Mini #553: Over!

[Mert]

The Sorry I'm Late Vote Count!

Votes required:

7 to lynch

3, Eljcko

-

Destructor, ting =), massive

2, Talitha

-

Qman, crazy_vlad

1, Matt_s

-

Khelvaster

1, Qman

-

Coolbot

1, ting =)

-

Matt_S

Not Voting:

5, Petunho, eljcko, crazy_vlad, Imat, massive, Talitha

Some thoughts up until the end of page seven. More to follow. In the meantime, if you feel there's a post I've overlooked or if there's something my predescesor said or did that you'd like me to try and explain, then please ask.

Hopefully will post part two either later tonight or tomorrow at the latest

12/12 people in the fellowship in this mini. 9 people in the real fellowship. 3-scum game is appropriate for 12 players.

I deduce that a mass nameclaim would work here. I don't want to know everyone's role--just what name they are. I believe we'll end up screwing the Nazgul up, unless there are some unorthodox names.

Wow, eight posts in and already someone's set the ol' scumdar a pingin'. I never like "predictions" on the amount of scum so early and to follow it up with an immediate call for a name-claim is just plain weird. Noting this for later.

I don't know whether to call you a scum or a power role.

Fishing much?

Oh, and I'd like it if people didn't nameclaim until I get a satisfactory explanation from Khelvaster. If it wasn't for the fact that you could be a power ,I'd vote for you now.

Just in case you weren't clear in the previous post that you want to know if this person is a power role?

So I'll say this: Whoever's the doc, protect Khelvaster. Whoever's the cop, investigate Khelvaster.

Good lord, if I'd been here from the beginning my vote would have been on you for certain by now.

Sorry folks, but I've been instructed to pull the plug on this game since it's clearly themed.

Vote: MeMe

as you were the most active so far i have little suspicion on you..

I think that's a very dangerous game to play, Crazy Vlad.

As far as I can tell, without more information, it doesn't mean much of anything. It's something we can look at later, when we have more information.

That's the second or third time I've noticed you post without really saying much. I understand that not everybody starts Day One super aggressively, but you seem almost as though you're lurking in plain sight at this point.

I'm pretty sure that Matt_S has claimed vanilla townie and that the mod did not give him a role name even originally. I don't think he was trying to get all the other vanillas to come forward, but I could be wrong about that. Now either Matt_S is really a vanilla townie, or this is one hell of a gambit. I lean toward him being a townie, but that's because the alternative is pretty much insane.

Okay, more substance than the post I quoted above, though I don't agree with you putting it neatly into "town or a huge gambit". If he turns out to be scum, I'll revisit this post as it seems like you're leading people away from him subtly.

CoolBot, you've been ignoring everything I said so that you could start a bandwagon on me.

I personally think a good bandwagon or two very early on is one of the best things for the town so I wouldn't worry too much.

To all the bandwagonners who didn't supply any reason: Really? Shameless bandwagon? For shame.

See above.

CoolBot has show himself to be shady in this game, I don't know if he warrants a vote, but his quick bandwagon hops do strike me as trying to get a quick lynch over with, perhaps anxious for the night to arrive.

Nah, I don't think so personally. At least not at this point. A few well-timed bandwagons generate a bunch of reactions and it's reactions from which we are able to discern someone's alignment. It's far easier to act when you're just talking than when you're being forced to think quickly and react to pressure or to weird things happening so I will often go out of my way to bandwagon a lot early in Day One as it's from acting in unexpected ways that you gather the best info. I don't persoanlly think this is a tell on CoolBot.

Also, rereading his "Bandwagon Hop," he didn't really hop. He had voted Khel originally for the same reason you all did, the Mass Claim. Then, after reading the copious amounts of evidence for and against the Mass Claim, he felt that it wasn't a good idea, but neither was it a scummy idea. When he decided this and then looked at how Matt agreed with this idea but then changed his vote with a rather wimpy excuse, he swapped to Matt, I believe only the second vote on the wagon and probably one of the few with any good reason.

While this could be a slight deflection ("I suspect you, oh no, here's actually why you're town" sounds inherently less suspicious than simply stating that you think someone is town) I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

[Matt_S]

I don't know whether to call you a scum or a power role.

Fishing much?

Oh, and I'd like it if people didn't nameclaim until I get a satisfactory explanation from Khelvaster. If it wasn't for the fact that you could be a power ,I'd vote for you now.

Just in case you weren't clear in the previous post that you want to know if this person is a power role?

So I'll say this: Whoever's the doc, protect Khelvaster. Whoever's the cop, investigate Khelvaster.

Good lord, if I'd been here from the beginning my vote would have been on you for certain by now.

I take it that you can't see things from my original perspective of "only power roles have names"? And I am forbidden from asking someone why they are doing something that I think would hurt the town?

[Talitha]

I do not like what she said about gsgold/petunho. That's a bit of a stretch.

That was a lame attempt at a joke on my part.

Qman: Thanks for your explanations... I'm a little less suspicious of you now I guess.

vote: eljcko

No reason not to.

[ting =)]

That was a lame attempt at a joke on my part.

Er, sorry. It's funny in hindsight. I think I take I took it too seriously. Heh.

[Imat]

Welcome to the game Mert.

I don't really like how Talitha is playing the game. Something about her recent posts seems underhanded, I think I'll have to check out the rest of her posts to compare.

The eljcko vote for his absence doesn't sit well with me either. Something is up with Talitha.

[CoolBot]

Talitha's post seems pretty straight forward to me. Care to explain what you don't like about it? Vague uneasiness isn't an convincing case.

[Matt_S]

Other than the fact that Talitha wanted to lynch me, I don't think she's scummy. I certainly don't see any underhandedness. However, I'm not fully convinced about eljcko. For now,

FoS eljcko

Mod:

Can we get a prod on eljcko?

[Imat]

I never said lynch her for it, I said something about her posts didn't sit right with me. A couple off posts isn't enough to condemn anybody, but tomorrow I'll explain some of my suspicions.

[eljcko]

Other than the fact that Talitha wanted to lynch me, I don't think she's scummy. I certainly don't see any underhandedness. However, I'm not fully convinced about eljcko. For now,

FoS eljcko

Mod:

Can we get a prod on eljcko?

I am here, I have been on the computer very little, sorry for not saying so before, I will read new posts and make a fatty content post for tommorrow.

[massive]

Game is dragging. I'm content with lynching eljcko; unfortunately, I can't vote twice.

[CoolBot]

I can see the value of getting the game moving, but I'd like to hear from Mert before ending the day. That, and I'm sure the minute someone votes eljcko someone else will unvote because the bandwagon is getting to big.

I said something about her posts didn't sit right with me.

And I'm asking what that something is. Otherwise, it appears you're just trying to spread suspicion without any concrete reason. I distrust that sort of play.

[Matt_S]

Imat: Why wait until tomorrow to explain your suspicions? If you're dead tomorrow, then we'll have an assload of WIFOM.

[Imat]

I meant tomorrow IRL, then got busy...

So, Onto my suspicions that I couldn't explain: Until now...

#173: After repeating an arguement that I had just made and that others had either agreed or disagreed with beforehand, votes Matt_S. Not mentioning that others had suggested the same thing was Scummy, voting Matt_S was, IMO, the right choice at the time.

#181: You could take this either way, but I took it as a plus. She mentions that CB never actually claimed un-named, just that he said he didn't have a name in the nine.

#192: Infamous "I prefer to miss out all the dragggging out of nothing and just head straight to the lynching of the hapless townie (or the hapless scum, if we get lucky.)" I don't think this was the best way to state it, but Talitha was definitely in support of a lynch before a deadline was set. However, the fact that she doesn't want a long day brings up my suspicions again.

#199: Says she hasn't been given a name but is all in favor of a Name claim...Knowing that she can't claim at all and therefore will not be effected by it.

#215: When given the quote "And, my thoughts on Matt_S's role remain undecided. He may be vanilla, he may be scum. He shows flashes of both," she replies " So let's lynch him (Matt_S) and find out."

#218: Explains her lynch Matt comment with "Anyone have any better candidates?"

#240: Jumps on Qman for a vote that had little evidence behind it. Unwarranted overreaction, IMO.

#242: Explains she would vote Matt, even though he could be either side, because his Townie claim makes him a safe lynch. I don't agree with this at all, but it comes down to circumstance.

#277: Votes Vlad out of "Annoyance mostly," but also because " am still too brain-dead to properly evaluate the case on eljcko." I don't get this at all. Vote someone for annoyance and some unnamed suspicions because you don't want to review valid suspicions on another player? As I said, I don't get it.

#290: Explains the "Don't care what alignment we lynch" by saying "Scum would care if the Town lynches Town or Scum." Doesn't really explain it, kind of makes you look worse. If Matt is Town, but you still want to lynch him because you "Don't care what alignment he is," it makes you look Scummy because Scum know hes Town. This doesn't explain in the least why you "Don't care what alignment the lynchee is." Then admits that Vlad isn't even suspicious and unvotes him.

#293: Mentions a possible Matt safe claim, kind of admits it really is possible, but disregards it because we are no longer discussing Matt.

#294: Good Point: Wants to know why Qman doesn't want to include the Names in Scumhunting. Bad Point: Role fishes the doubly replaced player.

#302: Explains off the role fishing by claiming it was a joke...Can't tell whether it was or not...Loses her suspicions of Qman when he answers her questions satisfactorily, but then Votes eljcko because theres "No reason not to." Again, it looks as though she doesn't care who we lynch, she just wants to be on the BW when it happens.


So, to explain what this mess means, Talitha has openly stated she doesn't care who we lynch, she just wants a lynch, and can't really give a good explanation for these comments. Also vote hops (Just twice) with no real reason, two of them on BW's and one of them for suspicions by other players at the time. She hasn't really explained any of her reasoning and maintains that she can't be bothered to do so until later...Which has yet to come, apparently. These are where my suspicions stem from, I guess I had put it together subconsciously long before I put these pieces together. From what I've seen, this is the biggest evidence in the game. I'm sure we all think that about our evidence, but this, I'm hoping, is enough to persuade others.

So, in honor of Talitha,

Vote: Talitha

No better place for it.

[eljcko]

Well, Talitha wanted to know who I think is scum, so I will post my list. If someone put a gun to my head and asked for 3 people, they would be (in no particular order):

Coolbot- I don't like your secretiveness during the early pages, and the double wagon makes me think that you are scum. But I have been getting some good vibes from you lately.

Talitha- You seem all over the place with your votes and comments in the game to me. I have yet to read Imat's epic post, but I will soon. More to come on you.

Qman. Your latest explinations have helped you out in my book, but you seem very irritable in this game. It is a reach, but you would be my not so sure pick.

[ting =)]

Eljko, I think you posting your scumlist was helpful but I'd also really like to know what you say to the accusations against you.

[ting =)]

Also, I'll be gone for the weekend, I'll post again Monday.

[Talitha]

Epic post indeed, but it's mostly just a wrap up of all my posts with Imat putting his scummy spin onto everything I have said or done.

e.g. my post #294. Imat says "Role fishes the doubly replaced player."
Do you REALLY believe I was role-fishing there Imat? Yes or No answer, please.

e.g. my post #199. Imat says "Says she hasn't been given a name but is all in favor of a Name claim"
Which part of my post 199 said that I was "all in favour" of it, Imat? That's a blatant misrepresentation.

e.g. my post #173. Imat says "Not mentioning that others had suggested the same thing was Scummy"
Um, why? Bear in mind I was a replacement who was eager to catch up and give my take of the game. Everyone could see if others had said similar things, it was all right there in black and white.

e.g. #277: Imat says "I don't get it"
If you don't get something Imat, you could ask for clarification. If you are actually interested in hunting for scum that is... I don't think you are though. You've decided I'm an easy looking lynch for today, and you're likely trying to draw the bandwagon away from your buddy eljcko.

Imat also says that I voted Eljcko for his absence. Not true. It was partially pressure, partially gut, and partially ting.

[Imat]

Really Talitha?

Ok, #294 Revisited: I really don't know whether you meant what you said or not, but you're explanation of it as "A lame joke" was thoroughly unconvincing.

#199 Revisited:

I havent read the last few posts properly but wanted to post re the name claim.

I wasn't given a name when i replaced in, and I assume that the other replacees don't have names either. This doesn't mean that people who are original players shouldnt claim... I will mull over that for a while.

blatant misrepresentation? I took "My not having a name doesn't mean others shouldn't name claim" as you being in favor of it. That may not have been what you meant, but its what I took it as and an easy interpretation to see.

#173 Revisited: By repeating others arguments we don't really see your own opinions...Ordinarily I'd agree that yes, you being new gives you some leeway, but I haven't seen much else in the way of hunting since then.

#277 Revisited: ATM I don't have an opinion either way on eljcko. I won't support his lynch because I don't believe in it, but I won't try and stop it either: I don't have that power. And I am interested in Scum hunting, more so than I've seen in you. Thats one of the many reasons I voted for you.

#302 Revisited: Since you didn't put in a post number...Anyways, I didn't say you voted eljkco for his absence. Is that why you voted him? Because otherwise I saw you vote him because "No reason not to." Again, it seems like your desire of a lynch overrides all logical thinking. Otherwise theres really no explanation for your actions.

I've noticed, Talitha, that you constantly vote people for no reason and show a general lack of participation in hunting. When people question this, you reply with something to the effect of "I'm too tired/not caught up/I'm a replacement, bear with me." Nobody else has shown such a blatant disregard for who we lynch and for what reason.

[CoolBot]

I don't know, I think you're reading into her posts what you want to, Imat. Especially the joke thing - I can't see how you're not seeing it.

[Qman]

I really like ting's post on eljcko. I also very much DON'T like his defense against it. Rather the lack thereof a defense.

A little more pressure to actually defend himself seems appropriate, yes?

Vote eljcko

Come on, respond to the charges or my vote isn't going to move.

[eljcko]

I guess I will rip through this thing in my defense. Again, I will answer questions if you ask me. My statements are in bold.

About Eljcko:

If you read back - I actually thought he was the most suspicious at first. Then, I changed to coolbot. The switch was partly because I was afraid I was wrong about him and he might be a power role. Here's why:

That was post nine. He seems to know a lot about the

townie PM

, but there is

no townie PM

posted by Shaka. Two possibitites strike me right away.

Way to get rid of the rest of my post. I metioned Matt_S may be vanilla, or he is fake claiming. But as it came about, the townie PM is not the same for everyone, so a uniform PM is not possible anymore.

A couple of things are obvious: He is not a townie, named or unnamed. [Sorry Qman, I have to. =(] You can read his previous posts, he mentions in a number of posts not knowing what the townie PM is, without making any distinction between named or unnamed townie.

I make posts about how some people I felt suspicous about knew about the PM. Have you ever thought that I know something about the townie PM?

This makes him either power role, or scum - which is why I was unwilling to continue my attack on him - I was unsure.

Again, jumping to conclusions.

I've made up my mind now though. Read back on his early game reactions on the name claim. I don't want to quote since you have to take it in context of all the other posts around it.

He was against the name claim. If you read back on how the other people with names reacted: They could all see that the plan could maybe work, like destructor. Sure, most of them had apprehensions on how it might not work, but the nameds could see how it might work.

I was against a name claim because it would screw our power roles over. Of course when I tell you this, you don't believe me. Read my first post, I say it will out the power roles. Most had some apprehensions, not all of us are named, so I am nervous that our power roles might get killed. Do you want the power roles killed? (<-- Rhetorical, don't answer.) The reason I am against the claim is because not all of us are named. I might as well claim here. I am a member of the fellowship alligned with the town. I have my vote and win when all threats are gone. I have a feeling this won't work because if someone with a name claims, then 3 vanillas claim, then a power role just got potentially spotted.

People like matt and ranger all thought it might out the power roles, something which, I maintain that only town without names could have thought of.

Crazy thought there. I was against a claim because I knew this.

Eljcko's behaviour doesn't fit either the named or unnamed town profiles. In fact, if you read post 26, he sits on the fence, something which massive called him on earlier. He says he AGREES with what

matt

says, BUT he calls a name claim PRO-town, which is something matt obviously did not think. Then, after saying that a name-claim would be pro-town, he says he WOULDN'T go for it because a name-claim would be bad early on in the game, and he says that khel was asking for specific names, something which khel never asked for in any way.

I can have my independent thoughts that a name-claim is pro-town.A group of scum with little knowledage of the setup want not to claim. It is not samrt at all. What if everyone had names, there were too many variables. I don't go for the name claim because like ranger, I don't think it will work because of previous stuff I already stated. I already commented on being overall cnservative, but against certian conservative views, like death penalty.

That ended up sparking a confession where he says he misunderstood khel, but when he says what he thought khel actually meant, he STILL misunderstands what khel was saying - showing that he never saw things from khel's, or any of the named's eyes at all. In fact, now that I've reread everything, coolbot actually ends up agreeing with eljcko's misunderstanding of khel's view, and he ends up sparking an argument with khel in post 70. You can read khel's reply to coolbot and eljcko's view in post 77.

Khel wants to know if there is any role outsid fellowship names, like an elf. I misread it.

In fact, in light of all that, I'm more convinced now that Eljcko and coolbot are scum. I am going to

vote:eljcko

[crazy_vlad]

this game has started at the end of january
its mid march. in this rhythm it will take us more than 1 year to finish the game

mod

please pick a deadline for this day
otherwise please look for someone to replace me.
ty.

[Mert]

Sorry guys, my internet connection was unexpectedly borked the last few days and it's not long come back. More from me coming soon, now that it's all sorted

[Khelvaster]

I was against a name claim because it would screw our power roles over. Of course when I tell you this, you don't believe me. Read my first post, I say it will out the power roles. Most had some apprehensions, not all of us are named, so I am nervous that our power roles might get killed. Do you want the power roles killed? (<-- Rhetorical, don't answer.) The reason I am against the claim is because not all of us are named. I might as well claim here. I am a member of the fellowship alligned with the town. I have my vote and win when all threats are gone. I have a feeling this won't work because if someone with a name claims, then 3 vanillas claim, then a power role just got potentially spotted.

Wow...you seem to be more scummy than you have before with this post. Nameclaiming wouldn't out power roles.

Furthermore, you just said you are a member of the fellowship and you are a vanilla townie. You haven't gone and said *which* member of the fellowship you were. This is

exactly

what I was expecting a scum to do and why I advocated nameclaiming in the firstplace.

Vote: Eljcko

[eljcko]

I was against a name claim because it would screw our power roles over. Of course when I tell you this, you don't believe me. Read my first post, I say it will out the power roles. Most had some apprehensions, not all of us are named, so I am nervous that our power roles might get killed. Do you want the power roles killed? (<-- Rhetorical, don't answer.) The reason I am against the claim is because not all of us are named. I might as well claim here. I am a member of the fellowship alligned with the town. I have my vote and win when all threats are gone. I have a feeling this won't work because if someone with a name claims, then 3 vanillas claim, then a power role just got potentially spotted.

Wow...you seem to be more scummy than you have before with this post. Nameclaiming wouldn't out power roles.

Furthermore, you just said you are a member of the fellowship and you are a vanilla townie. You haven't gone and said *which* member of the fellowship you were. This is

exactly

what I was expecting a scum to do and why I advocated nameclaiming in the firstplace.

Vote: Eljcko

I am not named. I am a vanilla generic fellowship member. I thought it would out the power roles because I have no name and that possibly means other people don't have names.