bit, but imo not drastically. I can make more figures to illustrate this: 2 scum has Qx top of there list: 10 points (-6) so the town had a minimum of 10 point suspicion on Qx and for what reason: percieved scumminess.
But whatever if you dont see it as helpful or useful use your own means to find scum and feel happy on lynching that scum.

[rolandgarros]

You've only got half the picture, but I'll refrain from pointing out what you're missing. In other news, will do with my own method. I'm not comfortable with relying on other people's opinions to form my own.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok stuff that chart here is my gut feelings on all of you roland unhelpful, incompatent sonic, elusive claus, illogical qx, stubborn cf........ha I cant say anything about batt apart from being slightly quiet.

Ok hope this helps town lynch scum.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Call it what you like an Opinion Poll sure but with a determined margin of error.
Roland why so anti the chart all of a sudden now after I voted for you and bought suspicion onto you, and why so vocal now I thought it was your style to sit back, but you seem to be trying to attack me and bring my methods into question.

[rolandgarros]

You forgot the second part of my strategy.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

At least im open with my methods and up front about things

but I'll refrain from pointing out what you're missing.

ok thanks rolland go back to sitting back letting us get on with it and making pointless comments and keeping out of any real danger. Im sure town will win with your great constructive help.

[rolandgarros]

You criticize me getting involved and then say you want me to help out. I'm guessing pointing out the flaws in your method isn't helping out? Well, of course it isn't helping

you

out, but that was hardly ever my intention.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Your intention please?

[rolandgarros]

Think for yourself.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Town needs to work as a co-operative whole to catch scum, so sorry if trying to implament this aim does not suit your style of play or alignment.
Obviously you are trying to subvert this aim with your recent posts be it for your own reasons "I dont like to play that way I have my own way/style" or for you & your scum partners sake.

[rolandgarros]

Actually my last post was quite helpful.

Double entendre

, anyone?

[Chickenfish]

I'm with vampire here on you being VERY unhelpful roland... it's just plain frustrating

[Quitex]

omg o_O that many posts in so little time, let me re read and them post my brutal thoughts about y'all

[rolandgarros]

I'm sorry if you see things that way, but I believe I am being quite helpful to the town. Just bear with me CF, I am not finished with vampire yet. Once I feel like I am finished, if you desire an explanation of my motive, I will explain every single thing. For now, however, let me finish my work on vampire. And by finish, I do not mean lynching; that is quite far from my intention. If I were scum, there would be much easier ways of taking out vamp, not that that is my intention at all in this case.

And please, do think for yourself. I don't think that was clear in my

double entendre

.