Um, not to answer for him, but drawing attention to the fact that Stark hasn't posted yet is a helpful thing for Viking to do. I'd strongly encourage everyone to try and keep track of who's lurking, and to bring it to the town's attention like this.vollkan wrote:So I take it this means you have completed a statistical survey which reveals that people who don't post are scum? I'd love to see the results if you have an excel chart or something.Viking wrote: and yet stark has yet to post in this game major fos.
Pretty much just disagree with those completly. Especally on day 1, hunches are fine, and looking for town tells and figuing out who is town is just as important as figuring out who is scum. Sure, you'll be wrong sometimes, but that applies just as much to scum tells. (Of course, in a cult game, some people's alignments might change, so town tells might be less useful here then in other games, but that's a different issue)vollkan wrote: I am exceptionally skeptical of "town tells". Recent experience in House afia has exacerbated this.
...
3)Any player who justifies a vote/FoS/declaration of 'suspicion'/etc. on one of the following:will receive a stern demand from me that they give objective reasons for their vote/FoS/declaration of 'suspicion'/etc. Should they fail to do so, my expectation is that the vote/FoS/declaration of 'suspicion'/etc. will be dropped. If not, then they can expect their % ranking to increase.
- a) 'Hunch';
b) 'Gut';
c) 'Feeling';
d) 'Belief'; or
e) Anything that has a meaning similar to those of the above
I don't entirely disagree with you on this one, but, to hold you to the same standard you are demaning of others, I take it this means you have completed a statistical survey which reveals that people who act in a chaotic fashion are scum? I'd love to see the results if you have an excel chart or something.4)If you want to play in a chaotic fashion, that's fine. However, if I can't understand what you are doing I will demand an explanation and justification. If you don't provide me with one, your % rankingwillincrease.
Disagree with those two completly. Lurking, especally, is a scumtell, and better yet, it's an even better cult leader tell in this situation.5)Any person who accuses another person of being scum for one of the following:
- a) Over-reaction;
b) Lurking;
...
Can expect their % ranking to increase.
Blazerunner wrote:Well, I have nothing else to talk about the accusations made over me. But feel free to keep them going for as long as you want, and I will keep responding to them for as long as I have arguments. I hope no one says "scum, youre deviating from your accusation" for what Im going to ask right now.
I was wondering about 2 things:
First, there was only one body tonight, and we have the SK and the vigilante. There are 3 and only 3 things that may have happened:
1)The vigilante didnt try to kill, and SK killed DrippingGoofbal
2)Both of them took a shot, but one of them was blocked, and the other killed Dripping
3)Both of them took a shot, but one of them hit a "tough" target (SK or a recruiter), and the other killed Dripping
I really dont know: Should the vig have tried to kill? I would like to hear everybody's opinion here. It is a guesswork, but can eventually get us anywhere.
The other thing: can TSS explain what is the "perfectly good reason for focusing on the armlx bandwagon rather than the mnowax one"? This is no accusation whatsoever, I already said he didnt NEED one, and depending what the reason is, he shouldnt even tell them. I can think of 3, but Id like to hear from him, since he mentioned it. But I wont take it as a scumtell if he doesnt explain, I can imagine town reasons for that too
Huh?NN wrote: I think we just identified Vollkan's Rule 12.
Okay, but I have myself been in situations where I have not wanted to post as town, purely because my ideas are not solid and I don't want to make a crappy post that draws suspicion. Reading to the point of being able to post takes time, and it's reasonable that someone might not post.Viking wrote: Vollkan, here's my perspective (and this was before the mod posted that he was having technical difficulties). When the mod says that a player has been picking up his prods, but yet not posting, that appears scummy to me since it says that he has been available to post but yet does not want to do so. If the mod hadn't said that, I would have simply considered it grounds for replacement.
Absolutely, I agree. Lurkers should be named and shamed. BUT, lurking is not a scumtell. It doesn't merit a FoS.Yosarian2 wrote: Um, not to answer for him, but drawing attention to the fact that Stark hasn't posted yet is a helpful thing for Viking to do. I'd strongly encourage everyone to try and keep track of who's lurking, and to bring it to the town's attention like this.
I don't want a pass. I just want to be clear about where I stand on things.Yosarian2 wrote: 'll mention here that I think that a large number of Volkan's rules are poor town stratagy. I don't see the need to get into a detailed stratagy debate just yet, at least not until he invokes one of his rules in a way I disagree with, but just for the record, these are the parts of his rules that seem pretty much completly wrong to me. And I will also note that, general rules or not, if he tries to invoke those rules in such a way as to harm the town I will consider it to be a scumtell; you're not getting an automatic meta-pass on stuff by just making a list of rules right now, Volkan.
When I get a hunch, I try and look for evidence to back it up. If none surfaces, I abandon it.Yosarian2 wrote: Pretty much just disagree with those completly. Especally on day 1, hunches are fine, and looking for town tells and figuing out who is town is just as important as figuring out who is scum. Sure, you'll be wrong sometimes, but that applies just as much to scum tells. (Of course, in a cult game, some people's alignments might change, so town tells might be less useful here then in other games, but that's a different issue)
No, I don't have a chart.Yos wrote:I don't entirely disagree with you on this one, but, to hold you to the same standard you are demaning of others, I take it this means you have completed a statistical survey which reveals that people who act in a chaotic fashion are scum? I'd love to see the results if you have an excel chart or something.V wrote: 4) If you want to play in a chaotic fashion, that's fine. However, if I can't understand what you are doing I will demand an explanation and justification. If you don't provide me with one, your % ranking will increase.
I've seen scum lurk. I've seen town lurk. I've wanted not to post as scum. I've wanted not to post as town. If I can identify strategic lurking, then some cause for suspicion may arise, but lurking in and of itself is a nulltell for me.Yos wrote: Disagree with those two completly. Lurking, especally, is a scumtell, and better yet, it's an even better cult leader tell in this situation.
If you are a vig, where did the "I know blaze killed DGB!" come from?mnowax wrote: Note the italicized. He makes sure that he lets us know that both a vig and a SK exists. This is not an open game, were not sure of the existence of the roles. How did he find out this information? No i am not a tracker. No i am not a watcher or alarmist. I am a Vig. I didn't kill last night because i wanted to make sure i had a kill for night one of this game. Therefore, There IS a SK in this game as well as me, and although there will be an attempt to kill me, i will finish off Blaze in the night. If i happen to get recruited, i will spout the name of my leader immediately, So if you don't want me around, you must kill me. I only say this because were getting close to lynch( i believe) and i want all my information out on the table before i die.
Well, I do tend to think lurking is always a scumtell, although of course like all scumtells it's not perfect. But like I said, I think it's even more crucial in this game, because the role that has the greatest motivation to stay in the background and not be noticed is the cult recruiter, which is also the role we most want to lynch. If we don't go after lurkers and semi-lurkers as a town, and I mean go after them agressivly and lynch them when it seems approperate, we could easily lose to a quet cult leader who lets his cult members do all his bandwagoning and attacking and such for him.vollkan wrote:I've seen scum lurk. I've seen town lurk. I've wanted not to post as scum. I've wanted not to post as town. If I can identify strategic lurking, then some cause for suspicion may arise, but lurking in and of itself is a nulltell for me.Yos wrote: Disagree with those two completly. Lurking, especally, is a scumtell, and better yet, it's an even better cult leader tell in this situation.
Okay, but I have myself been in situations where I have not wanted to post as town, purely because my ideas are not solid and I don't want to make a crappy post that draws suspicion. Reading to the point of being able to post takes time, and it's reasonable that someone might not post.Viking wrote: Vollkan, here's my perspective (and this was before the mod posted that he was having technical difficulties). When the mod says that a player has been picking up his prods, but yet not posting, that appears scummy to me since it says that he has been available to post but yet does not want to do so. If the mod hadn't said that, I would have simply considered it grounds for replacement.
Because those that claim pro-town recruitable roles, especially power roles that don't harm the SK such as the cop, create massive WIFOMs as instead of dying and being death confirmed, they can become scum. Non-recruitable roles claiming simply lowers the target pool for the cult(s) to hit recruitables.springlullaby wrote:Yosarian, I'm not getting why claiming is bad, please re-explain it for me.
We have only your word for it that you're a vig. If you're not, you won't vig him, and he won't die regardless of whether or not he should be lynched.I am a vig, and if blaze was pulling a gambit as a leader, then he get s lynched tomorrow, because he wont die tonight if i vig him.
I tend to disagree.I am not stupid, ya know. I do know what i am doing
Armlx already explained this, but yeah, the point was that if there are two cult recruiters and a SK, the odds are very high that anyone who claims a recruitable power role will be recruited and/or killed shortly after. So assuming we believe mnowax's claim today, the problem is that since he claimed so early, the longer the game goes the less we can trust him since by claiming a role potentially dangerous to the cult he just inceased the odds of getting recruited by the cult.springlullaby wrote:Yosarian, I'm not getting why claiming is bad, please re-explain it for me.
Two things. firstly it doesnt matter if you believe i am a vig. i wont last the morning without becominga recruit or dead, in which it will confirm me if i am killed. secondly, if he is still alive tomorrow, you have your lynch target.the silent speaker wrote:Another thing to consider is that sometimes lurkers need to be lynchedsimply to weed out deadwood that is preventing the active fraction of the town from having a lynch quorum without resorting to lurkers (who aren't voting anyone) or scum (who aren't voting their own). But generally I agree with Yosarian.
We have only your word for it that you're a vig. If you're not, you won't vig him, and he won't die regardless of whether or not he should be lynched.I am a vig, and if blaze was pulling a gambit as a leader, then he get s lynched tomorrow, because he wont die tonight if i vig him.I tend to disagree.I am not stupid, ya know. I do know what i am doing