Primate: 1 (Thesp)
UltimaAvalon: 1 (cicero)
Not voting: 7 (UltimaAvalon, ooba, The Fonz, Lawrencelot, Primate, Cogito Ergo Sum, Kison)
Deadline will be ~4th April.
As things presently stand, no-one would be lynched at deadline.
With 3 dead finders, 2 dead and one obsolete protector, a dead vig, and a claimed dayvig, I'm not sure what else is left that we need to protect.CES wrote:If the mass claim gives us any insight into alignment, then that'll probably lead to scum killing the wrong people.
We're already going to lose - we're pretty far behind, and there's no way we can lynch all the scum before they kill us. Why would we give them confirmed innocents to think of as better targets? I mean, if I were scum, I'd be trying to cross-kill the other team because they'll be the competition and not the town, but I don't think the scum are all that smart.UltimaAvalon wrote:Brawl.
I been down with massclaim since Day 1. That being said, I dont see what CES is trying to get at withWith 3 dead finders, 2 dead and one obsolete protector, a dead vig, and a claimed dayvig, I'm not sure what else is left that we need to protect.CES wrote:If the mass claim gives us any insight into alignment, then that'll probably lead to scum killing the wrong people.
This statement would be more correct if you'd said "the difference between cicero and everyone else who has UA in some sort of scum list is cicero actually hasUltimaAvalon wrote:Also, the difference between cicero and everyone else who has UA in some sort of scum list is cicero actually has a reason.
Really? If I were scum, I'd be trying to use the lynch to kill opposing scum, while using the nightkill to kill Townies. I think they are that smart, because, surprise, thats exactly whats been going on.Thesp wrote:We're already going to lose - we're pretty far behind, and there's no way we can lynch all the scum before they kill us. Why would we give them confirmed innocents to think of as better targets? I mean, if I were scum, I'd be trying to cross-kill the other team because they'll be the competition and not the town, but I don't think the scum are all that smart.UltimaAvalon wrote:Brawl.
I been down with massclaim since Day 1. That being said, I dont see what CES is trying to get at withWith 3 dead finders, 2 dead and one obsolete protector, a dead vig, and a claimed dayvig, I'm not sure what else is left that we need to protect.CES wrote:If the mass claim gives us any insight into alignment, then that'll probably lead to scum killing the wrong people.
You argue semantics and continue to prove my point. ThanksThesp wrote:This statement would be more correct if you'd said "the difference between cicero and everyone else who has UA in some sort of scum list is cicero actually hasUltimaAvalon wrote:Also, the difference between cicero and everyone else who has UA in some sort of scum list is cicero actually has a reason.provideda reason".
I like UA as scum even more now.
If the scumPrimate wrote: I'm against the mass-claim because we have two confirmed innocents in the game, one in the form of the pirate protector, and the other in the form of the vanilla townie. We out them, and regardless of how small the game is, the scumwillkill them instead of each other. If we run up the townie and the PP today, then I'll be in favour of a mass claim of the remaining people, but I just don't think the benefit outweighs the cost at this point.
Good reason. But your posts didn't look very protown throughout D1 and later, so you shouldn't be surprised that you're in anyone's scumlist.UltimaAvalon wrote:Brawl.
I been down with massclaim since Day 1. That being said, I dont see what CES is trying to get at withWith 3 dead finders, 2 dead and one obsolete protector, a dead vig, and a claimed dayvig, I'm not sure what else is left that we need to protect.CES wrote:If the mass claim gives us any insight into alignment, then that'll probably lead to scum killing the wrong people.
Also, the difference between cicero and everyone else who has UA in some sort of scum list is cicero actually has a reason.
Heya UA. I'm confused. You are down with a mass claim (as I have tended to be) but doesn't your point above speak to the issue CES is getting at? CES seems to be arguing that for us to have a chance, we need the scum to accidentally crosskill shoot each other. That gives us more days to lynch. If we massclaim, they won't cross-kill and will efficiently wipe us out. He does make some sense.Really? If I were scum, I'd be trying to use the lynch to kill opposing scum, while using the nightkill to kill Townies. I think they are that smart, because, surprise, thats exactly whats been going on.
But why in the world would you kill townies at night at this point (especially since the other scum group is doing that well enough)? It's clear that the town is screwed as it is and will be nightkilled into oblivion. When I try to play a game, I play to win, not to win big. Right now, the biggest threat to the scum isn't the town, it's the rival scum group. I seeUltimaAvalon wrote:Really? If I were scum, I'd be trying to use the lynch to kill opposing scum, while using the nightkill to kill Townies.
Don't we already have several excellent suspects for scum?ooba wrote:So massclaim will probably help them avoid the townies and hit the other scum .. And will make sure we don't mislynch now too
If you think this, you haven't though about the ramifications of a mass claim enough. Look at the roles we know to be in the game and apply them to the playerlist and you'll see what I mean.ooba wrote:So massclaim will probably help them avoid the townies and hit the other scum
They're still backing me into a corner without giving me a means to defend myself.Lawrencelot wrote:your posts didn't look very protown throughout D1 and later, so you shouldn't be surprised that you're in anyone's scumlist.
Why? There areUltimaAvalon wrote:I still can't wrap my ahead around the logic that Scumwantto nightkill other scum. It'll take twice as long for them to make a kill, and it gives Town the chance to recuperate and retaliate.
Also, I've noticed you are still adamantly refusing to scumhunt. Who do you think are scum? Why?
They weren't confirmed. No, they probably weren't lying. Kison spoke the truth. No idea what snide comments you're referring to. I'm always mean to MBL. It's how we roll.In #585, he spends two paragraphs debunking the claimed masons as non-confirmed despite the fact they probably aren't lying, then makes snide comments against the vig and a townie who isn't even there.
Day Two was over before I even managed to check the thread. Sue me.#990: Moves onto Rossowagon to prevent a mislynch. Doesn't post all of day 2, when guardianscum is being lynched.
This would make more sense as evidence of Kison scummage if I was Rogueben's partner. I'm obviously not.In #1683, he posts a list of possibilities without saying how likely each are or which he thinks is true, then proceeds to take the easy (though admittedly right) path of getting Rogueben to out his partner, though he doesn't actually say he wants Rogueben to out his partner, he says "If Rogueben refuses to name someone before the deadlines with a strong voice demanding it, he should be lynched and I will gladly pile my vote on"
I didn't accept anything "unconditionally." I used my brain and came to a conclusion.#1219, he debunks the lynch preventer as not necessarily confirmed then says he unconditionally believes the dead scum (taking an aside from things that actually happened for a second to state an opinion, I don't think he would have been anywhere near as certain regarding trusting the word of a dead scum if he didn't know Guardian was telling the truth and that there was a scum on the other end of the lynch he was arguing for), especially considering he doubted everything else that guardian said.
Make only the scummy people claim is better of course. But your "excellent suspects" are Primate, and who else? IIRC, you find Primate scummy because of the ninja finder, but Rogueben had some good logic, I thought, about why Primate would not be a ninja. Sure, Rogueben was scum, but he wasn't ninja. I'd rather lynch UA than Primate.Thesp wrote:Don't we already have several excellent suspects for scum?ooba wrote:So massclaim will probably help them avoid the townies and hit the other scum .. And will make sure we don't mislynch now tooWhy aren't we pushingthemwith votes and push them to claim?
So if the Pirate Finder investigates you, you'll come up guilty? Reason I ask is because they're alive, and the pirates are... well... not...UA wrote:First is, I'm a Miler, and every investigator will find me to be their bad guy. The second I will carry with me to the grave, because I'm still hoping for the chance for it to go off.
No. Claim it or die.UltimaAvalon wrote:I am Darth Vader, and the Dark Side grants me two passive abilities. First is, I'm a Miler, and every investigator will find me to be their bad guy. The second I will carry with me to the grave, because I'm still hoping for the chance for it to go off.
Opposed. Don't see the benefit, given that scum clearly have safeclaims. Sure, some scum might screw up and come up with overly-complicated roles, or roles that contradict others. But they'll do that if wagonned as well, and that allows for the possibility of catching scum without necessarily letting them know what all the town roles are.ooba wrote:Own Abilitycicero wrote:I'd like Ooba to answer this question: Did your own ability cause your predecessor to survive that lynch or was it something outside your control?
And i'd like to know where you and fonz stand about mass claiming ..
I see no reason to blithely assume there'sPrimate wrote:Yeah, I'm sorry about my lurking. Slipping back into bad habits. I'll make my case against you now.I'm leaning towards one of UA or Primate myself. I didn't like a lot of what Primate was pushing yesterday, and his sudden radio silence after being asked some follow-up questions felt like a cheap out card to play.
I'm against the mass-claim because we have two confirmed innocents in the game, one in the form of the pirate protector, and the other in the form of the vanilla townie. We out them, and regardless of how small the game is, the scumwillkill them instead of each other. If we run up the townie and the PP today, then I'll be in favour of a mass claim of the remaining people, but I just don't think the benefit outweighs the cost at this point.
Well, I'm not sure either. But that doesn't meanUltimaAvalon wrote:Brawl.
I been down with massclaim since Day 1. That being said, I dont see what CES is trying to get at withWith 3 dead finders, 2 dead and one obsolete protector, a dead vig, and a claimed dayvig, I'm not sure what else is left that we need to protect.CES wrote:If the mass claim gives us any insight into alignment, then that'll probably lead to scum killing the wrong people.
There's a substantive difference here. You're trying to make out that thereUltimaAvalon wrote:You argue semantics and continue to prove my point. ThanksThesp wrote:t;]
I like UA as scum even more now.
If we don't massclaim, we're not going to suddenly lose our head and lynch a townie who makes a strong claim. And again, the scum clearly have safeclaims.ooba wrote:I'd like to argue in reverse ..
Its in scum's best interests to shoot at each other tonight .. (As town is in already a bad position)
So massclaim will probably help them avoid the townies and hit the other scum .. And will make sure we don't mislynch now too
CES argument that the scum will hit the townies is wrong IMO ..
TL;DR.Primate wrote:PRIMATES BIG KISON POST.
How do you not have a means to defend yourself? You've been playing in a certain way; justify your actions. This just sounds like scummy whining.UltimaAvalon wrote:They're still backing me into a corner without giving me a means to defend myself.Lawrencelot wrote:your posts didn't look very protown throughout D1 and later, so you shouldn't be surprised that you're in anyone's scumlist.
Anyone claiming to have deliberately changed their playstyle, every single time I've encountered it in the past, is scum doing so to avoid lynch. If your normal style is, in your opinion, less 'town-friendly' than this style, why don't you play like this all the time?UltimaAvalon wrote:I dont like the way this is going, and its mostly my fault
I tried to drastically change my play style for the sake of this game, from my normal, chaotic, Asshat playstyle to a more passive, agreeable, hopefully more Town friendly style.
As opposed to other town roles, when generally you're going out of your way to help the scum?Half of this is because I got sick or arguing with people about stupid things Day 1, and half because of my role. Upon asking someone who's opinion I respect regarding the best way to play as a person with my role, the sage advice I received was "Be as Pro-Town as possible."
That's fine. It's even probably protown. It doesn't, however, mean that those opinions themselves aren't going to be scummy.So I tried giving my opinions, whether or not they went with the general Town consensus or not.
'I tried not to do anything that was lead to my lynch.' Also, this seems to directly contradictt your previous assertion that you'd say what you thought, regardless of what other people thought of it.If I realized I had no idea what I was talking about, I quickly shut up.If I began pinging any scumdars, I quickly shut up.
Trying not to antagonise... (holy shit, this post is scummy. The claim better be good.)I also avoided yelling at people for no reason, except in the case of Guardian. Back when there were still 15-20 players, it was working fine, but now everything is sorta collapsing around me
Meh, this is pretty hard to contextualise in isolation.Course, with Guardian being the only person who I thought was scum and actually was isn't helping me either.
WHAT! No f-ing way. You claim to have been down since day one, whilst in possession of a seriously scummy sounding role, and a power that becomes useless if it is known? Now such powers exist. But I find it inconceivable that you'd support a massclaim whilst in possession of one.I am Darth Vader, and the Dark Side grants me two passive abilities. First is, I'm a Miler, and every investigator will find me to be their bad guy. The second I will carry with me to the grave, because I'm still hoping for the chance for it to go off.
You haven't fullclaimed. Now you should have claimed sooner?In retrospect, I see I should've claimed a lot sooner, but I haven't really been under any amount of pressure all game, and I don't like claiming without reason.
That's demonstribly untrue, and I'd demonstrate it, if the rest of your contribution over the last few pages hadn't already convinced me you're scum.Who's scum?
Kison is still voting me, I think, because he believes I was against the Thesp testage, when I already stated it was the method of testing that I disagreed with
The Fonz has been sliding by, agreeing with people, and promising rereads
If you'd like to interpret it that way, then go ahead. You're wrong though. Its more of a "I don't care whether we do it or not, but I'll never oppose it" thing though.The Fonz wrote:Well, I'm not sure either. But that doesn't meanUltimaAvalon wrote:Brawl.
I been down with massclaim since Day 1. That being said, I dont see what CES is trying to get at withWith 3 dead finders, 2 dead and one obsolete protector, a dead vig, and a claimed dayvig, I'm not sure what else is left that we need to protect.CES wrote:If the mass claim gives us any insight into alignment, then that'll probably lead to scum killing the wrong people.
there definitely aren'tany town roles that still need to be hidden.
Also, does anyone else see 'I've been down since day one, but not pushing it' as scummy equivocation? As in, if you think it's pro-town, well, I'm down for it so I've got nothing to hide, but if you think it'll hurt the town, well, I'm not pushing it so don't blame me.
Which is another way of saying "Don't worry. We have reasons, and by the time we're pressed for them, we'll find out what they are, or even make them up if need be, but we'll go ahead and vote you anyway"The Fonz wrote:There's a substantive difference here. You're trying to make out that thereUltimaAvalon wrote:You argue semantics and continue to prove my point. ThanksThesp wrote:t;]
I like UA as scum even more now.isno reason for those attacking you. Thesp is suggesting there is, but some people just aren't vocalizing it.
But they don't say what actions are scummy. If no one says why UA is scummy, then there's nothing I can really do except sit here twiddling my thumbs.The Fonz wrote:How do you not have a means to defend yourself? You've been playing in a certain way; justify your actions. This just sounds like scummy whining.UltimaAvalon wrote:They're still backing me into a corner without giving me a means to defend myself.Lawrencelot wrote:your posts didn't look very protown throughout D1 and later, so you shouldn't be surprised that you're in anyone's scumlist.
Welcome to the Not Past. Also, my normal playstyle isnt appropriate for someone who will turn up scum when investigated.The Fonz wrote:Anyone claiming to have deliberately changed their playstyle, every single time I've encountered it in the past, is scum doing so to avoid lynch. If your normal style is, in your opinion, less 'town-friendly' than this style, why don't you play like this all the time?UltimaAvalon wrote:I dont like the way this is going, and its mostly my fault
I tried to drastically change my play style for the sake of this game, from my normal, chaotic, Asshat playstyle to a more passive, agreeable, hopefully more Town friendly style.
Not really. Look at the difference between me defending the Massclaim Day 1 argument, and me defending the "Let Thesp Vig Whoever He Wants To Vig" Argument. In regards to the massclaim Day 1, I'm merely an advocate of the Church of Pie, in that I believe in his teachings, but I dont know the logic behind them, and cant really argue and debate about them. On the Thesp Vig issue, I really believed that it should've been up to Thesp who to kill when prooving his claim rather than it being town-led, as it was my opinion and not Pie's.The Fonz wrote:'I tried not to do anything that was lead to my lynch.' Also, this seems to directly contradictt your previous assertion that you'd say what you thought, regardless of what other people thought of it.If I realized I had no idea what I was talking about, I quickly shut up.If I began pinging any scumdars, I quickly shut up.
Sure I would. Hiding my role was my biggest blunder this game. Had I claimed much sooner, or even had a massclaim occured, it could've been tested. We could've even put those red herring roles to use (Claus and Mars).The Fonz wrote:WHAT! No f-ing way. You claim to have been down since day one, whilst in possession of a seriously scummy sounding role, and a power that becomes useless if it is known? Now such powers exist. But I find it inconceivable that you'd support a massclaim whilst in possession of one.I am Darth Vader, and the Dark Side grants me two passive abilities. First is, I'm a Miler, and every investigator will find me to be their bad guy. The second I will carry with me to the grave, because I'm still hoping for the chance for it to go off.
I wouldn' have claimed my 2nd ability had I claimed earlier anyway, so meh.The Fonz wrote:You haven't fullclaimed. Now you should have claimed sooner?In retrospect, I see I should've claimed a lot sooner, but I haven't really been under any amount of pressure all game, and I don't like claiming without reason.