Mini 568 - Nubigena (Game over!)

[XReyoX]

It means you have to re-think about your logic and playstyle. People don't attack you based on nothing, and i doubt all the scums are attacking you. When a town get lynched, the problems usually don't lie on the others, but himself.

Do you really have nothing to comment on other than sammich and his dice?

[Ripley]

My own feeling is that the whole issue of Sammich and the dice ought to be cleared up now, as far as possible to everyone's satisfaction, or else there's a real danger it'll just rear its head again in ten pages or twenty pages, and it'll be a chore then to revisit the issue whereas now it's fresh in everyone's mind. What is Sammich's actual current position? That he was joking, that he really rolled the dice, that he invented the whole thing to lighten the thread up? - he seems to have said all these things at one time or another, and I really wonder why he won't make a clear and unambiguous statement so that we can move on. Does he like the attention too much to relinquish it?

I don't think there's any point telling people what they ought or ought not to find relevant. Near has made it clear he's in the middle of some unfinished business with Sammich and I'm quite interested to see how that turns out.

For what it's worth I agree with those who disbelieve the dice roll story simply because of the time constraints. I don't believe it's necessary to prove motive here (ie to present some kind of rationale as to what he had to gain by inventing it).

Many recent criticisms of Near sounded a bit contrived and made me think of vultures circling a weakened prey, and that was

before

the votes from Y and MP. I'm starting to wonder if MP has some private win condition relating to invalid votes (I think he's managed five so far, all for different people. Maybe he's going for the full set.)

I think, as XReyoX has said, it would be prudent here to to take special precautions. Don't put anyone who could be hammered by MP at L-1 unless you're prepared for that to happen. Sammich's possible voting behavior is also an unknown. He's only voted for himself so far.

[gorckat]

My own feeling is that the whole issue of Sammich and the dice ought to be cleared up now, as far as possible to everyone's satisfaction, or else there's a real danger it'll just rear its head again in ten pages or twenty pages, and it'll be a chore then to revisit the issue whereas now it's fresh in everyone's mind.

QFT. The less confusion later, the better.

I'm starting to wonder if MP has some private win condition relating to invalid votes (I think he's managed five so far, all for different people. Maybe he's going for the full set.)

That seems like a reach. I suppose its possible to make a win condition requiring every player in the game be voted for, no more than one per page counting. It would explain the vote for avi, but:

I think Occam's razor says to take MP for what he's been before- a poor player- and not invent rationale to justify his play.

And if MP is going to make -1 votes as good as lynches, then it brings us back to a policy lynch.

Let's get Sammich wrapped up (hehe- sandwich...wrap ) and revisit MP.

[destructor]

.::] Vote Count [::.

Mafiaplayer (1)

- XReyoX

Sammich (2)

- Near, Sammich

Near (3)

- Lowell, Y, Mafiaplayer

Not Voting (4) - Ripley, Imat, gorckat, Incognito, jerubaal

Six

votes makes a lynch.

[Y]

I believe Near saw a growing wagon and decided to jump in, using the most recent accusation. That accusation can't be proven neither right nor wrong, since our knowledge of it depends on Sammich's answer. No matter how questionable this roll was, as long as he says it happened, arguing with him is futile. There's nothing we can say that can prove otherwise. That's why I think the whole argument is pointless.
So why is Near so obsessed with it? Because he's afraid to say he has no real point. If he (Near) backs up now, he'll be questioned for the matter being unfinished, so he keeps going.

What is Sammich's actual current position? That he was joking, that he really rolled the dice, that he invented the whole thing to lighten the thread up? - he seems to have said all these things at one time or another

That's not exactly true. At least one of this points (Sammich saying he invented the whole thing) is Near's saying, not Sammich's.

Mod:

Can you prod the non-active people? We haven't heard from Lowell in a while, and I think he's not the only one.

[Sammich]

Surely Near has something other to base is play on other than dice rolling?

Unvote

Near, attacking another player to shift suspicion from yourself isn't a very good defense. Tsk tsk.

Fos

for you while I'm still enjoying the weekend.

[XReyoX]

OK

Vote: Sammich

If thats the only way to get an answer from you.

I've asked the question for what...

7

times?

Just answer it for god sake.

[gorckat]

vote: Sammich

You're not the only one whose been pushing for it.

[Sammich]

Sammich:
I'm sorry if I've missed your answer somewhere. Why did you claim, why do you think that it was a good time to claim townie and what made you think you want to vouch for mafiaplayer because you are a townie.

At first I just was overwhelmed by the action (last time I had a night start I was replaced, and it didn't go to well), I felt that there were probably better scumhunting targets than Mafiaplayer and I still think that. I don't like tunnel vision.

/facepalm

[XReyoX]

so? i dun see where the reasons are.

[Imat]

My interpretation of Sammich's answer: He felt MP was Town and he didn't like everybody focusing on that one issue.

My Opinion: Claiming was not the right answer. You had the right idea, that we shouldn't focus on one stupid thing, but the execution was off. We definitely would have moved on from MP when we saw the rest of his bad play style, your intervention was completely unnecessary. However, that said, I don't think Sammich is Scum. Scum would have kept the argument over MP going, despite its lack of usefulness. Ending it was a Town move more than a Scum move.

[gorckat]

Or they could have ended it, to prove their towniness, but that's not the key point:

He still hasn't answered why he

vouched

for MP. Why did his being a townie enable him to say MP was?

[Near]

And he still hasn't answered my question.

Near, attacking another player to shift suspicion from yourself isn't a very good defense. Tsk tsk.

WTF. I have been defending myself from left and right. And in fact, it was the fact that I attacked you based on your dice incident that some people found me more scummy.

Answer my question.

[Sammich]

I don't follow you near. What question did you ask?

[Ripley]

There were also my questions about your "night start" comments which I asked you to explain, Sammich. I'll quote what I said again here:

Something that cropped up several times with Sammich was his fixation with the night start, which has run right through the game so far:

It's been a while since I had a night start, I'm having fun.

At first I just was overwhelmed by the action (last time I had a night start I was replaced, and it didn't go to well),

“In a night start? Voting myself in a night start? Does that make any sense?”

Why would a night start be so signficant to a vanilla townie, which is what Sammich has claimed to be? Why does it make such an apparent difference to him? Sammich, would you explain all of these remarks?

[Near]

I don't follow you near. What question did you ask?

Who do you think are scums? And why?

[XReyoX]

I'm more and more suspicious of sammich's play. He seems to be only focused on himself and is skimming the thread, ignoring majority of the questions that are asked. I'm getting a feeling that he is not scumhunting at all too. He wrote a huge post about how fair his roll was but spend almost no effort in answering his questions. He accussed me for make a big fuss about MP's playstyle and said I could have just said MP is a mudkip instead of all that. And then he credited MP for sparkling discussion. I don't see the logic behind. On one hand he is saying I should stop talking about MP, on the other hand he is saying MP is doing a good job to encourage discussion.

[destructor]

Mod:

Can you prod the non-active people? We haven't heard from Lowell in a while, and I think he's not the only one.

Lowell has been prodded. The others have posted in the last 72 hours.

[Incognito]

OK, first welcome to the game, Ripley. Good to play in a game with you again. =)

Many recent criticisms of Near sounded a bit contrived[...]

Which criticisms in particular did you feel sounded contrived?

[jerubbaal]

Didn't catch the stuff about the night start before, but I actually find that hugely relevant. The only people to whom the night 0 was significant were power roles and scum, and Sammich has claimed to be vanilla. That kind of narrows the options.

My read on Near has become somewhat jumbled. This Sammich thing is interesting though, because after jumping around at several targets and making half-assed cases, he's finally latched on to something which he perceives as having some support. This isn't completely scummy, but it is common scum MO to follow the support day 1.

[XReyoX]

What is a common scum MO?

[Mafiaplayer]

Why isn't Imat voting?

[XReyoX]

Why does he have to vote?

[jerubbaal]

Modus operandi (pretty sure that's the right Latin), i.e. method of operating.

[Near]

My read on Near has become somewhat jumbled. This Sammich thing is interesting though, because after jumping around at several targets and making half-assed cases, he's finally latched on to something which he perceives as having some support. This isn't completely scummy, but it is common scum MO to follow the support day 1.

I got more negative comments for pursuing this "useless" dice-roll incident than I received support. I am pursuing this because I think this is relevant.

Why the heck isn't Sammich answering my questions? Why is he not answering anyone else's questions?