Mini 539: Game over

[Hjallti]

EPWOP:

mod: Justin doesn't need prodding

, he played wednesday, it was only a lot of pages back... sorry

[kuribo]

Hello? The scum aren't getting any deader.

[Incognito]

Apart from Gorgon we still have 4 scum candidates, have we? Or are you willing to leave kuribo out of the picture?

No, you're right. I miscounted actually.

Hello? The scum aren't getting any deader.

Yeah, I've been waiting for Justin's response to my questions before progressing further.

[Hjallti]

I am also waiting for Justin and MafiaSSK. Tomorrow I will be voting in any case and probably for Justin unless by then I am convinced I should vote someone else. We just need to proceed, but having input from everyone would be nice however.

[Hjallti]

This probably will be my last post before and period of no (3days) and limited acces (7days).

I want to summarize the situation from my viewpoint.

I believe that we had a 3:9 setup, which means a 1:6 at the moment. It might include a neutral, but not a SK, but we are not sure of everything.

Incognito

and

mafiaSSK

claimed confirmed mason together, and can be believed beyond doubt.

Gorgon

claimed cop, and I don't believe the claim, but as it is not counterclaimed it could be truthful. Therefor we shouldn't lynch him today.

From the other 4 I only know I am town, but I have no way to proof it.

The other 3 could contain the left over scum:
I would be totally surprized if it is

kuribo

I don't think

Xtoxm

is scum but this is rather gut.

Justin Playfair

I can't read, but he would be the last scum, if Gorgon isn't.

I think to proceed we should lynch today one of the four not claimed players, tonight Gorgon should investigate another of those 4. (Justin Playfair, if alive or Xtoxm if Justin is lynched, would be my choice)
The rest is for tomorrow.

Because I will be leaving and I want not to hold the game up I end this post with a

vote: Justin Playfair

[kuribo]

Personally, I nominate Justin Playfair since we've all had a hard time getting a read on him.

Unvote, Vote: Justin Playfair

[Xtoxm]

Dragging now...

unvote vote JP

.

I think it's Gorgon, but yeh, we can't lynch him today.

[Incognito]

Errrr... that was a rather quick wagon. Nobody hammer please until he gets the chance to come on and at least defend himself.

[Xtoxm]

What's the point?

Everyone has Gorgon as their top suspect atm, I think. We're jsut after a second lynch. And JP is the least active...

[Incognito]

That doesn't matter. I've been buying Justin as town for a significant portion of this game, and I think he deserves as much a chance as anyone else for a chance to defend himself in this situation. It's not like he's lurking; he seems absent site-wide.

[MafiaSSK]

What bad could happen if we lynch JP? The worst thing that could happen is one of us masons getting scum-killed if JP isn't scum.. "However we would then know that Gorgon is the most likely scum canidate and lynch him immeadietly.
So now for my suspects in order:
Gorgon: He has a sort of lying-sound to his claim of "cop". He has not really gotten back any town-points after his predecessor's scummish sayings as well/ He is my top suspect At the moment.
JP': He could be a really good scum or a mediocre townie. He is really hard to readand that really makes him hard to define. I've previously stated this as SK actions but we could see tonight if instead of lying JP we could lynch Gorgon.
Xtoxm: Could possibly be scum. Though he does seem like a townie when he posts. However his last post to lynch JP for another reason besides scummish behavior is his inactivness. I'm not quite sure if this is a scumtell or not. So I'll leave him as town.
Kuribo: A really agressive townie, nothing more.
Incognito: MY BIG MASON BUUUUUUDDIE!
So I'll just

unvote

until I can decide on who to vote for today. Either Gorgon or JP.

[Incognito]

SSK, either way, I'd recommend you DON'T place a vote on Justin until he gets a chance to defend himself. I know how quick you are with votes sometimes so please be cautious here.

[Justin Playfair]

First, Incognito,

My questions to you on day one were largely to gain some clarification. I had a pretty town read on you, and because I did I didn’t like the direction things seemed to be going. I wanted more on ChronX before I went after him, and also wanted to see if I would be included in his attacks after letting you clear yourself in a non-confrontational situation. ChronX instead vanished. Actually think I might have already outlined my thinking during this phase earlier.

About lynching me. There is a worse idea, which would be lynching Gorgon, but it’s still not a great one. And it’s especially bad if tomorrow you’re planning on coming back and lynching Gorgon, because that would possibly buy scum (and I’m still thinking we’re talking about either Hjallti or XtoXm) a trip to the final three.

Since he has entered the game Hjallti has been gunning for me one way or another, either with me as a serial killer (or some other non-town aligned person?) or me as inscrutable. He hasn’t actually been able to point to anything scummy I’ve done, but he has repeated endlessly how hard I am to read until it does appear to have gained some traction. And just what does “hard to read” mean?

Well, if Hjallti could point to me playing the way I am here in a game where I turned out to be scum it might have some meaning, though even then it wouldn’t mean much, unless he could point to games where I was town and played differently. As it turns out, I’ve been in three games which are over, was town in all three, and played the same way in them as I have here. (This includes my near total absence from the site for this last week or so, which was unfortunately beyond my control). So what “hard to read” means in this context would seem to be “I want him to be scummy, but he hasn’t done anything scummy, so I have to pretend he’s unreadable and therefore can’t be trusted”. If that’s a good enough argument for you, then you should probably go ahead and vote me. But keep in mind that you’re accepting this very specious argument from the same guy who suggested a no lynch right after a third power role claimed, attacked Kuribo from every possible direction while Kuribo was firing at Shteven and finally directed Gorgoncop’s investigation for tonight.

And more on the idea of the no-lynch. What good does one more unconfirmed suspect being alive in town do for TOWN in the lynch or lose? It makes possible a tie that would create another no-lynch and another night kill that could remove whoever the most problematic townie was for scum. It leaves one extra suspect to further muddy the lynch or lose waters. I mean I understand clearly the value for scum. But if someone has a compelling town reason for a no-lynch, please tell me, because I don’t see it.

Xtoxm has voted for me even though he claims he doesn’t think I’m scum. He also tried nearly hysterically to get Gorgon lynched from the moment Gorgon claimed cop. He was also the person Claus loved so much he described Xtoxm’s play style in ways that could not possibly describe Xtoxm’s actual play.

Both are doing the same basic dance. Let’s lynch someone today and get it out of the way so we can get to night and come back to lynch Gorgon tomorrow. One of these two is probably town playing into scum’s hands. One of them is probably scum. Trying to stack lynches is just one more scummy behavior they’re both engaging in. And acting as though we just need to get a lynch out of the way, and there’s no reason to actually find scummy behavior or in any way make or build a case is, in my experience anyway, usually the behavior of scum who don’t want anyone looking too hard at actual actions and interactions in the game.

If we’re going to lynch someone, it might be a better idea to lynch someone who’s actually engaged in scummy behavior, or someone whose closest link to known scum wasn’t having one of them try to get him lynched and the other describe him in the same “middle of the road, impossible to read” way that Hjallti has been doing.

However, if you do lynch me today, do not come back and automatically follow these two to a lynch of Gorgon tomorrow. If Gorgon is alive tomorrow he may be the last scum, but he may also (and I tend at this point to think more likely than not) be a cop. The previous game Incognito referred to makes me far from certain that we don’t have a cop and a godfather in this game. And knowing I’m not scum I have to regard both Xtoxm’s and Hjallti’s easy attitude toward “just lynching somebody so we can get back tomorrow and lynch Gorgon” as extremely suspicious. It’s a free pass to a final three with two other unconfirmed players. I’m not saying you should accept Gorgon’s claim on faith, but you need to consider it, and you need to look elsewhere in a way no one has yet today. And if you do lynch Gorgon, and he is a cop, you must not simply accept his investigation. Gorgon living to tomorrow and dying as a cop is an almost certain guarantee that we have a godfather.

All that said, I will:

Vote: Hjallti

for now, because I can’t make his no-lynch idea work as benefiting anyone but scum. Sorry for not defending myself much, but no one’s actually pointed to anything for me to defend myself for.

[Incognito]

I agree with Justin Playfair, and I think we should support him.

Vote: Hjallti

[Gorgon]

To whom it may concern:

I'm on holiday, and have much less access to the Internets than I anticipated. I cannot say for sure when activity will be back to normal, except it will be on Monday at the latest.

[Xtoxm]

I'd rather JP tbh.

[Xtoxm]

JP is L-1, H is L-2.

SSK and Gorgon please place your votes...This day is getitng slow and dragging.

[Incognito]

Honestly, I don't think JP is mafia. I know that looking at night-kills isn't the best way to go about figuring out who is mafia, but if JP was mafia, why would he kill Jester? He's already mentioned that he thought kuribo was breadcrumbing the role of Cop. Wouldn't he more likely take kuribo out with an NK than Jester? Earlier JP even mentioned that he thought I was a cop too. Again, why wouldn't he use his NK on me during Night 1 instead of Ythill?

Hjallti fits better than JP in my opinion. He sided with Shteven, and I think the attacks from ChronX that I cited in my analysis of Ho1den's earlier play actually weren't that severe after all. ChronX wasn't directly attacking Ho1den; he kept on making side comments about Ho1den but even after Ho1den's responses, ChronX never followed up on his attacks the same way he did with his attacks on me. I honestly think Hjallti is the better lynch in this case than Justin.

[Xtoxm]

Well. I think it's Gorgon, but that's besides the point.

[kuribo]

That's the problem, Hjallti sided with Shteven to the point that it would have been nearly stupid for him to do so as mafia.

Of course, we could go into WIFOM territory and say that it's a perfectly safe move because we'd be expected to think that.

Screw it.

Unvote

While I think about this.

[kuribo]

Well. I think it's Gorgon, but that's besides the point.

I do too, but there's no point in lynching him today. In terms of Gorgon, we need to see what tomorrow brings.

[Xtoxm]

Ugh. I don't care which one anymore. If you vote H i'm hammering.

[Xtoxm]

Well. I think it's Gorgon, but that's besides the point.

I do too, but there's no point in lynching him today. In terms of Gorgon, we need to see what tomorrow brings.

Yeah I know, but it means we're lynching someone else that no-one particularly suspects.

[kuribo]

Well. I think it's Gorgon, but that's besides the point.

I do too, but there's no point in lynching him today. In terms of Gorgon, we need to see what tomorrow brings.

Yeah I know, but it means we're lynching someone else that no-one particularly suspects.

Hjallti's play has been scummy, though, and the argument against lynching him is the WIFOM statement that "If he were scum, he wouldn't be stupid enough to X."

[Xtoxm]

Well. I think it's Gorgon, but that's besides the point.

I do too, but there's no point in lynching him today. In terms of Gorgon, we need to see what tomorrow brings.

Yeah I know, but it means we're lynching someone else that no-one particularly suspects.

Hjallti's play has been scummy, though, and the argument against lynching him is the WIFOM statement that "If he were scum, he wouldn't be stupid enough to X."

Actually I think his play has been pretty town.