Mini 549 (Tarhalindur Mostly Mountainous) - Game Over

[Earwig]

I'm surprised SlySly tured out t be town. I was pretty sure he was scum, mainly based on the fact he used the term "pro-town" quite a bit. I had previously only heard scum use that term. :arrow:

[thenextepisode]

sorry, my internet has been out.
im at the local library, and my internet probably wont be functional til sunday.

[Johoohno]

Still waiting for everyone to chip in Day 2.

(A quick note though: I'm surprised of Mizzy's unawareness of Tamuz reason for dropping out of the game according to her last post.)

No time for a response to above mentioned note, I'm not at home and furthermore trying to fight out some stomach illness my son has gotten. Happy Easter to the rest of you.

[Mizzy]

(A quick note though: I'm surprised of Mizzy's unawareness of Tamuz reason for dropping out of the game according to her last post.)

I'm not a mind-reader.

[Battousai]

His reason was partly because of me and mainly of being "attacked" by Ecto. You probably missed the posts he made concerning it.

[Tarhalindur]

Rosso Carne, RangeroftheNorth, and Nyktorion have until Monday to reply to their prods.

I'm getting a little fed up with Rosso and Ranger - especially Ranger - after the number of times I've had to prod them. The next time they go for more than 96 hours without posting or indicating V/LA status, I won't bother prodding. Instead, I will just go looking for a replacement.

Fiftieth Vote Count (aka "this Vote Count looks distressingly familiar"):

Johoohno (1) - Jester

Not Voting (10) - Rosso Carne, Ectomancer, Earwig, Battousai (rep. ryan), Nyktorion, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode, johoohno

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Current Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

First Mod Deadline Review:

March 25, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M.

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[Nyktorion]

Randomness is of course a plausible explanation for SlySly's death. Another possibility would be that scum wants to create some WIFOM about Ecto's alignment (because of his exchange with SlySly at the end of D1), but as said, that would just be WIFOM. They might have of course also also been looking for some power role in him, but that seems not so probable in a mostly mountainus game.

Due to the modkill ending D1 and the lack of concrete information from the SlySly-kill (besides SlySly being town, of course), I guess we are in now in a very similar situation as we were before the night. However, I see one interesting difference, which is going in favor of RC: his "scumbuddy" Blackberry/Fat_Tony/mozsuggs was town.

[Battousai]

That's why I don't like pairs, now that we know blackberry was town, rosso appears more townish.

[Ectomancer]

That's why I don't like pairs, now that we know blackberry was town, rosso appears more townish.

Haven't gone back to look, but I wonder whether Rosso opposed, promoted, or ignored the possible tie to BlackBerry.

[Tarhalindur]

Rosso and Ranger have 48 hours to reply to their prods.

Fifty-First Vote Count (aka the "Get to Voting Already" Vote Count):

Johoohno (1) - Jester

Not Voting (10) - Rosso Carne, Ectomancer, Earwig, Battousai (rep. ryan), Nyktorion, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode, johoohno

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Current Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

First Mod Deadline Review:

March 25, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M.

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[Mizzy]

I'm seriously surprised that no one looked at my wall-o-text I feel unloved.

[Rosso Carne]

ummmmm.

hang on a sec.

[Rosso Carne]

vote:tne

[Battousai]

Thanks for the imput rosso, your such a valuable player with all your insight you provide us.

[Earwig]

vote:tne

Why? What is your reasoning?

For not providing reasoning, and general jask assery:

Vote: Rosso Carne

[Tarhalindur]

Ranger has 24 hours to reply to his prod.

Fifty-Second Vote Count:

Rosso Carne (1) - Earwig
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (1) - Jester

Not Voting (10) - Ectomancer, Battousai (rep. ryan), Nyktorion, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), RangeroftheNorth (rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode, johoohno

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Current Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

First Mod Deadline Review:

March 25, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M.

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[Ectomancer]

vote:tne

Why? What is your reasoning?

For not providing reasoning, and general jask assery:

Vote: Rosso Carne

Alright Lurkerwig, you've sat around for 23 pages. Are you sure this is the move? Humor me by recounting the past case against Rosso Carne. Surely your latest reasons are meant to sit upon that foundation, so I'd be interested in

your

interpretation of that foundation.

[Battousai]

I'm seriously surprised that no one looked at my wall-o-text I feel unloved.

Here's a cookie and some apple juice. Now, I did read your "wall-o-text", and I do find it to help bolster my support of a johoohno lynch. I still think Johoohno is scum and should have been lynched day 1 if it wasn't for the modkill. So I vote: johoohno now based on my previous opinions from day 1, and lack of responding to Mizzy's post (blame it on holidays but if he doesn't post soon I will add it as a blantantly not responding to the main accusations thrown at him by Mizzy)

VOTE: Johoohno

[Mizzy]

Here's a cookie and some apple juice.

SCORE!

[Tarhalindur]

Rangerof theNorth failed to respond to his prod and is being replaced by UnofficialRulerofEveryone (who had previously offered to replace), effective as soon as he posts in the thread. Thank you UROE!

In other news, I would really like to see more posting from players who have already read the thread. If posting doesn't pick up soon (before Wednesday, to be more accurate), April Fools' Day is going to be your final deadline. No joke!

Fifty-Third Vote Count:

Rosso Carne (1) - Earwig
thenextepisode (1) - Rosso Carne
Johoohno (2) - Jester, Battousai (rep. ryan)

Not Voting (6) - Ectomancer, Nyktorion, Mizzy (rep. Tamuz), UnofficialRulerofEveryone (rep. RangeroftheNorth who rep. Dean Harper), thenextepisode, johoohno

FoS Count:

Johoohno (1) - Mizzy

Current Deadline:

April 1, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M. (GMT -6)

First Mod Deadline Review:

March 25, 2008 at ~12:00 A.M.

Please take careful note of the deadline rules (Rule 9), as they will be more relevant from here on out.

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Hello all, will read the game later tonight and post comments.

[Rosso Carne]

serious about tne. hes scum.

[Johoohno]

When the thread got locked due to the modkill, I was actually in the middle of trying to post a very large post in response to you, Johoo. This was written before the end of D1:

Johoo:

Interesting that you are bringing up the same game that makes me think you might be scum in this one. Rosso is not acting any different now than he did then, and all three of us were townies. The only one I see as acting differently is you, which is why your posting bothers me so much.

I'm hardly defending Rosso, either. All I'm saying is that

in my opinion

, his play here is consistent with what I'd expect to see from him as a townie and that I don't think the case on him is very strong. I'm going to go over some of your case points in a moment, but I think you are over-reacting a lot and making some bad assumptions where it is dangerous to do so.

I truly hope that all the rest of you have gone back to said game to check for yourself to see who you believe in. I’ve earlier (post 533) said that Rosso acts differently (and said that that might be due to him being cop in that game, whereas he in this one is either scum or merely town). I also felt that Mizzy rushing to his defence is making her (and Rosso too) looking more scummy in my eyes! Once again, do check out the game yourself.

Also note that Mizzy (in post 532) is trying to get me lynched, and searching for others to join in, which is yet another indication of scummy behaviour.

Wait, how in the world did you come to THAT conclusion from my post? Trying to get you lynched? Searching for others to vote for you? HOW? I voiced my opinion because we have a deadline approaching and you are, so far, on the top of my scum list.

The conclusions you drew from a couple lines in a post I made are extremely reaching and very, very wrong. Your over-defensive nature coupled with an eagerness to get to night that you have shown makes me suspect you even more.

Mizzy is here interpreting my ideas in a way that fits her. I believe that she went after me because she saw me as an easy lynch and no one would have been very angry with her if I had been lynched and come up town the last day since so many believe me to be scum.

As I've said before (post 475) I strongly believe we need a lynch this first day. I'm currently voting SlySly, but am willing to swing my vote to either Mizzy or Rosso. I think that this is the way we need to work the last days before deadline to find a lynch that as many as possible believe to be scum.

Needing a lynch D1 is a given. Lynching who we think is scummiest is a given. This post of yours is a key example of attempting to look active without actually being active.



Yes, we need to choose a lynch target. That doesn't give you an excuse for blatantly trying to reach night sooner than needed. Longer days are pro-town, and the more discussion we get, the better it is.

Well, did we get a lynch day 1? Nope! I felt that we were heading that way and didn’t like that one bit. Therefore I said what I said and I still stand by it. And it is valid still, we need a lynch this day. I am not wanting to end the day prematurely but perhaps Mizzy can conjure up another mean for us to get the scum besides lynching them?

Now on to your "case" points against Rosso and Tamuz/myself:

• Tamuz (and Dean Harper) was the first ones to post (4) only minutes after the mod started the game. That MIGHT be an indication that mafia had talked things through and sent in their confirmations waiting for the game to start. (I know it would be more valid if I also saw Dean Harper/RangeroftheNorth as a possible scum partner, which I don’t at the moment.)

Wow, talk about WIFOM at its worst. This assumption is not only a complete stretch, but the fact that posting early is even coming under suspicion here is laughable. This shouldn't even be in your "case" let alone be the first point.

It’s in my case and it is the first point since the list is made in a chronological order (I’m sorry if I took that for granted, perhaps some of you are more accustomed to an order of importance). I don’t see it as the strongest argument, but together with the rest of the items on the list it gives some information and I put it in there to see if things like this also was noticed or important to anyone else. Since I’ve not played more than a handful games I’m still looking for angles (I’m not claiming to be a newbie, only that I don’t know all the possible takes yet).

• Seems to post only to appear active (post 84, 120 and 325) and sometimes it’s just about wordings (288).
• As I’ve said before he also wonders about the FoS-counts (post 94 which I talked about in post 202).

Both of the above case points are null-tells at best. Tamuz got replaced, so the fact that he was slightly inactive can be just as indicative of a busy schedule/what-have-you as it is of being scummy. You can't prove one way or the other. And since when is wondering about FoS-counts a reason to think someone is scummy? This is the first game I've seen FoSes counted in, so I wonder about it, too...it doesn't make me scummy, just curious about something I have never seen done before. Again, a null-tell.

And this is where Mizzy gets even more scummy by defending her predecessor. If I were to replace someone I would really read through the game, especially my predecessors posts, to make sure I have an inkling of why he or she acted in a certain way and how other reacted to it. Did Mizzy miss the entire conflict between Tamuz/Battousai/Ectomancer on page 18 and onward? In our earlier game together I got the feeling she was a thorough and clever player, but here I get the feeling she is avoiding that part only to build a stronger case against me.

• In post 191 RangeroftheNorth votes for me and Tamuz quickly shifts to me too (post 193 and 197) perhaps seeing me as a wagon that’ll build up quickly.
• Post 199 is a fishy post where he tries to give himself airs to avoid reading the game closely and focus on staying alive. Someone else has already said this, the point is not, for an individual townie, to stay alive (unless that would benefit the town).

Firstly, I agree with Ranger's logic, too. His post was well-written and well-thought-out and I cannot fault my predecessor for voting you. I don't like that he did so with so little content, but considering he was replaced for non-participation and inactivity, and I am not him, I can't be sure why he did it. However, I don't feel that you can contribute that to building a quick wagon.


I can also understand Tamuz's reasoning for not wanting to stand out too much. I, myself, have just gotten NKed for the 3rd time in rapid succession, and that makes it highly tempting for me to back off a bit because clearly, I am drawing too much attention. I don't like his lack of content, but again, considering that he got replaced for lack of activity, I can only see that as a small case point at best.

Once again she seems to either be oblivious of why Tamuz left the game or to want to sweep that under the carpet for her case against me.

• He is also against a Rosso Carne lynch 249 and asks for Nyktorion and Jester’s reason for said lynch. Here I see two possible things. Perhaps he wants to lift up this issue once more with the help of two, at that time, very townish players to come to a lynch (seeing their reasons and then agreeing with them). It could also be that they are scum pairs (Rosso and Tamuz). In this game a lot of people have connected players with one another and perhaps Tamuz feels that this one will only be one among many and won’t be picked up. The last point is in that case even more shadowed by adding more bussing issues in the thread in post 266.

Since when is being against the lynch of someone you think is pro-town scummy? And since when is asking for a reason for a lynch scummy? If anything, both of those are obvtown-tells.

I know that these arguments are not in plain sight but that does not make them unrealistic or unbelievable!

I am however not yet ready to go vote. I want more people calling in adding content.

@ Rosso: Could you give us some information as to why you are so sure of TNE’s scumminess?
@ TNE: Input please! A scum list or at least a scum candidate would be very helpful.

@ Battousai:

So I vote: johoohno now based on my previous opinions from day 1, and lack of responding to Mizzy's post (blame it on holidays but if he doesn't post soon I will add it as a blantantly not responding to the main accusations thrown at him by Mizzy)

Are you not reading my posts? I have earlier said that I’ve got limited access for yet some time and to add insult to injury I’ve been fighting off family illness (also presented earlier).

@ Everyone: It feels as if no one is really engaged to this game and that is very hurtful for the town. If anyone doesn’t want to play, ask for a replacement and leave.

I also realize that I might be a necessary sacrifice in order to get on with the game since some of you (including some of my scum suspects) are leaning towards me being scum. I won’t vote for myself (self hammering is almost always a stupid move for town) so you need to bring up enough voters to get rid of me.

I am pretty sure that Mizzy is scum. What about voting her off today and if she turns out town you can lynch me (I guess that enough of you wanting to hang me will survive the night).

[Mizzy]

I truly hope that all the rest of you have gone back to said game to check for yourself to see who you believe in. I’ve earlier (post 533) said that Rosso acts differently (and said that that might be due to him being cop in that game, whereas he in this one is either scum or merely town). I also felt that Mizzy rushing to his defence is making her (and Rosso too) looking more scummy in my eyes! Once again, do check out the game yourself.

Tunnel-visioned, much? There's no proof that Rosso is scum so of course I'm not going to suspect him or anything just based on his playstyle. You have yet to show me proof. I am still waiting; I'm willing to listen to your case if you have one.

Mizzy is here interpreting my ideas in a way that fits her. I believe that she went after me because she saw me as an easy lynch and no one would have been very angry with her if I had been lynched and come up town the last day since so many believe me to be scum.

Isn't that what I just said you were doing to me? Just because you believe something doesn't mean it's true. You've done some pretty scummy things in this game and posted some questionable content. Of course I suspect you're scum.

Well, did we get a lynch day 1? Nope! I felt that we were heading that way and didn’t like that one bit. Therefore I said what I said and I still stand by it. And it is valid still, we need a lynch this day. I am not wanting to end the day prematurely but perhaps Mizzy can conjure up another mean for us to get the scum besides lynching them?

I'm gently reminding you that the post you are replying to was written before D1 ended. And of course we need lynches; I fail to see how you get out of my posting that I think we need to end the day in a way other than a lynch and I would appreciate it if you would stop putting words in my mouth.

It’s in my case and it is the first point since the list is made in a chronological order (I’m sorry if I took that for granted, perhaps some of you are more accustomed to an order of importance). I don’t see it as the strongest argument, but together with the rest of the items on the list it gives some information and I put it in there to see if things like this also was noticed or important to anyone else. Since I’ve not played more than a handful games I’m still looking for angles (I’m not claiming to be a newbie, only that I don’t know all the possible takes yet).

The reason I don't accept that case point as a point is because it's a null-tell; which means it's not a town- or a scum-tell and shouldn't be used as either.

And this is where Mizzy gets even more scummy by defending her predecessor. If I were to replace someone I would really read through the game, especially my predecessors posts, to make sure I have an inkling of why he or she acted in a certain way and how other reacted to it. Did Mizzy miss the entire conflict between Tamuz/Battousai/Ectomancer on page 18 and onward? In our earlier game together I got the feeling she was a thorough and clever player, but here I get the feeling she is avoiding that part only to build a stronger case against me.

So, I'm supposed to (after carefully and thoroughly reading over my predecessor's posting, thank-you-very-much) just let you use null-tells and potentially false meta-data to attempt to lynch me? Tamuz was inactive and didn't lend much in the way of content to the game...so he was replaced. Anti-town actions like those are not auto-scum actions. He didn't really, in my eyes, do anything scummy except not help town. Which I am attempting to remedy.

Once again she seems to either be oblivious of why Tamuz left the game or to want to sweep that under the carpet for her case against me.

How should I know the real reason someone left a game? How can anyone possibly know but the person who left?

@ Everyone: It feels as if no one is really engaged to this game and that is very hurtful for the town. If anyone doesn’t want to play, ask for a replacement and leave.

This I whole-heartedly agree with. Players need to get off their asses and contribute to this game more.

I also realize that I might be a necessary sacrifice in order to get on with the game since some of you (including some of my scum suspects) are leaning towards me being scum. I won’t vote for myself (self hammering is almost always a stupid move for town) so you need to bring up enough voters to get rid of me.

I am pretty sure that Mizzy is scum. What about voting her off today and if she turns out town you can lynch me (I guess that enough of you wanting to hang me will survive the night).

I'm pretty sure (someone correct me if I am wrong) that a mislynch is bad regardless of who the player is. If you want me to think you are town, then this post of yours didn't help one bit. You're acting strangely aggressive and over-defensive

at the same time

. It's all very OMGUS of you, honestly.

[Jester]

Interesting. Mizzy's attack on Johoohno gets addressed in a point-by-point way, whereas mine (and my day two vote) continues to be subject only to the pathetically weak defense in 416. Johoohno, you've also not responded in any way to Slysly and Tamuz shredding your own attacks against them.

One of those two is now

proven

town, and you've not said a word about it. I'm curious. Where do you think your case against SlySly went so wrong?