Mini 551- Mod Abandoned

[Joubert]

I think it's reasonable to say that we got some interesting insight for the last posts. We managed to get into a situation where the Town will surely get good information after actions take place...

Of course, objectively speaking, jerubbaal's suspicion is not completely unjustified. But still, both names are alike, and I'm currently in another game with SensFan, so the confusion is likely and it'd be better to assume good faith. And let's suppose SensFan did not made his mistake, it would still mean that jerubbaal's death won't be for nothing, as it will reveal information for the Town as a team. Unless we lunch SensFan immediately, but with jerubbaal's lynch, SensFan's identifity will surely be clarified a lot. With those 3 factors in mind, jerubbaal's reaction seems somewhat exaggerated...

That put aside, here's the overview. If we lynch jerubbaal, and he turns out Scum (best case scenario), it means we eliminated a Scum and we can trust SensFan. UNLESS SensFan is bussing, which is a possibility, but I don't think it can be assessed comfortably at this point in the game. If jerubbaal turns out Innocent, we lose a Townie but we know that SensFan is lying, which is good as well...

[SensFan]

Vote: B
Vote: A
Vote: H

Vote: G
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: F
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: B
Vote: Y

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: E

Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: R

Vote: N
Vote: A
Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: S

Unvote, Vote: Joubert

[Korts]

Vote: B
Vote: A
Vote: H

Vote: G
Vote: O
Vote: T

Vote: C
Vote: O
Vote: N
Vote: F
Vote: U
Vote: S
Vote: E
Vote: D

Vote: B
Vote: Y

Vote: T
Vote: H
Vote: E

Vote: S
Vote: I
Vote: M
Vote: I
Vote: L
Vote: A
Vote: R

Vote: N
Vote: A
Vote: M
Vote: E
Vote: S

Unvote, Vote: Joubert

Before someone asks, I think SF's post 526 is just to emphasise that he has made this kind of mistake before, not to say that he investigated Joubert and not jerubbaal. Am I right, SF?

[SensFan]

Vote: Y
Vote: E
Vote: S

[Xylthixlm]

Honestly, I don't think there's any way we can lose this unless there are 4 or 5 scum.

[Korts]

Apart from Shanba, everyone's checked in. I think we should get to pairing. I'm against using CESc's pairs, because if he's scum, he'd naturally try to pair himself with his one of his partners.

[Korts]

I'm willing to be paired up with CESc, because I find him suspicious for his pairing post.

[jerubbaal]

Yes, I'm pissed, because several of you idiots just jumped onboard immediately after SF claimed guilty on me. I think we've already proved that this town is prone to quicklynches. Stop being stupid and actually consider the situation here. You have absolutely no halfway decent reason to trust SF here. He's a scum, trying to get one townie lynch out of his crappy day 1 claim, which he somehow avoided getting lynched for despite the stupid, impossible PR IN A MINI-NORMAL. If you follow him to my lynch today, and the scum manage to get a kill in tonight, you go to lylo, and even though you get SF, you still have to hit scum twice in a row. Even if you manage to lock the NK down, your chances of winning this game are extremely slim, especially with the analytical "prowess" of this town. I don't trust you guys to win this when I'm gone, and this should be a game that we have no trouble winning. Yes, I'm pissed because you are all so willing to punt this. You punted day 1, now you're busily working at punting day 2.

[Korts]

Yes, I'm pissed, because several of you idiots just jumped onboard immediately after SF claimed guilty on me. I think we've already proved that this town is prone to quicklynches. Stop being stupid and actually consider the situation here. You have absolutely no halfway decent reason to trust SF here. He's a scum, trying to get one townie lynch out of his crappy day 1 claim, which he somehow avoided getting lynched for despite the stupid, impossible PR IN A MINI-NORMAL. If you follow him to my lynch today, and the scum manage to get a kill in tonight, you go to lylo, and even though you get SF, you still have to hit scum twice in a row. Even if you manage to lock the NK down, your chances of winning this game are extremely slim, especially with the analytical "prowess" of this town. I don't trust you guys to win this when I'm gone, and this should be a game that we have no trouble winning. Yes, I'm pissed because you are all so willing to punt this. You punted day 1, now you're busily working at punting day 2.

We're not trusting SF. We want to find out if he's telling the truth. I'm fairly confident we can successfully block the NK. If you would be town, you'd realize your lynch is for the greater good.

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

I do not want to be paired with Korts, because I think he's town.

[jerubbaal]

Lynching a townie is for the greater good? Don't be idiotic. SF is NOT town, you're just giving the scum a free lynch.

[Shanba]

Ok. It pains me to say this, but I think I was wrong about SF. I could see a setup with one cop, but I honestly can't see the PR in such a setup - an all roleblocker setup is a gimmick already, and adding another gimmick goes against my sense of setup aesthetics. Oh, and I am indeed a roleblocker.

I think that the presence of so many roleblockers here is another mark against SensFan. It's worth leaving him alive (if he's scum, he'll reveal himself pretty quickly), but we definitely shouldn't just follow his result for today.

This, however, is wrong in just about every detail. SF has claimed a guilty on another player. I don't see a miller or a framer in a setup like this (and even if there is one, it's a fairly low chance that SF hit the miller/framee rather than the scum), so the odds are very firmly against both being town - and with the possibility of a breaking strategy we can even get away with lynching both of them so long as we get the pairings right. As such, the correct play is to lynch first jerub (so we avoid losing a potential cop) then if he turns up town, lynch SF.

Xyl, honestly - leaving him alive but not following his results is just about the worst option. Why did you think it would be a good idea?

(I also like this plan because I dislike jerub's reaction to the revelation)

[Cavebear with a toothache]

So we're all roleblockers except SF. Glad that's settled. What to do with the remaining three night actions, then? (Mine, Shanba's, Ting =)'s.) I'm starting to think it might not be all that relevant, but it's good to get it out there either way. Reveal popcorn style, vote who goes first? Or everyone who's already revealed votes on order of revealing? Or everybody vote on order of revealing?

Shanba has a good point about the guilty Jerub claim. I find it extremely hard to believe that there would be an insane cop with a post restriction (a miller/framer seems very unlikely too), so it should be a good way to see if he's lying.

[Korts]

Well, everyone's checked in. I think it's important, first, to see how many of us support following SF's result and lynching jerub. Please, don't express your support of this plan by voting, we still have to get the pairing done after we agreed on this.

[Korts]

In accordance with this, I'm going to

unvote

for now.

[Shanba]

So we're all roleblockers except SF. Glad that's settled. What to do with the remaining three night actions, then? (Mine, Shanba's, Ting =)'s.) I'm starting to think it might not be all that relevant, but it's good to get it out there either way. Reveal popcorn style, vote who goes first? Or everyone who's already revealed votes on order of revealing? Or everybody vote on order of revealing?

We definitely should reveal them. Maybe we can't learn anything now, but when we learn a few alignments it may be possible to work out who made the kill/who can't have made the kill later on in the game. I don't think it's particularly important which order we do it in - it would be incredibly farsighted scum who could manipulate this to his advantage. That said, there may be something I'm overlooking.

[jerubbaal]

I really don't know what else to say. You weren't smart enough to lynch the false-claiming scum day 1, I don't know why I should assume that you would be now. Why should I be frustrated at all? Oh, maybe because Khel made this variant broken for the town, but you're going to give the scum about the only chance they have with a freebie lynch. With three of them, the odds of them getting an NK tonight is not insignificant, and then you're in lylo the rest of the way, all because you were willing to buy the stupid false claim that he's a POST RESTRICTED COP IN A MINI-NORMAL!

All you are doing is playing so that, if SF is cop, we win, if SF is scum, we lose. All this is ignoring the convenient little point that, if SF were cop, he would be dead right now. The scum have absolutely no reason not to kill him.

[SensFan]

All this is ignoring the convenient little point that, if SF were cop, he would be dead right now. The scum have absolutely no reason not to kill him.

Vote: W
Vote: I
Vote: F
Vote: O
Vote: M

[Korts]

All you are doing is playing so that, if SF is cop, we win, if SF is scum, we lose.

NO. You're deliberately misinterpreting us. If SF is scum, we may be closer to losing, but by pairing, we still have a better chance than scum. If he's cop, well naturally we win then.

Jerubbaal, we're going to lynch you anyway, although now that you act like thrashing scum, I have all the more reason to vote for you when we've agreed on other business.

[Imat]

He does bring up a good point: Why wouldn't Scum lynch the Cop? Perhaps its because of all the Roleblockers. Perhaps, by looking at who was blocked, we can figure out who was Scum. It can only reveal one Scum, but it should reveal Scum.

But, for now, I'm fine with a jerub lynch. His consistent complaining over the loss of his own life for the good of the Town is very Scummy.

[Joubert]

What makes me uncomfortable is the possibility that SF could be Scum even if Jerub turned up Scum. Basically, we are confronted with: we lynch Jerub to find out SF's identity VS we kill SF immediately because his PR doesn't make sense...

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

Unvote

, if I'm voting.

I'm pretty sure Jerub is town.

[SensFan]

I'm pretty sure Jerub is town.

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y

[Cogito Ergo Scum]

I'm pretty sure Jerub is town.

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y

Metagaming.

[Korts]

I'm pretty sure Jerub is town.

Vote: W
Vote: H
Vote: Y

Metagaming.

As in?