Newbie 569: (Game Over)

[rolandgarros]

Well explaining back then would have ruined the effect/intent of my gambit. I figured that you guys would want to know

eventually

why I was so cryptic o_O

[bird1111]

You string up Quitex, and then check his house. You find he was a Cop.

Quitex, Cop lynched day 1. Night 1 begins, choices due Friday @ 8:55 PM EDT.

[rolandgarros]

Ermm he was a what?

I posted before checking what role he had.

[bird1111]

You wake up to find Claus missing, fearing the worst, you check his house. He is indeed dead, and was a townie.

Claus, Townie, killed Night 1.

Day 2 begins. With 5 alive it will take 3 to lynch.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Lylo it is so in case anyone is not sure dont place a vote unless very certain someones is scum.
Now that said dang this sucks lynching the cop......batt said I do belive Qx could be cop way back when, but as far as I can see qx was not the greatest at defending himself.
Ok I put the hammer down but can anyone blame me, ha yes im sure and I'm now happy to say my suspicion chart was almost totaly useless (at least in trying to help lynch scum). Perhaps I should have given Qx time to claim but I dropped enough hints about claiming that I thought there were no power roles on the line.

So lets see if we can win this town.

My biggest gut read tells me sonic is scum: most likely cf as his partner, no full read through yet with evidence as it is too late.
Will post more soon.

[Claus]

Ouch. That hurt. Go town.

[Quitex]

Mhm... go town... *brain melt*

[sonickid01]

Perhaps I should have given Qx time to claim but I dropped enough hints about claiming that I thought there were no power roles on the line.

OK, I said I would start being more aggressive, so...

"Perhaps?" We now lack our only power role... I had a wierd sense that Qx was cop. We're now looking at LyLo, and are disadvantaged by a lack of any sort of firm info from the cop.

Vampire, you hammered someone who had voted you. Seems a little scummy to me.

FoS: Vampireofdusseldorf

What exactly led you to believe that Qx did not have a power role?

Next post; I was typing that list of thoughts on all those posts, and then just got finished and noticed that Vampire had hammered and it was night, so I held on to it to post it the beginning of Day 2. All of the thoughts in the following post are from BEFORE the hammer.

[sonickid01]

#221- Vampire
I don't think that the ICs are supposed to simply tell us the answer. I know you don't think that, but it sounded to me like you were very demanding. However, it doesn't really matter.

#225- Vampire
Quote:
Honestly if I had a no vote cast and anyone was at 3 votes then I would hammer just to get to day two.

0_0; A little scary. It sounds to me that you are simply looking for a bit of blood and getting impatient. Although you say that it was scumbait, I don't quite think it was. I doubt that you would have covered that statement so soon after saying it. You could have waited to see what happens. Sounds more like a cover-up to me. Little suspicious in my eyes... But meh, I'll see.

#231- Quitex
I really sense a bunch of hatred from you. You seem really argumentative. That last bit of extreme sarcasm seems a little... odd to me. It seems irrelevant, only an opportunity to express anger. It's almost like you are trying to get whatever you can to "get back at" those who disagree with you. While I'm not yet saying I'm against you or for the other side, I don't think that that is needed. I think it could be just an attempt to make yourself seem less scummy by using anger and trying to make yourself look as pro-town as possible by being stubborn and bitter. However, I'm not sure on that one. That's not a big scumtell, but I'm shifty.

#238- Vampire
A little brash. Unless this is more of your scumbait?

#240- Vampire
I agree with QX's statement (statement, not saying I do or don't agree with his logic), contrary to what you believe. It is very possible that the scums will act as scum to appear pro-towny. That is how they would play it smart, by disguising themselves, correct? Otherwise, unless they've got some other strategy, they're stupid scum, right? I don't believe that what you said in this post is scummy here.

#253- Vampire
Good point. So the chart is basically +/- 6 at most, because scum could skew it like that. However, Roland is right a post afterword. That's not a probability of anything at all. It's people's personal opinions, and (1) there's the scum skewing, and (2) humans are human, they are wrong quite often.

#257- Quitex
So if you're so confident of me and Cf as a scumpair, then why the vote on Vampire? Then IMMEDIATELY after, you point out Vampire on the same thing. You're trying to point out his fault and what you've done well, but I find it hard to follow. It's a little hypocritical. Also, please provide an example of Roland's style if you may or something.

Bunch of later posts, I think are just pointless arguments.

#274- Roland
Part of me wants to wait to see your motives, but hiding stuff like motives is a bit shady in my opinion. It's a chance I'm not willing to take. Hiding stuff from everyone, yes, keeps the scum from knowing your motives, but the town is kept in the dark too. It only leads me to be suspicious of your reasoning. I could easily mislynch and say that it was for future planning, I'll explain at the next bridge. I'd really like to be a fun-spoiler and ask what the motives were.

5 next posts: what? Doesn't really means anything. All you're doing is just insulting Vampire. It's the whole insult thing again that hapened with CF. I would honestly have to say that you're stooping down low a bit. Then Roland makes an entirely useless point as a comeback. :^P

#280- Quitex
I don't quite know what FoI is. Is it Finger of Innocence? If so, why? Because an IC does his job doesn't mean that he is a townie necessarily. Would you agree?

#282- Roland
Reminds me of Chickenfish's earlier posts.

#290- Quitex
I don't see exactly how Vampire was scumhiding. he may not have been right but I don't think that he was exactly scumhiding.

#298-299
More insulting. Why is it getting so angry here?

#309- CF
I'd have to say I agree with you at this point. That was so many posts, and most was not helpful. Roland and Vampire have been arguing in what I see is a very similar way as to how Quitex and CF have- not extremely helpful. I've seen not a whole lot of info except that for all practical purposes Roland and Vampire basically hate each other now. :^P Roland's been very adamant all of the sudden now on teaching Vampire a lesson. Honestly, it's not doing much. While you're an IC, I think it'd be best if you backed off, Rolandgarros. Obviously he's not going to learn, being this stubborn.

#323- Roland
That seems more like it. However, I'm not entirely sure.

---

Alright, so I think I'm mostly suspicious of Vampire now more than anything. Earlier, I believed he was playing very well for a newb. Now he seems to have declined in his playing, possibly from becoming desperate? I dunno. My guess- he and Roland pulled an excellent disguise as scumpartners. Roland may have been trying to, as the IC, teach his newb scumpartner something. Then they pulled an incredibly gambit (that's not the word I'm looking for, but I can't think of what it is right now).

*****************************

Like I said, that's just my thoughts before Vampire hammered.

[Battousai]

Vamp: Whatever happened to your adament suspicion of Roland being scum? You said he was scum with QX. Just because QX turned up cop, doesn't mean Roland isn't scum. So what did sonic, cf, or Roland do (or not do) to make you think Roland is no longer scum?

Concerning Night/ End of Day 1
--------------------------------------

Vamp, you could have said, QX claim before I hammer you and he would have claimed cop. Then we could have lynched someone else, who could have been scum. Then the next day we would know if QX was the cop or not and if he wasn't we could still be in Lylo, but we would know who the scum is.

Claus: Wasn't directly in any recent "scuffles" or acting pretty scummy, so my guess would be he was killed to keep suspicion on roland, vamp, sonic, and/or cf.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Wow sonic has come to the party.......albeit a little late. I am very impressed by your speculations about me and roland (if only it were true, I would be proud of that).

Vampire, you hammered someone who had voted you. Seems a little scummy to me. FoS: Vampireofdusseldorf

What exactly led you to believe that Qx did not have a power role?

I had made my intetions clear:

"Qx more than sonic so I dont mind a lynch on Qx,"

"I have a good feeling we can lynch Qx today but I wanted to try and get some more reactions and thoughts about who he would be partnered with."

And three mentions about power roles the most by anybody & all in the time when Qx was top lynch candidate and even while at L-1

"Also no one has decided to make a claim perhaps due to there being no power roles amoung these 3 and also at least one of them being scum."

"Well we might be lunching you Qx but you are on L-1 now and still no claim........"

"I was being rather honest in that last post but with this set up if we lynch wrong day one we are in lylo, we have one power role and what are the chances of the cop surviving lynch and nk to get us an investigation of guilty let alone innocent."

Like I said, that's just my thoughts before Vampire hammered.

Again as with roland I would like to mention post event posting (especialy after a lynch) is highly dunious, In this case I am inclined to believe that this was mostly true and done before night but at the same time if you are scum you can slip in whatever you like knowing it will be read in a new context than the one you had intentioned it to be seen in.

I had a wierd sense that Qx was cop

Was it just a sense or were there things that Qx did or said which gave you suspicion of him being cop.

Well at least we have a lot of post from everyone to go back and look on.

And roland if you would care to be a helpful IC and give a great day 2 as Qx said you did could you please answer a question for my scumhunting benifit.

Given that we now have solid facts (claus and qx are town) and I can couple that with the fact I know I'm town, the only people to know this yesterday were mafia, so when reading back over day one should I use these facts and look at peoples post in regard to these players and see if anything looks as if they knew these facts?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Vamp: Whatever happened to your adament suspicion of Roland being scum? You said he was scum with QX. Just because QX turned up cop, doesn't mean Roland isn't scum.

Today is a new day and will take some readjustments due to new facts coming to light. Well a big part of my case for roland was to to with Qx being scum but alas he was not so other reasons for roland being scum have to be looked at of which I will do.

Bat your comment on claus not being in any scuffles and not being seen as scummy I find very odd as you were in less scuffles and under even less suspicion than claus, so I kinda see your coment as self implication as scum.

Now Qx as cop I think I explained my dropping hints to Qx to claim, I didn't belive Qx to be cop as I thought they liked to keep a low profile and Qx certainly didn't suceed at that especial with the L-1ing claus.

When I have a decent amout of spare time I will do a full read through and post my thoughts on all players.

Fixed a tag.

[bird1111]

Leaving tomorrow for about a week. Mr. Flay will hopefully be taking over during my absence.

[Battousai]

Well honestly QX, I don't know what the scum were thinking and planning. So the only reason I see to kill Claus as scum would probably be the same reason they could have killed me last night. Maybe they want me around, because they believe they could get me to vote their way easier than Claus. I wouldn't be surprised if I were killed tonight when we lynch a scum. But because I said that, I also wouldn't be surprised if I were still alive for a WIFOM type of thing.

I would suggest everyone do a Player Analyst on everyone soon, and we can go from there. I will also post one later when I have more time to go over the days, (probably tomorrow).

If Mr. Flay doesn't mod, I'll mod for ya. Just send me the names and roles of everyone

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Sure bat....I do intend to do a full read through soon but it will be rather time consuming if I wish to do a good job of it so expect it sometime soon.

[rolandgarros]

vote: sonick

FOS: Batt

Right now I'm more or less inclined to think that Vampire is not scum. If he was, I think he would have broken down or at least have been more annoyed and uncomfortable than he seemed to be after my mysterious actions.

The reason I voted for sonick is because I still do not like the way he's carrying himself this game; his "I had a weird feeling that QX was cop" post really stands out and seems like a poor attempt to make himself look more pro-town than he really is. Not to mention the only person that really didn't like sonick was Claus, and who was killed last night?

My FOS on Batt is purely gut feeling; it should probably be more of an IGMEOY but Batt seems to be quite sneaky as a possible scum. Nonetheless, this is only slight suspicion.

I'll refrain from commenting on CF until later.

[Chickenfish]

Wow.... I REALLY don't know what to do...
With my main suspects gone (although as the day went on I was much less suspicious of Claus), I don't really have any idea. I got the impression that vampire was trying too hard with a lot of his stuff, but not to the extent where I'd lynch him...
I just don't know

FoS: roland

for voting in lylo

[rolandgarros]

Ahh good point CF forgot that we only had 5 people left.

unvote:sonick

MFHOS: sonick

Sorry about that, just came back from retreat.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

ROLAND dont get sloppy I thought you gave a grat day two and if you were wrong and scum hammered then that would have been game over!

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Sonic: 'V"""V' & ChickenFish 'V"""V'

Qx put claus at L-1 to prove sonic and cf scum for 24 hours and scenario 3 did in fact happen
SCENARIO 3.Nothing happens. This may be due to:
a) Both scums are already attacking him
b) Claus is scum (now imortalized in death as town)
c) The scums are -very- intelligent and wont hammer... right away.

Now I find sonics and cf reactions to this very interesting knowing now Qx and Claus are town:

Great move, Quitex. Me and Chicken voting for the same person does sorta point to a possibility of scuminess. However, my only reasoning for voting Claus was to get a bit of info, nothing more than that. I put him at L-1 with that because I knew there wouldn't be a lynch this early like I said earlier, unless there was a hammer of mafia. Chicken, on the other hand, was voting for an actual reason. If we were both the scumpair, we wouldn't vote the same person this early- it'd give ourselves away.

If I were to think of a scumpair possibility, it'd be Claus and Vampire. Vampire "randomvoted" Claus. Perhaps to draw suspicion away from the possibility since random votes mean nothing. Then I vote for Claus, and he unvotes, but keeps an FoS on him to make it look unsuspicious.

nice move by sonic to debunk this theory of Qxs by trying to say claus is scum (lies) and I am his partner (also lies I am town), hmm funny as I was in the last vote with claus at L-1.
The "we wouldn't vote the same person it would give ourselves away is pure WIFOM" but later sonic ask what WIFOM is.

I'm sorry Quitex but your analysis is way off. Absolutely NOBODY would hammer, especially now that you have included all that analysis saying 'anyone who hammers is scum'. Even if you hadn't included that, of course scum wouldn't vote, it's just plain dumb. Also, if Claus is lynched scum, it's quite likely his partner DOES have a vote on him, as to not seem protective of him. I actually believe that now that you can vote him without lynching, you have done that to both look town, and to distance yourself if he does turn up scum. I also like how you've said 'oh and if you guys vote me you must be scum as well'. You've pretty much covered all bases, and your post has convinced me that you and Claus are partners.
I ask everyone to reread Quitex's faulty logic from the point of view of him and Claus being partners, and see how much sense it makes. I really, really think Claus and/or Quitex need to be lynched today.

Wow both townies CF picks as a scum team with huge conviction after being "proved" scum by Qx.

My common sense tells me that a lynch this quick points out immediately one out of two scum. So even if Claus did end up lynched, we already have one mafia pointed out directly. Although that's one IC gone, there's another one still there.

Sonic seems happy to have an IC (claus) lynched because he claims it would point out one of two scum, (this after just saying he believed me and claus to be scum)........wait this implies sonic either believes or knows claus to be town. I think this is enough to lynch sonic today!

So in the situation of L-1 roland or bat could have placed a hammer vote on claus which would have led to lylo, if either or both were scum would they have done that well I'm sure they would have considered it as it is the best situation for scum......cf states it as fact that scum wouldn't hammer but I wouldn't be so sure.
Sonic has also tried to throw suspicion on CF (the most out of anyone he has tried to) with two FoS's and other coments which are kinda strange:

I guess that I'm not extremely sure of Chicken, but he does seem (it's not really a joke this time, ) a bit fishy. FOMS: Chickenfish[/b]

Like I said before, my suspicion's more to Chickenfish than anyone but not very heavily. Your Potatoes = L-1 argument sort of makes sense and sort of doesn't. L-1 is a very good reason to suspect someone depending on circumstance. L-1 is not entirely random like potatoes, however. :^P (I don't like that automatic smiley. XD *shot*) However, I was just trying to get info.

I believe there's a scumminess in Chickenfish. He acted in a bit of a strange way to Claus's jumbled posts comment. I don't think that he could've accidentally interpreted as the comment being directed toward his spelling/grammar. He seemed like he was trying to avoid the subject of his possible scumminess, very suspicious.
FoS: Chickenfish

Chickenfish: I'm not trying to "buddy up" with Claus when I say this, but yeah, you're a bit hotheaded as of late. Why such a big argument over the context of OMGUS? He seems really hung up on it but meh. However, some of his points against Quitex, I have found valid, although the comments like "reality check" seem to be a bit unnecessary and irrelevant in my opinion.

CF was the only one to really defend sonics L-1 move"

This post is pretty much entirely wrong, except for the boled bit, which actually contradicts the rest of your argument.
L-1 is perfectly acceptable this early, because the only person who would hammer is scum, so they would have to reveal themselves to do so, and as such would actually help the town. also, with Claus being L-2, if the mafia BOTH hammered, then they have once again revealed themselves except it is totally game over, so that would never happen either. That was possibly the least logical post I could imagine.

Once again, the bolding is exactly WHY L-1 isn't as dangerous as you make it out to be, and it's a good way to put people under pressure. I was at L-1 from page 3 until page 9 or so in the game I just played, and there was still one mafia around who didn't vote for me. There were also a few first-timers as well, and they knew it was the wrong thing to do to lynch me, so they didn't.
I'm not particularly agreeing with the L-1, but I'm certainly not DISagreeing with it as strongly as Batt was. Also FoS: Batt

@Chickenfish you might have another explanation beyond these two but if you had to choose (and I assume you would go with b) I would like to ask you why you think sonic is town.

I don't particularly think sonic is town, but I'm not gonna jump up and say 'he L-1ed someone, he must be scum!'. If I was to say "I like potatoes", and someone replied "He likes potatoes, he must be scum!", you wouldn't neccesarily have to believe I was town to tell them their logic is faulty would you?

Yes, but you also have to take into account the fact that saying 'he's not scum for that' is not nearly the equivalent to saying 'he's town'

So I was just trying to point out that saying sonic's act wasn't entirely scummy, that doesn't follow on to I think sonic's town. While it can seem like a scummy act from sonic, I don't think it's nearly as big a deal as Battousai was making out in post 50.

There is a whole lot more but im getting tired and I think this stuff is worth its weight in gold: Now Im very happy to put that vote on sonic now as he is scum there will be no quicklynch.

vote:sonickid01

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ah perhaps you might say I am scum but I'm only asking roland and bat to look back over the thread and especialy at how sonic has played and how sonic and cf reacted to the L-1ing of claus both times.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Ok a quick change of mind/heart here as I was a little hasty last time ha and It can't hurt to wait.

unvote:sonickid01

I have seen one slight problem with my whole case but I can't mention that yet perhaps later.

[Mr. Flay]

Leaving tomorrow for about a week. Mr. Flay will hopefully be taking over during my absence.

Indeed (just getting this on my topic list).

[Battousai]

sonickik01 wrote:
My common sense tells me that a lynch this quick points out immediately one out of two scum. So even if Claus did end up lynched, we already have one mafia pointed out directly. Although that's one IC gone, there's another one still there.

Sonic seems happy to have an IC (claus) lynched because he claims it would

point out one of two scum

, (this after just saying he believed me and

claus to be scum

)........wait this implies sonic either believes or knows claus to be town. I think this is enough to lynch sonic today!

Vamps 344: Now I don't understand this (haven't reread the day yet so it is out of context). How do you get sonic believes or knows claus to be town, when he said claus was scum, and if claus was lynched we would know one scum?

I will reread the day now that I have time.

[Battousai]

The first person I looked at was roland, due to his recent posts.

Roland:
220

I'm here what do you want me to say o_O

Well, scumhunting would not be a bad idea.

222 (4 days since last post)

Oh well I'm letting you newbs play it out and I'll only step in when absolutely necessary. However, if you want a comment on this last page then I'll do so; I haven't really followed the thread since my last post.

Letting the newbs play it out? I know your an IC and you are trying to get the noobs to learn the ropes, but doing nothing, you might as well not even be in the game. Plus you weren't away for 4 days, but you said you were just not following the game for 4 days. What if there was a problem, would you be able to help with it?

Vampire wrote:
Ha in fact I want to lynch all three of you and also the other three as well but I guess that would make me a serial killer which would be a lot more fun than silly town. I am realy not sure of anyones towniness in this game except mine. You all look like filty swine fondling dirtbags to me........and I realy cant decide on who is the scumiest of them all.

I didn't really see a need for posting that, and based upon your general pro-town feel earlier, this is quite non sequitur; I would like to inquire upon your intentions in posting this.

I found nothing wrong with this post. Yes it didn't help with the game, but it didn't hurt it. I believe you have made posts that did the same thing. Plus you didn't take into account the previous post (around 7 minutes delay from the quoted vamp post)

VAMP: Everyones, I feel that this is a decent democratic way of doing things as there are 5 townies and you came up the dirtiest from everyone. Of course the two scum that could warp the results a bit but I dont think too much.

I don't see how this logic is invalid.

There are two ways of playing scum in my opinion

:

laying low and letting the town lynch themselves

, or saying a lot (to the point of posting every other post), in an attempt to see pro-town. Make your own judgment from this.

And yes, I realize that I'm more or less playing the former

, but that's my style of play, so make whatever judgments you will.

This is just something I caught, NOT a real reason for scumminess, its just nit-picking, but interpret as you will the bolded parts. He's saying he's playing scum by laying low.

I'm sorry if you see things that way, but I believe I am being quite helpful to the town. Just bear with me CF, I am not finished with vampire yet. Once I feel like I am finished, if you desire an explanation of my motive, I will explain every single thing. For now, however, let me finish my work on vampire. And by finish, I do not mean lynching; that is quite far from my intention. If I were scum, there would be much easier ways of taking out vamp, not that that is my intention at all in this case.

the meantime, before I leave for three days until Friday, I would like to explain my series of cryptic posts. Basically, I was just making vampire uncomfortable and seeing how he would react. There are some points where he didn't react the best but I felt that he handled the situation satisfactorily. While I was unable to post a few days earlier, I noticed that Vampire was taking control of the town and moving the game along, maybe too much. I felt that the best way to test him was to make him uncomfortable, and I think he did okay, although not brilliantly.

I don't see the merits of this gambit, could you explain them? What if he didn't react satisfactory, what would that tell you and what would be unsatisfactory?

VAMP:

I am thinking entirely for myself while trying to help and contribute to the town, I am picking on roland for his style as I see it more scum style than anything else and his recent post have reinforced this. I resent what you accuse me of Qx

Quitex wrote:
I hope you may understand that newbie games are for learning to play the game, not learning how we can manipulate others to play for us which is obviously what you're trying to do with Roland.

I think roland is scum and I dont care what he does in his game style as I wish to try and expose his scumminess not try and make him play for us.

Roland response:

I don't have enough fingers to count the fallacies in that last post.

What was wrong with the above post by Vamp?

Well that was a little faster than expected.. I come home to find Claus' uber post and a lynch on Quitex already... We'll just have to wait and see what QX really was, although I was not ready on lynching him for being stupid. I don't see that as a valid reason to vote, but we'll see what happens.

posts after lynch= scummy. You were distancing yourself from the lynch. That points to scum in my book.

Then today you voted. A vote, if both scum were on at same time and you or sonic were not scum, could have resulted in end game. Then you backtrack saying it was a mistake.






Well, that's all the time I have right now, I'll post sonic's another player anaylst later along with hopefully more players.