Cultafia: Game over


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:05 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

Ok caught up.

Mno claims that Blaze killed DGB

Blaze denies this.

Blaze claims he was culted last night and was a RB that targeted TSS.

I agree with Nab’s thought (206)on who the cult leader could be. (Like Nab) no offense Blaze, but I cant see how it would be a good move for anyone to recruit you first. Unless they are simply new…

at this point in the game..

Is Blaze being truthful? I am not seeing why the SK would pull this gambit to save his ass, it wouldn’t work in the end. Of course, I am not seeing a recruit pull this sort of gambit either, unless of course he wanted to put as much false information (in blaze’s words “mess”) at there as possible….At this point, I think Blaze should be a vig hit.

Is Mno being truthful? I asked him early in the game if there was any kind of wiggle room if we lynch Blaze and his claimed turned out to be false..he said no.

Mno then claims VIG.
mnowax wrote:


Note the italicized. He makes sure that he lets us know that both a vig and a SK exists. This is not an open game, were not sure of the existence of the roles. How did he find out this information? No i am not a tracker. No i am not a watcher or alarmist. I am a Vig. I didn't kill last night because i wanted to make sure i had a kill for night one of this game. Therefore, There IS a SK in this game as well as me, and although there will be an attempt to kill me, i will finish off Blaze in the night. If i happen to get recruited, i will spout the name of my leader immediately, So if you don't want me around, you must kill me. I only say this because were getting close to lynch( i believe) and i want all my information out on the table before i die.
SO basically your “knowledge” of Blaze killing DGB was based on jack shit? Really, explain to me, how you were certain that Blaze killed last night? Also explain to me how Blaze has knowledge that a vig and a SK exist.

Why did you claim vig? How was that going to help the situation? At any rate, I believe Mno's claim(now), but think that Mno probably doesnt have a firm grasp on the game of mafia.

At this point, I think that Blaze is newbie recruit. He should be vigged or Sked tonight.

Blaze, what are your thoughts on Mno’s claim? WHy did you target TSS last night? Why did you feel like it was pro-town to target TSS last night?
Skruffs wrote:
Fos : Armlx, Yosarian2, Blazerunner
springlullaby wrote:I'm liking Skruffs suspicions.
Spring, what do you like about Skruff’s suspicions?

Especially with your vote on vollkan…

also
unvote
, still not liking viking posts, but dont think the vote needs to be there at this point.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:37 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Skruffs wrote:Posts 19, 20, and 21 are all horrible.
Fos : yosarian, armlx, curiouskarmadog

Drippinggoofball was SHOT, which is the MO of both the vig (if there is one) and the sk (if there is one). Neither of these roles are assured, but all three of these players in their first (or thereabout) posts seem to indicate the opinion, at least ,that there may not be a vig and there is an SK.

Fos fos fos. The only reason anyone could know that there is an SK and not a vig is if a cult recruited the vig last night.
Huh? Many people don't vig kill night 1, while all SK's should kill night 1, so if I see a night 1 kill I tend to think that it was more likely cause by a SK then by a vig, although I'm pretty sure I did point out that either one was possible. Is that really so irrational?

And I didn't assume there was a SK, I said there was probably a SK.

[quote[
Secondarily, I think 2 cults AND an sk seems like a bit much; if they were successful, then we just started the game with 33% scum and if we lynch wrong today, we wind up going to day 2 with 7/14(or 1 or 12) which is 50% scum which means an almost guaranteed scum win. I don't think a sane mod would use a setup which even, theoretically, COULD put the town in lylo day 1. [/quote]

Actually, I think having a SK in this setup actually increases the town's chance of winning over not having a SK in the setup, since the SK is unrecrutable and likely to kill cult recruiters or memebers.

And I also didn't say that there are two cults in my opening post. I think it's likely, mostly because the rules of this game and the discussion of the MD thread the mod linked to seem to imply that it's likely.
Yos playing ignorant, speaking as a group, building town support for himself.. not liking it... fearmongering ...
Ok, I never "play ignorant", and I certanly didn't this game. I have no idea what you mean by "speaking as a group" or "building town support for myself", unless you mean me talking about what is good for the town, which I always do when I'm trying to figure out what stratagy is good for the town, which, again, I always do. C'mon now, you've played enough games with me that you should know by now that this is what standard pro-town-Yos play looks like.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:40 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

Unvote; Vote: Springlullaby


It seems to me that Skruffs is being hypersuspicious right now. That's a good thing -- it keeps us honest, but I don't like SL's blind agreement. Especially because it was fairly clear that Skruffs had yet to read any significant portion of the game (his posts only referenced the first couple of pages, and his post on Blaze failed to acknowledge his claim). Looks like classic "cause mayhem and confusion" scumtactics.

I see the case on Occult and think some of it is good, but I really think we should pressure SL before moving forward.
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:48 am

Post by mnowax »

THERE IS A SK! yes i am *THE VIG* i am the only vig. I have no reason to lie about this. I made an assumption regarding someone else's post. What else is new around here? Granted i was Totally wrong, but my roles is out, and we have found a Former Rb'er and a now a cult recruitist.
Sure one more time for fun.
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:53 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

mnowax wrote:THERE IS A SK! yes i am *THE VIG* i am the only vig. I have no reason to lie about this. I made an assumption regarding someone else's post. What else is new around here? Granted i was Totally wrong, but my roles is out, and we have found a Former Rb'er and a now a cult recruitist.
How can you be certain that there aren't any other vigs?
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:58 am

Post by Norinel »

Vote Count 12


Occult [4] (Blazerunner, the silent speaker, mnowax, Yosarian2)
Blazerunner [2] (aioqwe, Skruffs)
vikingfan [1] (armlx)
mnowax [1] (Greggo)
vollkan [1] (springlullaby)
springlullaby [1] (NabakovNabakov)

Not Voting [6]: curiouskarmadog, mypenguinkat, Occult, vikingfan, vollkan, stark

8 to lynch
Last edited by Norinel on Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:51 pm

Post by stark »

Hey comrades, I'm doing a re-read right now, and will post my thoughts shortly.

Straight up.
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:35 pm

Post by stark »

Noting on page 2, Blazerunners 3 post back-peddle session.

However, I disagree with votes on him on the grounds of his faulty logical reasoning. I thought the same way he did until reading what others had wrote about recruit-lynching.

In post 53, Yos whips out a multi-paragraph defense from a simple query from armlx. Either he's defensive, or is rather passionate about OMGUS. I'm thinking the last one.

Greggo totally jumped on the Blazerunner wagon in post 59.

(I'm sure that you all have already been over this at the present point in the game, but I'm just noting things as I go along.)
mnowax wrote:Is there a reason why you killed dripping goofball?

Vote: Bladerunner
Man, I hate when people get cryptic in mafia games. If mnowax is a watcher, then he should take into account that any number of other roles could have targeted DG last night. This does not make blazerunner a cult leader.

Also noted, malthusis totally backed that up, and then disapeared.

Vikingfan in 99 jumps on the Blazewagon, with reasoning of "Sounds good to me". -2 dexterity.

Springlullaby offers fluff after big old disapearance in 120-121

In 124, Blazeman right out sets himself opposite mnowax on the see-saw of justice. A bold move, no doubt, but both sides are misinformed. Both of you could simply be townies fighting eachother in the dark. Please don't be so quick to condemn others.
mnowax wrote:i cannot by any means let go of my role information, but i can tell you that it wasn't because i am a cop and have a guilty on him. The only way i would get a guilty on you ( like almost everyone has said) is if you were in a cult. Even if i got a guilty on you, i couldn't be sure that you killed anyone. So there must be a reason why i know. And i Guarantee that if he comes up as town ( which i believe is a remote chance) i will absolutely explain everything the next day, and everyone can decide what to do with me.
We're not stupid, mnowax. One of two things are true:

You're a watcher. You watched blazerider night 0. BR to DG. Your conclusion = BR is scum.

WRONG because of the many possible other roles BR could be


Or

You're lying.


Noting once again malthusis' renewed support for mnowax.
the silent speaker wrote:
It's unclear whether his evidence is just a tell from one of Blaze's posts, or is the result of role-based information possessed by mno.
Well, mnowax did say that if Blazerunner is town that he should die in Blaze's place. If all he had were tells, no matter how convincing, he wouldn't put himself in front of the firing squad like that, I don't think (whether he's town
or
scum[/i]).

What I have on Blazerunner, OTOH,
is
tells. I am very confident of them, and more so with mnowax's assertions of role information backed up by tells of his own, but nothing like a mod-revealed smoking gun. My tells are generic to scum. For my money Blaze could be SK or Cult Leader (taking mnowax into account rather more likely SK, but those aren't
my
tells).
wricky-rewind? Something went over my head, comrade.


Post 174 by Nabakov^2: I appreciate the dialogue, but you're still on the assumption that the only possible explanation for Blaze going to DG's house would be to kill her. I believe this to be incorrect.

Thank you Yos in 177. I think that while the mno-blaze debate is nice, we should also be exploring other possible scum targets, and not devote our entire energy to solving their case. It's very possible that two townies are simply fighting against eachother, or even worse, two power-roles.
vikingfan wrote:Personally, I'm wondering how the cult leader(s) would be playing this (presuming that neither mnowax nor blaze is one). would they be more likely to hold back and blend in the crowd, or go heavily after the group? I'm thinking blending in, for the moment...the cult leader wants to avoid suspicion at all costs, especially day 1.
The cowbell rings on this post for me. I might be alone there though. Stepping into the boots of scum I find slightly suspicious.

Greggo hops on the popular wagon once again in 190
mnowax wrote:ionce again i can not say what tipped me off today. If you believe that DGB is a SK that needs to stay alive, then i will tell every one who i am, and why are the reasons why i konw what i know and surmised.
Your crypticizm hurts my heart so much, mnowax.

Blown away by Blazeriders big confession post. What is odd to me is why blaze didn't out his cult leader. Is this forbidden?

In regards to lynching Blazerunner, I think we should save our lynch, and have our vig, or ask our SK politely to kill him off.

mnowax totally jumps on it after one post by armlx. A little more dialogue would be best I think.

mno, mno, mno... You do know that a cult could just kill you, right?

Vikingfan, explain this business in regards to why you keep bringing me up?
vikingfan wrote:To the point where they don't post AT ALL? that just seems more scummy than townish to me. Not even any thoughts on the game at all to this point...it certainly seems to merit the FOS that I gave.

And agreed 100% with Yos.
Did you completely miss the part where it was noted that I had computer problems? And I understandt that you might be adressing other people than me, but that has not been made excedingly apparent as your intention.
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:08 pm

Post by aioqwe »

Reading page 8. I will post when I'm more caught up.
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:00 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

Stark wrote: Blown away by Blazeriders big confession post. What is odd to me is why blaze didn't out his cult leader. Is this forbidden?
Why would he do that? Claimed or not, he's still cult.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:15 am

Post by armlx »

NabakovNabakov wrote:
Stark wrote: Blown away by Blazeriders big confession post. What is odd to me is why blaze didn't out his cult leader. Is this forbidden?
Why would he do that? Claimed or not, he's still cult.
I'm pretty sure it breaks the pretty golden rule of "Play to win" as well.
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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:42 pm

Post by Blazerunner »

armlx wrote:
NabakovNabakov wrote:
Stark wrote: Blown away by Blazeriders big confession post. What is odd to me is why blaze didn't out his cult leader. Is this forbidden?
Why would he do that? Claimed or not, he's still cult.
I'm pretty sure it breaks the pretty golden rule of "Play to win" as well.
Yes.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:20 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

vote springlullaby,


I see you have posted since my posed questions to you. I understand being busy, but please let us know if that is the case.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:23 am

Post by vollkan »

Occult wrote: I still personally think that there is a chance that Blaze is a leader. His claiming is a gambit, the only thing that claim did was take him off the lynching block. There was a discussion about lynching recruits earlier in the game and the majority seemed to lean towards, Don't lynch recruits.

Now, blaze using this claim to buy him some time and recruit a few more people isn't a very far-fetched theory. He is not a confirmed recruit, but he isn't town and we shouldn't trust him. I'm saying maybe we should play this as we'd rather be safe then sorry.
This in itself gives rise to a good reason for a CR to claim - the "We can't trust you" factor as increasing the risk of CR lynch, thereby protecting the CL. Of course, the viability of this is questionable in a situation where there may be two CLs.
mnowax wrote: THERE IS A SK! yes i am *THE VIG* i am the only vig. I have no reason to lie about this. I made an assumption regarding someone else's post. What else is new around here? Granted i was Totally wrong, but my roles is out, and we have found a Former Rb'er and a now a cult recruitist.
Okay, I am trying to imagine you as the vig: You concoct a wild hypothesis about someone being the SK and then blunder in and make stupid accusations about it, without even considering the overall merits of lynching a SK or anything. I just don't buy this. It's assuming a pretty enormous degree of recklessness to your part.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 am

Post by mnowax »

The only thing that needs to happen is i stay alive into the night. after that, it doesnn't matter i will be able to kill tonight, and take the consequences of claiming today.
Sure one more time for fun.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:44 am

Post by vikingfan »

Stark, at the time, the mod had not MENTIONED that you had computer issues, thus I was thinking that you were deliberately lurking. That's why I kept bringing you up.

V/LA tomorrow through late Sunday night.

I really don't understand either blaze or mno's play to this point.
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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:55 am

Post by Blazerunner »

curiouskarmadog wrote: At this point, I think that Blaze is newbie recruit. He should be vigged or Sked tonight.
That is said. But I only did what I did because I thought my game was awful and would die night one anyway, for that awful game. Perhaps I misjudged that, perhaps I would survive, and this wouldnt have been necessairy.

I did what I did to give town info and to try to save my ass in a crazy way.
curiouskarmadog wrote: Blaze, what are your thoughts on Mno’s claim? WHy did you target TSS last night? Why did you feel like it was pro-town to target TSS last night?
I think Mno is not telling the truth. Whan he said I killed DGB, he sounded too certain. I said that because I thought all the roles he described where in the game. Even if I where the SK or the vig, and had killed DGB, I couldnt be sure that the other role existed, as there was only one (suposedly mine) kill.

unvote. vote:mnowax


I targeted TSS because I thogut it would be good. There was a chance of helping town, a chance of messing uo town and a chance of being neutral (hitting someone W/O night actions). But recruiters night actions are way more important for the recruiter than most town night actions (specially when town power-roles had a very good chance of hitting a useless target with their actions, and cultists a very hight of hitting a good target).

Besides, if the block
per se
was neutral, I would have the advantage of collecting a small piece of info. Perhaps when TSS claimed late game, myself knowing he was blocked night one could help checking his claim.
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:15 am

Post by NabakovNabakov »

Blazerunner wrote: I did what I did to give town info and to try to save my ass in a crazy way.
This is what I don't get and why I still have vestiges of doubt about the claim. You are a cult recruit, you win with the cult, you
don't want
to help the town, yet you seem to have very confused motivations in this regard.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:18 am

Post by Blazerunner »

stark wrote: Man, I hate when people get cryptic in mafia games. If mnowax is a watcher, then he should take into account that any number of other roles could have targeted DG last night. This does not make blazerunner a cult leader.

==============================================


We're not stupid, mnowax. One of two things are true:

You're a watcher. You watched blazerider night 0. BR to DG. Your conclusion = BR is scum.

WRONG because of the many possible other roles BR could be


Or

You're lying.
Your reasoning is not completely right on this point. If mnowax is a watcher, then he knows ALL people who targeted DGB last night. So, if he had seen me and another person visiting DGB, you would be right, and he would be wrong to say I am definetely the killer.
But if he had seen only me visiting DGB, then he could be sure I was the killer.

And there is the possibility that he is really doing this for that stupid post where I said as if I was 100% sure there was both a vig and a SK. If this is the case, then he is just getting to conclusions with weak evidence, not lying. But I dont think this is the case, as he took a long time before quoting that post of mine. He could have said that earlier.

But, as I said, I visited TSS. And now, mnowax claimed vig. So, unless he really accused me only for that post, he is not liar/watcher. He is liar/liar
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:35 am

Post by stark »

armlx wrote:
NabakovNabakov wrote:
Stark wrote: Blown away by Blazeriders big confession post. What is odd to me is why blaze didn't out his cult leader. Is this forbidden?
Why would he do that? Claimed or not, he's still cult.
I'm pretty sure it breaks the pretty golden rule of "Play to win" as well.

You're completely right. I made the assumption that outing yourself as cult = cult reveal. My mistake.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:37 am

Post by stark »

Blazerunner wrote:
stark wrote: Man, I hate when people get cryptic in mafia games. If mnowax is a watcher, then he should take into account that any number of other roles could have targeted DG last night. This does not make blazerunner a cult leader.

==============================================


We're not stupid, mnowax. One of two things are true:

You're a watcher. You watched blazerider night 0. BR to DG. Your conclusion = BR is scum.

WRONG because of the many possible other roles BR could be


Or

You're lying.
Your reasoning is not completely right on this point. If mnowax is a watcher, then he knows ALL people who targeted DGB last night. So, if he had seen me and another person visiting DGB, you would be right, and he would be wrong to say I am definetely the killer.
But if he had seen only me visiting DGB, then he could be sure I was the killer.

And there is the possibility that he is really doing this for that stupid post where I said as if I was 100% sure there was both a vig and a SK. If this is the case, then he is just getting to conclusions with weak evidence, not lying. But I dont think this is the case, as he took a long time before quoting that post of mine. He could have said that earlier.

But, as I said, I visited TSS. And now, mnowax claimed vig. So, unless he really accused me only for that post, he is not liar/watcher. He is liar/liar

Double post powers.

My fault. I wrote this as I was reading, and did not go back to edit my writing as mno claimed.
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:17 pm

Post by armlx »

I'm currently trying to figure out if viking's actions are scummy like any scum's actions would be or fall more along the lines of a mafia group, meaning wouldn't be a leader/Sk and more likely be a recruit.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:12 pm

Post by curiouskarmadog »

armix, your thoughts on spring?
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:34 pm

Post by armlx »

He my second choice. He's acting a lot more like how I would expect a cult leader to act, as well as lurking more here than other games I'm in with him.

On second thoughts, if I have doubts about vikingfan's behavior being leaderish, why the hell am I not voting spring.

Unvote, Vote spring
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:15 pm

Post by aioqwe »

First, I would like to say sorry. I'm using an older laptop right now and it crashed 5 times yesterday while I tried to finish up reading and responding. So as much I love y'all, I gave up.

I don't know if this was asked/answered but MOD: were leaders allowed to talk to their recruits last night?

unvote
vote: occult


Seems like Blaze's cult leader. His first 11 posts are very content light. And he kindly sprinkled in some defense for Blaze. That's wonderful leader action don't you think? Stay on the low while trying to make sure your new recruit doesn't get lynched to quickly. However after, Blaze claims this guy is all for Blaze's death. EVEN with all of the disusion on how we should focus our efforts on killing the leader. He continues to insinuate that there is a possibility of Blaze being the leader trying to pull of a gambit that the recruit stays alive longer than the leader. On the otherhand, as a leader, occult would want to get rid of Blaze so that he can't be associated with the leader.

Mno, assuming you are telling the truth now, you are a vig. We don't know the number of anything in this game as stated in the roles post. For all you (or anyone) knows, the entire town could be comprised of vigs. Second, we (and you) don't know if the DGB was killed by the SK or a second vig. The OP and roles post, tends to suggest however, that our town has 2 cults and 1 sk.

I specifically re-read occult a bit because he stood out the most during my read. I've finished reading the thread but I want to take the oppurtunity to look at everyone's post by themselves. I may come back and do a summary on everyone if I feel that it is necessary.

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