Open 60: The New C9 - Game over!

[Rigel]

No one appears to be here to read this, but I am going to be on vacation starting tomorrow, for a week. During that time, I won't be able to access the forum, but I'm not thinking that a heck of a lot is going to change, so I'm going to leave my vote on Spacecase regardless. I honestly can't believe Spacecase hasn't claimed yet, which is supporting my suspicions of his scumminess--he doesn't have to make up a fake claim until he's asked, and this gives him more time to do so.

At any rate, I won't be here, so I am assuming that I will come back to either Night 3 or early Day 4, if only because the mod will probably end up deadlining the game at this rate.

[Shteven]

Agreed. The fact that spacecase hasn't been lynched yet wouldn't bother me if there were people voting for other people, or any other viable wagon forming. But no one* is voting for anyone but spacecase, and spacecase isn't lynched. Together, not a good thing.

*if I recall there's 1 non-spacecase vote.

[-TinVision-]

Sixth Vote Count of the Day

Spacecase - 5 (Shteven, farside22, Rigel, Oman, dahill1)

Phate - 1 (Cipher)

Not voting - 8 (

LaptopGun, Spacecase, The Fonz, somestrangeflea, vollkan, MadCrawdad, Phate

)

With 13 alive, it is 7 to lynch.

[Oman]

Wagon slowing.

Makes me wonder.

I might unvote.

[The Fonz]

. I honestly can't believe Spacecase hasn't claimed yet, which is supporting my suspicions of his scumminess--he doesn't have to make up a fake claim until he's asked, and this gives him more time to do so.

I don't know, but I find this comment extremely scummy itself. It's not scummy AT ALL that spacecase hasn't claimed. Claims are bad things, and should not be made unless there's some huge town advantage to be gained (cop with guilty) or that player's lynch is otherwise inevitable (he's at -1 and someone is threatening to hammer, or a deadline's impending).

It probably doesn't mean anything, since spacecase is likely scum himself. But if he were to be lynched and come up town...

Agreed. The fact that spacecase hasn't been lynched yet wouldn't bother me if there were people voting for other people, or any other viable wagon forming. But no one* is voting for anyone but spacecase, and spacecase isn't lynched. Together, not a good thing.

*if I recall there's 1 non-spacecase vote.

What do you mean by 'not a good thing?' Do you think it means SC is scum, and scum are refusing to bus him? Or do you think it's a 'bad thing' because it means SC is likely innocent?

[MadCrawdad]

@Shteven

(snip)So, to everyone else: Do large, obvious wagons that stall a few votes short of lynch imply the mafia aren't lynching their partner or that they don't want to be caught killing another townie (or insert 3rd option)? Why hasn't this wagon reached 8, and what, if anything, can be inferred? Or am I trying to infer too much from players who are not voting simply because they're inactive?

Shteven, something with your line of thinking seems a little scummy to me...

You imply that by not voting Spacecase, more than half the town looks scummy. Nevermind the fact that your options mention that SC could be scum or innocent...basically those not voting Spacecase are scummy:

Option 1: Those not voting SC are scum, and don't want to lynch their partner.
Option 2: Those not voting SC are scum, and are afraid to lynch a townie.

Regardless of whether he is guilty or innocent, those not voting SC look scummy to you. That line of thinking looks a little scummy to me.

@Fonz

Fonz, could you address my question in post 594 when you get a chance?

[The Fonz]

Sure, I didn't notice your post. Was reading through in chronological order, so my 'announce intention' post was directly in response to his 'I don't mind being lynched.' The second time you pointed it out, well, I guess i was caught up in the discussion I was having with Kab and didn't notice it.

I mean, spacecase's vote didn't feel like a hammer: it didn't mention that it was a hammer, Kab hadn't been given chance to claim, etc.

[The Fonz]

*Caught up in the discussion and overlooked it. Lousy repetition.

[LaptopGun]

FOS Phate. I'd like to hear more from him. This also so goes back to something we talked about a *long time ago* . Phate was one of the 3 Justin talked about. I think I'm gonna run down the list on that before I worry about other things.

[Shteven]

To Fonz: I'm really not sure if a stalled wagon means the person is more likely to be scum or town. I wish I could say either way - the uncertainty is starting to give me cold feet. I do agree with your other point, at 5 votes and not moving, those 3 votes are a long way from coming and there isn't a need for him to claim yet.

To MadCrawdad: That's not what I was trying to imply. I see nothing wrong with not voting for spacecase. My post made two points, you've ignored the other one. Let me bold the one you skipped:

The fact that spacecase hasn't been lynched yet

wouldn't bother me if there were people voting for other people

, or any other viable wagon forming.

But no one* is voting for anyone but spacecase,

and spacecase isn't lynched.

Together, not a good thing

.

I'd be glad to see people saying they think spacecase is town and player X is scum. But no one is. People just aren't accusing anyone. The town is collectively lurking. THAT I have a problem with. Really, I thought that was pretty clear.

[dahill1]

how about if someone puts spacecase at L-2 or L-1 for a claim, but we don't lynch yet?

[MadCrawdad]

To Fonz: I'm really not sure if a stalled wagon means the person is more likely to be scum or town. I wish I could say either way - the uncertainty is starting to give me cold feet. I do agree with your other point, at 5 votes and not moving, those 3 votes are a long way from coming and there isn't a need for him to claim yet.

To MadCrawdad: That's not what I was trying to imply. I see nothing wrong with not voting for spacecase. My post made two points, you've ignored the other one. Let me bold the one you skipped:

The fact that spacecase hasn't been lynched yet

wouldn't bother me if there were people voting for other people

, or any other viable wagon forming.

But no one* is voting for anyone but spacecase,

and spacecase isn't lynched.

Together, not a good thing

.

I'd be glad to see people saying they think spacecase is town and player X is scum. But no one is. People just aren't accusing anyone. The town is collectively lurking. THAT I have a problem with. Really, I thought that was pretty clear.

I was addressing post 595, not post 601

how about if someone puts spacecase at L-2 or L-1 for a claim, but we don't lynch yet?

Spacecase is at L-2...

[dahill1]

I do agree with your other point, at 5 votes and not moving, those 3 votes are a long way from coming and there isn't a need for him to claim yet.

oops sorry this mixed me up

but how about pressure L-1?

[Cipher]

FOS Phate. I'd like to hear more from him. This also so goes back to something we talked about a *long time ago* . Phate was one of the 3 Justin talked about. I think I'm gonna run down the list on that before I worry about other things.

I don't particularly think that Phate was Justin's investigation, but if that makes you vote him then go for it.

I want to hear from those who aren't voting anyone and haven't yet commented on Phate. Where do you stand?

[The Fonz]

Guys, this game is stalling for a very obvious reason. Spacecase is lurking.

He's not answered half the case against him, he hasn't scumhunted all game, and now he's holding the game up unnecessarily.

Mod: prod spacecase

It appears he hasn't posted anywhere onsite for four days. If he shows up and doesn't provide one hell of an explanation, I'm voting him.

[vollkan]

but how about pressure L-1?

I am none too keen on the way you are trying to build up this wagon by calling for a "pressure L-1". No significant increase in pressure will result from L-1 as opposed to L-2.

Spacecase has begun lurking, which suggests avoidance. That in itself may or may not be scummy, but the fact that things are moving so slowly adds further cause for concern.

[dahill1]

but how about pressure L-1?

I am none too keen on the way you are trying to build up this wagon by calling for a "pressure L-1". No significant increase in pressure will result from L-1 as opposed to L-2.

Spacecase has begun lurking, which suggests avoidance. That in itself may or may not be scummy, but the fact that things are moving so slowly adds further cause for concern.

i'm not trying to rush the lynch..spacecase is lurking and avoiding, and i want pressure for that exact reason

[Spacecase]

Im not trying to lurk and avoid trust me that makes for a boring game and somewhat pointless for me. I'm really lost on the whole claim thing thoguh.

[Shteven]

I was addressing post 595, not post 601

Then please see 601 for your answer? I can see how you might think 595 was throwing suspicion on those who hadn't voted for spacecase, but this was not intended. In the last line I gave the most likely reason as inactivity, not scumminess:

Or am I trying to infer too much from players who are not voting simply because they're inactive?

People are very, very welcome to vote for someone other than spacecase. However, this day has been going on now for exactly 1 month. It started on feb 26th. I really think people should have some idea of who they think is scum and should be actively voting for someone by now. And yet, as of the last vote count, there are 6 people voting for anyone and 8 people not voting at all. This is what my complaint in post 601 was over. My post 595 was wondering if we could infer something about Spacecase's alignment from his wagon having slowed down, but in the end I don't really think it's possible. It becomes WIFOM fairly easily.

[The Fonz]

Vote: Spacecase

Claim now, please.

Claiming means to say what your role is.

[vollkan]

Im not trying to lurk and avoid trust me that makes for a boring game and somewhat pointless for me. I'm really lost on the whole claim thing thoguh.

So what exactly are you trying to do?

After dropping off in activity, you return and make a post saying that you aren't trying to lurk.

Don't you have

anything

meaningful to add?

You've gone from craplogic -> gut -> lurking. This really doesn't look good.

If you are town, your motivation should be to help. So, here are my suggestions:
1)

CLAIM

- See Fonz's explanation of the process above. Tell us your role, dammit.
2)

OPINIONS

- Tell us who you think is scum (preferably with something more helpful than 'gut'.)

Vote: Spacecase

Claim now, please.

Claiming means to say what your role is.

Do you think that putting an under-pressure who is looking disgruntled at L-1 prior to a claim is really a good idea? He's in the "critically at risk" category for self-hammers.

[MadCrawdad]

FOS Phate. I'd like to hear more from him. This also so goes back to something we talked about a *long time ago* . Phate was one of the 3 Justin talked about. I think I'm gonna run down the list on that before I worry about other things.

I don't particularly think that Phate was Justin's investigation, but if that makes you vote him then go for it.

I want to hear from those who aren't voting anyone and haven't yet commented on Phate. Where do you stand?

The name rings a bell, but I can't place the face....who is Phate?

I'd love to hear anything from Phate regarding the points that people have made....

Lots of folks I'd like to hear more from:

Phate
Spacecase
farside22
perfectiondoesnotexist

[Shteven]

Wagon slowing.

Makes me wonder.

I might unvote.

I haven't gotten any real direct answers to my musings over "does a stalled wagon imply anything about the player's alignment" yet. Obviously it's pretty situational and a wagon could fail for many different reasons. You can't really answer it in general for all wagons in all games, but perhaps people here could answer in terms of this game, this spacecase wagon.

Your post seems to imply you think the wagon slowing DOES provide you useful information. What information, and why?

[Oman]

No, boredom.

[The Fonz]

Vote: Spacecase

Claim now, please.

Claiming means to say what your role is.

Do you think that putting an under-pressure who is looking disgruntled at L-1 prior to a claim is really a good idea? He's in the "critically at risk" category for self-hammers.

Only scum have a reason to self-hammer. And you should know my position on self-voting town players by now.