Mini #111: Sonic Heroes Mafia (The fighting's over...)

MMCL · Post Post #385 (isolation #0) » Thu Jul 29, 2004 7:44 am

Hi guys, I'm replacing someone... I'm not quite sure what is going on so I don't have much to add but I will read through and let you know in the next few hours ok

MMCL · Post Post #389 (isolation #1) » Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:59 am

right.. I'm having a bit of trouble making sense of things... can someone paraphrase the last 16 pages for me?

MMCL · Post Post #396 (isolation #2) » Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:36 am

I hate saying this... I believe Cam too

LOL....

MMCL · Post Post #403 (isolation #3) » Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:40 am

I have had a think about it all...

Vote: Yoko

MMCL · Post Post #406 (isolation #4) » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:35 am

Hmmm... That's not right... According to this website...

http://www.toughteam.com/uk.html

(You may have to go to teamplay - chaotix)

The character you said is you, is "Charmy Bee"....

FOS: Araltaln

MMCL · Post Post #407 (isolation #5) » Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:39 am

MY apologies... I relooked at your screenshot and I see you mean the character in the far-right hand corner...

http://www.sonic-gif.com/gop-omo.htm

Anyone speak french?

I take my FOS back.

MMCL · Post Post #416 (isolation #6) » Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:10 am

Well it should be simple then - lynch one and we know the truth about them both.

MMCL · Post Post #421 (isolation #7) » Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:47 am

Not much too add... I would favour keeping mathcam for now and testing somehow...

MMCL · Post Post #437 (isolation #8) » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:13 am

OK - Im very confused now... I will wait for cam's results before adding my own analysis...

MMCL · Post Post #440 (isolation #9) » Sat Aug 07, 2004 9:34 pm

cam - your post confuses me. explain please...

MMCL · Post Post #443 (isolation #10) » Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:12 am

That'll be it...

MMCL · Post Post #447 (isolation #11) » Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:12 am

3 points to make...

1) I'm confused that mathcam would make a mistake like that... I've seen newbies do it - but mathcam?? To me it seems that mathcam has "Im a cop, cop, cop, cop, cop, cop, cop" running through his head (trying to convince himself!) and suddenly as he is typing, he types it when he means Doc. A slip of the tongue..? but not likely given mathcam's experience. Something doesn't sit right...

2) I don't know how to answer the charge against me - and I know the "I don't know why dragonmaster said that" thing is weaker than weak. All I know is I can roleblock once per night.
I was told my first choice didn't go through because that allowed me to escape capture - I presume I roleblocked Dr Eggman and that let me go.
I must admit I have only skimmed most of the 18-pages (hence my over-riding confusion) but I am willing to provide proof of my blocking if needed.

I won't reveal who I blocked - but I want to hear more from mathcam.

MMCL · Post Post #448 (isolation #12) » Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:15 am

oops - missed point 3...

*ahem*

3) Isn't Dr Eggman a robot? He always flies about in that little robot egg machine thingy...

MMCL · Post Post #456 (isolation #13) » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:03 am

I agree Jolle - It's how I feel currently.

I cant really answer the charges against me until I have got a PM back from the mod to ask about the blocks that the previous player did each night.

More as I know it...

MMCL · Post Post #457 (isolation #14) » Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:03 am

I agree Jolle - It's how I feel currently.

I cant really answer the charges against me until I have got a PM back from the mod to ask about the blocks that the previous player did each night.

More as I know it...

MMCL · Post Post #469 (isolation #15) » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:26 am

I'm still waiting on the details of dragonmasters choices... however I agree that the remaining players should claim names.

MMCL · Post Post #483 (isolation #16) » Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:15 am

Sorry I haven't added much guys - Im still waiting for Norinel.

However Araltaln's summary is quite useful... however I think there may be some interesting things to note from the list. How do we know that sonic and Big aren't in the game?

Have I missed something? Replacing Sonic with Metal Sonic and putting Big in the game, could the setup be this:

Sonic aka Metal Sonic - mlaker = SCUM godfather
Tails - Mojo, one shot doc.
Knuckles - PBuG, unprotector (one shot vig).

Amy - Fletcher, partial kill immunity.
Cream - MMCL, roleblocker.
Big - araltaln = SCUM

Shadow - Spork, one shot? extra night action granter = SCUM
Rouge - Mathcam, alignment cop.
Omega - Sycko, vig.

Espio - jadesmar, two shot self protect
Charmy - Jolle, team cop.
Vector - Nanook, role name spy = SCUM

See how this setup allows for all the information given so far to be correct, yet the symmetry of one scum member per team is perfect... it means that araltaln is lying.

I want to hear from araltaln, and from spork - as that is where my suspicions lie currently (although I still think that mathcam was VERY lucky!) I have always been confused by the claim of omochao...

Vote: Araltaln

MMCL · Post Post #486 (isolation #17) » Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:22 am

NO - that is not the case araltaln... Four scum is entirely possible - especially given roleblockers, docs, vigilantes on the side of the town.

My blocking so far (pieced together from what I know - but still unconfirmed..):

Mojo - night one
dragonmaster missed the deadline - night two
Yoko - night three **
I chose not to block last night - although I wanted to block mathcam - better judgement told me not to. **

(** are confirmed).

MMCL · Post Post #488 (isolation #18) » Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:09 pm

He said he did... but thats why I voted him as soon after he posted his choices.

MMCL · Post Post #491 (isolation #19) » Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:50 am

*waits for PM*

MMCL · Post Post #492 (isolation #20) » Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:50 am

Thanks MOD - I can confirm the choices (or lack of) that dragonmaster made.

MMCL · Post Post #496 (isolation #21) » Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:21 am

I think you are wrong - and I do firmly believe that there could be a 4-person scum group in a 12-player game.

Maybe it started as a three-person group and they found and recruited someone - I have seen that many times, or if it started as a four-person group. On average scum represent 1/3 of the town.... 1/3 of 12 is 4. How many games have you played where there have been a scum group of 3 and an SK, or two scum groups of 2...? Where's the difference if you have a scum group of 4 and give the town extra abilities to ensure it is balanced?

What I have tried to do is fit the available evidence into a setup that would/could be considered symmetrical. And 4 teams of 3 characters, with one member of each team being scum would fit this. In that case - I see you and spork as scum candidates.

However, while your actions do correspond to being a roleblocker and having blocked Yoko, they also correspond to a scum buddy knowing the jig's up

They correspond because that's what they are - a town roleblocker. I have made a few bad decisions but that is because I came into this game so late, and I have dragonmaster's legacy on my shoulders...

MMCL · Post Post #497 (isolation #22) » Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:25 am

...Sorry for double post...

I notice since I posted my list that Spork has said nothing of it. I'm inclined to take my vote of you araltaln and put it onto Spork because he seems to be quite happy watching you and I argue about it.

Also he now seems to be favour No-Lynch - which is a bizarre thing to suggest given the current circumstance..!

MMCL · Post Post #499 (isolation #23) » Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:20 am

UNVOTE

and

VOTE: SPORK76

and yes my powers can overide a roleblock or protect if the person chosen is being roleblocked

His "powers" were used night 2, he claims- yet he still talks about them in the present tense, using "can" and not could - I think there is something we aren't being told. Combine that with advocating no-lynch, when we are so damn close... and I think we have a scumbag.

MMCL · Post Post #501 (isolation #24) » Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:41 am

I agree Jolle - however given the fact that most of Norinel's previous games have had a beautiful kind of symmetry to them, I would carry that logic through to this game.

Come on guys, get remotivated... please

MMCL · Post Post #504 (isolation #25) » Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:17 am

Mathcam,

Prosaic mainly (eg the inclusion of certain roles, planning of PM messages etc) and his thoughts as the game developed, reading the after game discussion) - but also in conversations I have had elsewhere (AIM chat) with Norinel concerning setups etc.. (Norinel checked my setup for B5, for example).

Obviously I can't prove this as the discussion includes roles and specifics for that game.. however - I am one of the few people to use Norinel's excellent vote counter (SHAMELESS PLUG - see N52) - so I guess you can take it that I mustve got that link somehow!?

I would echo your question to Spork...

MMCL · Post Post #506 (isolation #26) » Mon Aug 16, 2004 8:27 am

Spork - are you still with us?

MMCL · Post Post #508 (isolation #27) » Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:59 am

So can anyone tell me where we are now... and Mod - can we have a votecount please

MMCL · Post Post #513 (isolation #28) » Mon Aug 16, 2004 9:53 pm

Mathcam, I saw the mod had just posted and so posted in thread to indicate that I was waiting for a reply. Once I clicked submit, the post had gone through and the 'one new message' thing at the top of the page was indicated and changed.

I clicked on the link and saw it was from Norinel.... I read it and quickly came back and then posted my thanks (if I was able to delete the first post or edit it - I would have). This happened in the space of a minute because Norinel's reply was basically confirming my post 486 (eg I can confirm that you blocked as in accordance with your post 486).

Hence my reply was: "I can confirm the choices (or lack of) that dragonmaster made. "

MMCL · Post Post #515 (isolation #29) » Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:41 am

I can't really answer that but to say I can see where it would be doubted... however... I had a one line reply... and I tend to use the 'open in a new browser right click' ... so it doesn't take long to read and get back to the thread.

(Also - I didnt want Norinel to think I was hassling him

)

This is getting a bit silly, I am pro-town, but I am feeling the need to keep defending myself.

MMCL · Post Post #517 (isolation #30) » Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:56 pm

Voting to put the pressure on:

Vote: Spork

MMCL · Post Post #518 (isolation #31) » Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:06 pm

OK - I am already voting for Spork...

*bangs head*

*walks off whistling*

MMCL · Post Post #524 (isolation #32) » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:45 pm

Now - there's a change.

Also, we /could not have had/ a mafia of size 4 to begin with, we'd have had a lynch-or-lose situation on /day one/. Your entire post is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

So I get voted for it.... then you have now decided (once mathcam partly agrees with my statements about 4 scum) that it could be:

Jolle and MMCL - and you are worried about it.
Mathcam and ? - so you need to lynch the ? first.
Sycko as an SK - unlikely in your opinion.

I have to say that's a dramatic change in thinking - or perhaps it is because you are just going along with someone who is known pro-town (mathcam).. sounds like you are currying favour with mathcam.

FOS: Araltaln

MMCL · Post Post #526 (isolation #33) » Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:57 pm

So now you accuse me of being stupid... nice ...

UNVOTE

and

Vote: Araltaln

for his flawed logic.

MMCL · Post Post #528 (isolation #34) » Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:09 am

Perhaps it should be me that should be typing slowly...

Here's what you posted:

1) You think it is unlikely that we started with a 4-person group to begin with.
2) If mathcam is scum, then someone must be scum with him
3) If there is one mafia left - then we must have had 4 to begin with.

So you either think there is 1 SK left - which the number of kills each night does not indicate - or that there are 4 scum left.

Hence you argument to me earlier about starting with 4 scum being 'ridiculous' wasn't so... you changed your mind when mathcam said it was a possibility... At the moment Im thinking it's you and spork.

Confirm Vote: Araltaln

- I was voting you earlier, I changed to Spork to put pressure on and now Im sure it is you.

MMCL · Post Post #529 (isolation #35) » Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:18 am

(sorry for the double post)

Also - having looked back - who is it that is voting me currently? Spork and Araltaln... interesting. Spork has deliberately avoided the question put to him and they are going after me - because of the remaining players I am the easiest target.

MMCL · Post Post #531 (isolation #36) » Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:23 am

Making sense is a good thing... try doing it

Abbreviations? I see none. You aren't getting in trouble - you are proving yourself to be scummy.

MMCL · Post Post #533 (isolation #37) » Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:26 am

But your statements say nothing and mean nothing. You don't think Mathcam is scum, but if he is then he is with one other and that would mean there are 4 scum in total. We have established that.

However the statement I have the most problem with (and I admit I didnt explain it well enough - I put 'that there are 4 scum left' when I meant '2 scum left') is "If there is at least one other mafia left, we had a 4-person mafia to begin with."

FACT ONE: The game is not over.
FACT TWO: There must be scum left.
FACT THREE: We have caught 2 scum so far

YOUR STATEMENT: "If there is at least one other mafia left, we had a 4-person mafia to begin with."

FACT FOUR: 2 + 1 = 3

Therefore - from your statements - there is either an SK left as well as one more mafia, or there is 2 mafia left. SK doesn't fit due to not enough kills per night on previous nights. So you must be saying that there are 2 mafia left.

You then go on to suggest it is Jolle and Me, or Mathcam and one other (me presumably because you are voting me). The person you don't suggest is Spork. Who is my other prime candidate.

You are either desperately trying to confuse things or thinking on your feet and making mistakes...
It seems like flawed arguments to me and hypocritical given the fact that you called me ridiculous for suggesting 4 scum earlier.

Also...The use of 'etc' like the use of the word 'and', is for many people, misunderstood. Both 'etc' and 'and' are shortenings, true, but they are not standard abbreviations in the English language because both shortenings actually stand for a letter not a word - hence they are not true abbreviations. 'etc' is a shortening of et cetera from the latin 'and so forth' (often appearing as one symbol in books pre-1960) which is the way it should be written, and 'and' is a shortening of ampersand, from the french 'and by itself and' - when 'and' was a 27th letter of our alphabet... its a common mistake.

MMCL · Post Post #536 (isolation #38) » Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:03 am

But you didn't say that... when you corrected yourself and bolded you DID.... I think you realised your mistake and are now trying to cover it up.

The possibility of 4 scum, whether all in one group or not, is one we should still consider.

MMCL · Post Post #538 (isolation #39) » Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:12 pm

Anyhoo...

I've seen Spork online several times in the past day... and he has not once posted in this thread. I am beginning to think he is avoiding answering the question put to him. Like Nanook was a mafia-spy, is it possible that Spork is a mafia-doubler...?

MMCL · Post Post #545 (isolation #40) » Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:20 am

Mathcam, I was very confused by the statement araltaln made. Even in context it made little sense - with the correction it makes more sense, but I can't but help think it is a mistake on his part.

I am not throwing accusations around - There are two people I think are scummy - Spork and Araltaln, and my vote has moved between the two...

However - I have moved on (as signified by my last post). And I am not happy with Spork's answer to the question. Spork, I think we need more.

MMCL · Post Post #549 (isolation #41) » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:54 am

But I thought this was supposed to explain why we had two kills last night...!

MMCL · Post Post #553 (isolation #42) » Fri Aug 20, 2004 11:06 am

I made a decision (2 bottles of wine and a lovely birthday meal for my boyfriend helped)...

Unvote

and

Vote: Spork

unvote vote:mmclI don't want to accidentaly lynch a doc
and yes my powers can overide a roleblock or protect if the person chosen is being roleblocked

He seemed sure of it then (post 498) AND THEN had to check with the mod... or maybe he's just lying. Im not convinced by Araltaln, but Im fed up with this game - I've defended myself against poor acusations (and bad play by my former self) for so long that I have decided that it's time to make a stand. I know I'm not scum, I know mathcam's not scum (well 99% sure) and other than araltaln nobody else seems to be playing this game.... Mod - can we get some prods please...

I think Spork is scum, in fact, I would go as far as saying that he is of a similar flavour as Nanook - not scum per se, but enabled to help scum... however his skill is to double up someone's role and it is clear that whoever he chose last night, he doubled up.

He says in post 498 a present tense verb, 'can'.... now he says it was one-shot.

If I am wrong - lynch me tomorrow! I am pissed now and well... thats how I see it... bah!

MMCL · Post Post #561 (isolation #43) » Fri Aug 20, 2004 7:24 pm

Yeah - sorry about spinning a couple of yarns... I felt the situation was already dire so I figured I might as well try every trick in the book

Well played all... was a fun game, but to be honest there wasn't much I could really do to stop you getting me. Sorry for casting doubt on you Norinel... you are a great mod

MMCL · Post Post #563 (isolation #44) » Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:23 pm

Ack... to be honest I think I was fighting a losing battle from the start... no kill or block night two didnt help...

I was planning on blocking you tonight Sycko... and then going "Aha.. no kill - it must be Sycko then...!" However I am pretty sure mathcam was going to investigate me so it would have been game over...