Mini #553: Over!

[Qman]

First Vote Count of Day 2!

Votes required:

5 to lynch

Not Voting:

8, Imat, Matt_S, Khelvaster, Oman, destructor, massive, Mert, Ting =)

Talk about half a loaf.

[massive]

Holy bejeezus.

I must say that it is interesting that CoolBot, the Mafia Godfather, started the "named but not Fellowship" train ... which makes me wonder if, in fact, that Mafia DID have safe roleclaims all along. Which makes destructor's initial comments about safeclaims all the more suspicious. Do we still have a destructor?

In that case, I

vote destructor

. I don't see his name in the post above me though ... but he's in the list on the front page ... oh! I see eljcko in the list above me, who we lynched yesterday.

Fixed.

[Qman]

It is an ineresting result, not really sure what to do with it at the moment. I'm just praying A.) One of those kills was a vig kill and B.) The Vig didn't kill Tallitha. 3 killing grops would just be... uuuughhhh

[Matt_S]

I'm curious why the cop wanted to kill me to find out my alignment
However, I notice that Imat was one of the people who joined the Talitha wagon, after our friendly SK. I'll have to reread this later, because I'm overdue for rereads in lots of other games right now.

[Imat]

Ummm...3 deaths? Wow, thats changes things. I was expecting a straight up Mafia versus Town game, the SK scares me. However, the third kill confuses me. I really don't want anybody to claim, but I think we either have another SK or a messed up Doc. I have no idea how common CPR Docs are, or if anybody would blindly protect as one, but I don't think the Mod would put in three killing groups either...

And Matt, why Talitha wanted to kill you to find out your alignment in general was one of the reasons I was looking at her. But I'm glad nobody listened to me, I have a habit of finding Scumminess in Cops it seems...

So, next question...Do we want to figure out who may have killed who, or will that become a useless discussion? It may yield results, but it may also take time and not deliver any new information...

[Matt_S]

I don't think we can learn a whole lot from guessing who killed who. However, I will say that I think CoolBot was killed by crazy_vlad just because I have a hard time seeing a vig kill CoolBot.

[Khelvaster]

Vote: Matt_S

I looked at CoolBot's accusations, and it looks to me like he had it in for Matt_S fairly hard because he thought the unnamed fellowship was a safeclaim. This would be a really bad thing for scum if it got out, so that's probably why he was killed.

[Matt_S]

Vote: Matt_S

I looked at CoolBot's accusations, and it looks to me like he had it in for Matt_S fairly hard because he thought the unnamed fellowship was a safeclaim. This would be a really bad thing for scum if it got out, so that's probably why he was killed.

?

Coolbot,

Mafia Godfather,

killed night 1

???

[Imat]

Yeah, Khel, I think you misread something. Talitha was the Cop, Vlad was the SK, CB was the GF. Your logic makes no sense unless you made a mistake somewhere...

[ting =)]

So we're down a cop, an SK, a godfather and a townie, and there's eight of us left. What do you guys think would be a probable set up? I'm afraid I've never played with an SK or a godfather and I'm not quite sure how the game would balance out.

[ting =)]

EBWOP: I don't know what the remaining 8 roles might be in order for the game to be balanced.

[massive]

There should be, most likely, two Mafia left. And assuming our rogue vigilante will knock off with the killing of random people, we should have a good shot.

I'm actually fairly sure Qman is a killer. I need to go back and re-read the thread and remember who he replaced before I can figure out if he's a good killer or a bad killer.

[massive]

I'm fairly sure Qman is mafia. His posts on this page are of the "hey, I'll refer to my nightkill as 'interesting' to throw people off the trail!" variety, which I recall is one of Jeep's Easy Scum Tells, which points me at him being responsible for one of the kills. Then, I looked back and I noticed that after he replaced in, his big point was to try and get us to stop talking about previous roles, which is important information for the town. He continues on with it to the point that CoolBot makes a point of voting for him and telling him that this is important information, the point of the vote being to make sure his scum partner notices and lays off.

unvote
vote Qman

[Qman]

I'm fairly sure Qman is mafia. His posts on this page are of the "hey, I'll refer to my nightkill as 'interesting' to throw people off the trail!" variety, which I recall is one of Jeep's Easy Scum Tells, which points me at him being responsible for one of the kills. Then, I looked back and I noticed that after he replaced in, his big point was to try and get us to stop talking about previous roles, which is important information for the town. He continues on with it to the point that CoolBot makes a point of voting for him and telling him that this is important information, the point of the vote being to make sure his scum partner notices and lays off.

unvote
vote Qman

The quoted post is bullshit. Thank you.

I'm well aware of Jeeps Scum Tells and I by and large find them useless when applied to people past their 2-3rd game.

I never let off dropping the flavor bullshit, thank you for noting that. Oh wait.. you didn't. Coolbot had nothing to do with my attitude about the retarded name-fwllowship-theme that was striped. I still think it's retarded, Coolbots death only reinforces that.

I've said and still believe that worry about the removed flavor/names is bullshit because I was sure there were traitors in the fellowship. Guess what I was right; a mod would have to be a retard to align all the town in a 9 person fellowship. The entire idea is full of it.

And frankly due to something out of my control, my post today should be disregarded. (That of the half a loaf).

I do find it interesting that we lost the GF, Cop, and SK in one night. Thats actually pretty damn good for the town overall (two scum, two town). I'm hoping our vig (I'm assuming vig because 5 scum (a 2-2-1 split) is just nuts) didn't cap the cop, but i don't think the vig should claim either.

[massive]

I've said and still believe that worry about the removed flavor/names is bullshit because I was sure there were traitors in the fellowship. Guess what I was right; a mod would have to be a retard to align all the town in a 9 person fellowship. The entire idea is full of it.

Not only do you miss the point of the continued use of flavor as an aid to the town, you have no proof that you are "right" when you say "there were traitors in the fellowship." Calling yourself "right" doesn't make it so.

And if you are aware of Jeep's Scum Tells, why would you use one?

[Qman]

I've said and still believe that worry about the removed flavor/names is bullshit because I was sure there were traitors in the fellowship. Guess what I was right; a mod would have to be a retard to align all the town in a 9 person fellowship. The entire idea is full of it.

Not only do you miss the point of the continued use of flavor as an aid to the town, you have no proof that you are "right" when you say "there were traitors in the fellowship." Calling yourself "right" doesn't make it so.

And if you are aware of Jeep's Scum Tells, why would you use one?

In the context of Coolbot saying he was named fellowship, and turning up scum, i'll believe i was right. the setup of all town fellowship is retarded and you can't convince me otherwise.

As for the Jeep Scum Tells, I consider them by and large useless, so I don't care if you follow them, I don't ascribe to them. If I start posting and playing according to all the "OMG THIS IS A SCUM TELL" lists out there I wouldn't even bother posting.

[Matt_S]

In the context of Coolbot saying he was named fellowship, and turning up scum, i'll believe i was right. the setup of all town fellowship is retarded and you can't convince me otherwise.

Scum fakeclaiming fellowship != traitors in the fellowship

And still waiting for Khelvaster to respond.

[Qman]

In the context of Coolbot saying he was named fellowship, and turning up scum, i'll believe i was right. the setup of all town fellowship is retarded and you can't convince me otherwise.

Scum fakeclaiming fellowship != traitors in the fellowship

And still waiting for Khelvaster to respond.

As of yet, we can't prove it was a fake claim either, it's just pedantic WIFOM, and doesn't matter with the striped flavor.

[destructor]

Vote: massive

I'm sure I had a reason... case to follow.

[Qman]

Vote: massive

I'm sure I had a reason... case to follow.

And that case is?

[destructor]

The way he kept going after Matt_S and his reaction after he was 'confirmed' innocent. Also, this from Post 99:

But even if you go the extra step and believe that he had a safe role claim, he still is running a gambit that could possibly out the entire rest of his team --

there's been no night, so he hastn't talked to his supposed cronies to find out if their safe role claims would fit into the gambit.

In games where I've been scum I've been able to talk with my buddies pre-game. massive implied here that he

knew

the Mafia couldn't in this one.

The rest of that post, compared to his vote on me today, is worth noting. Why does he vote for me, suggesting that scum may have safe claims? Why does he point at me for suggesting this, when there was another player, Khelvaster, who

asked for a mass nameclaim?

massive went out of his way to defend Khelvaster, who for all we know could be scum with a safe claim. What made him so sure he's town? And why has he not mentioned this now, in light of Coolbot's reveal? Instead, he uses this to attack me, makes no mention of Khelvaster, and now he's using some weak WIFOM argument against Qman, perhaps realising the inconsistency of his initial attack on me.

Actually, reading his case on Qman, he's being inconsistent again.

Then, I looked back and I noticed that after [Qman] replaced in, his big point was to try and get us to stop talking about previous roles, which is important information for the town.

But you were just saying that you thought scum had safe claims? Why would Qman be suspicious for trying to stop role name discussion other than scum

not

having safe claims? First

I

am suspicious because scum might have safe claims, and now

Qman

is suspicious because scum might not have safe claims. This doesn't add up.

[ting =)]

mod:

How do the kills stack in this setup? If A sends in a night action to nk B, and B sends in a night action to nk C, will B and C both die, or will only B die and C will live?

---------

I don't think the Mod would put in three killing groups either...

We

have

three killing groups. There were 3 nks. The mafia obviously have one. Depending on how the kills stack, crazy vlad probably made the other nk. That leaves one more nk unaccounted for.

...I have a hard time seeing a vig kill CoolBot.

Why? Do you think coolbot looked townie-ish?

I'm actually fairly sure Qman is a killer. I need to go back and re-read the thread and remember who he replaced before I can figure out if he's a good killer or a bad killer.

We already have a dead SK. Do you think the game would be balanced if we had 2 SKs?

I'm fairly sure Qman is mafia.

This came later. Do you think he's mafia or a vig/sk? I just want to know where you stand.

[massive]

In games where I've been scum I've been able to talk with my buddies pre-game. massive implied here that he

knew

the Mafia couldn't in this one.

Well, since *I* didn't get a night action before the game started, I assumed the game started with Day One. So naturally I would assume that the Mafia would NOT get to talk to one another. That follows logically and the fact that you are not only (a) suspicious of me for it but (b) suggesting that the Mafia could have night-talked before the game started actually makes YOU look more suspicious, not me.

The rest of that post, compared to his vote on me today, is worth noting. Why does he vote for me, suggesting that scum may have safe claims? Why does he point at me for suggesting this, when there was another player, Khelvaster, who

asked for a mass nameclaim?

massive went out of his way to defend Khelvaster, who for all we know could be scum with a safe claim. What made him so sure he's town? And why has he not mentioned this now, in light of Coolbot's reveal? Instead, he uses this to attack me, makes no mention of Khelvaster, and now he's using some weak WIFOM argument against Qman, perhaps realising the inconsistency of his initial attack on me.

I went after you because of CoolBot. Knowing that *I* was a named role but not in the Fellowship, I read CoolBot's hints to mean exactly what he intended, and my actions followed that logic. I asked questions, consistently, about the names and makeup of the town, believing that CoolBot was like me -- named but not Fellowship. I had no reason to doubt that until this morning, when he turned up dead. The problem there is that CoolBot is the one who introduced the idea of there being "named but not Fellowship" into the game -- up until that point, it was assumed by most that the town was divided into two groups: unnamed vanilla, and named Fellowship. I don't believe he would have put himself out there if he didn't feel confident that he could survive a bandwagon to roleclaim. And since he intimated that he was "named but not Fellowship" on the first page, I now believe that he may have been given a safeclaim.

Also from the first page, you have consistently indicated that you believe that the Mafia have safeclaims. I still believe that it is VERY unusual to be given a safeclaim. You appear to think otherwise. I think it's because you knew the Mafia had safeclaims -- you had one in your own PM.

Actually, reading his case on Qman, he's being inconsistent again.

Then, I looked back and I noticed that after [Qman] replaced in, his big point was to try and get us to stop talking about previous roles, which is important information for the town.

But you were just saying that you thought scum had safe claims? Why would Qman be suspicious for trying to stop role name discussion other than scum

not

having safe claims? First

I

am suspicious because scum might have safe claims, and now

Qman

is suspicious because scum might not have safe claims. This doesn't add up.

Qman didn't get his original role information in his replacement PM, and therefore had no idea if the scum had safeclaims or not.

ting

: I think Qman is mafia. I think destructor is mafia as well.

[Matt_S]

Why? Do you think coolbot looked townie-ish?

Compared to the other two victims, yes.

[Imat]

I don't think the Mod would put in three killing groups either...

We

have

three killing groups. There were 3 nks. The mafia obviously have one. Depending on how the kills stack, crazy vlad probably made the other nk. That leaves one more nk unaccounted for.

I though perhaps we'd have some kind of CPR Doc role, where he can either protect or kill. In a game this small I wouldn't expect to have three killing groups, so I thought of something else that may work.