Lowell wrote:Imat, I still don't buy the Near case nor those who are supporters of it. Vote stands.
Lowell wrote:Also I'm relatively sure I did this already, but:
unvote, vote Imat
Ok, I can see that you really want to keep your vote on me, so much so that you both confirm your vote and then revote, but you still haven't answered my questions regarding what you thought was off about 340. You've stated you don't buy the Near case, but you don't say which part(s) you don't agree with. Care to elaborate? Also, I think you sorta mentioned this but not really, is there a specific reason you picked me out of the Near lynch crowd? You're making it seem like you have heavy evidence against me, yet I don't see very much of it in your recent posts. You not mentioning your case against me makes it awfully hard to defend myself properly...
Willing to replace in any game, have some background experience but haven't gotten all of the specifics down, ie. abbreviations and other terms...
I'm inclined to take Sammich dropping as a fairly major point against him. It's not an airtight scumtell, but bailing under heavy pressure day 1 does seem to be more of a scum thing than a town thing, and I'm inclined to hold it against him. If he does come out being scum, I think the odds of Near being scum are considerably lower. I'm seeing more bad OMGUS than malice in his posting as of late.
Just got back from my mission trip, and I'll be gone at a wedding until Sunday. Sorry I haven't been keeping up as much as I should, but I should have more of a chance after this weekend.
I actually agree a lot with Lowell's reads, excepting Near. Him and Sammich top my scum list, although I suppose they're both unlikely to be scum.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to ask this. But when you said sammich didn't pick up his prod, do you mean it is still in your outbox or it is in your sentbox but he didn't reply. Thanks.
Sammich didn't open the PM.
.::] Vote Count [::.
Near (3)
- Y, Imat, gorckat
Imat (1)
- Lowell
Niv (2)
- Near, jerrubaal
Not Voting (5) - Ripley, Incognito, Niv, Mizzy, XReyoX
Before i do my read tomorow, i would like to point out this: I am not sammich, and whatever he may have done, I am not him, and will not be able to defend against anything he has done. although you all probally allreddy knew that.
It's never too late to dig yourself out of a hole with the truth, unless you've been investigated as scum. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet. So get to work helping us track down your fellow dirtbags! ~ MBL
XReyoX wrote:The most significant wagon was Near’s, since page 5, with at least 3 votes all the time and occasionally going up to 4 or 5. Sammich on the other hand had never gotten over 2 votes. Looking at the vote count, it fits perfectly with my suspicion that Sammich is scum whilst Near is innocent. By pushing Near to his lynch, and stopping people from looking at Sammich, the scums can be killing two birds with one stone. Not to mention that the two wagons are somewhat imbalanced, in my point of view. If Near is scum, I’d believe the attack against him would have been less vigorous (perhaps this is not the exact word to use, but I guess you know what I mean), every single point he has presented was accused by at least one person, at some point, to be scummy.
This very argument has been at the back of my mind much of the time though I can't remember if I stated it in so many words. There have been so many people attacking, sniping at and voting Near and wagons against him twice grew quickly to L-1. Whereas as XReyoX says it was very hard for wagons against Sammich to get off the ground no matter what he did. It's really difficult to keep track of the state of the voting because of the large number of invalid votes, and also self-votes and repeated votes that have happened, but if my records are right Sammich got to 3 votes briefly when Near revoted him in Post 89. Imat then unvoted him in Post 99 saying he was at L-1 (it was actually L-3). He appeared to reach 3 votes again with gorckat's Post 282 which came immediately after XReyoX's vote, but in fact XReyoX's vote was not counted and remained on Mp (later Mizzy). I don't think XReyoX ever realised this because when he unvotes in Post 398 he seems to believe it's Sammich he's unvoting. So while there seems to have been considerable confusion over the number of votes Sammich has had, I think the answer is that he was once briefly on 3 real votes (ie not counting his own, which only added to the confusion.)
Anyway, I agree with the sense of what XReyoX has said in this extract. The strength and frequency of the attacks on Near, and the general willingness to trundle his wagon right up to the lynching post, did a great deal to influence me in his favor. Sammich by contrast enjoyed considerable licence to mess about as he pleased. He could ignore Near's questions and Near would just get into deeper trouble for repeating them.
Like jerubbaal I'll be able to resume more thorough reads and posts after the weekend.
Ripley, I was really confused too. I started doing the vote count myself but then I decided to just single out the mod's official vote count instead in that bit of analysis.
I'll be out with my friends this weekend, so I would be posting little/none until monday.
Since I don't believe in Near's case, I don't have a lot of reasons to vote Niv (Sammich). Since I think Near is scum, I have a reason not to.
It's not illogical that people attacking Near won't vote Niv.
I'd like to hear from Niv. As shown using meta, Sammich isn't a good player. He might have just got into a mess by playing really bad.
No. Its not illogicall that people attacking one poerson won't vote for the other, obviously. However, if they are both town, I'd believe sammich's wagon would be as big, if not bigger than Near, this is my current view. This leads to the question of whether it's because sammich is scum, therefore he is low on the wagon count, or Near is scum and his buddies are kind of bussing him, or both, or neither, etc and etc... It is usually the case that the more someone post, the more potential scumtell he is going to make (everything, you do or not do, in most cases, can be manipulated as a scumtell). With all these, and that is the reasons, I feel there is a need to discuss. I think most people have been focusing on Near only, or mainly, all through the day and that is not a good thing. Even a townie, when concentrating on one person, with that person being scum in mind, would start cherrypicking, or at least I think I do.
Well... I believe Near was the main issue of the day and almost everybody had something to do with him, therefore killing him would give the town a lot of info about most people.
Since I believe him to be scum, I really believe it to be the best action we can make at the moment.
@Y: Forget Near's case on Sammich- what about Reyo's summary? He thoroughly brought together each point against him.
Both Near and Sammich look scummy, but not aligned with each other. Everyone's been involved one way or the other with Sammich, too. From a purely information perspective, either one will give us fat to chew.
XReyoX wrote:No. Its not illogicall that people attacking one poerson won't vote for the other, obviously. However, if they are both town, I'd believe sammich's wagon would be as big, if not bigger than Near, this is my current view. This leads to the question of whether it's because sammich is scum, therefore he is low on the wagon count, or Near is scum and his buddies are kind of bussing him, or both, or neither, etc and etc... It is usually the case that the more someone post, the more potential scumtell he is going to make (everything, you do or not do, in most cases, can be manipulated as a scumtell). With all these, and that is the reasons, I feel there is a need to discuss. I think most people have been focusing on Near only, or mainly, all through the day and that is not a good thing. Even a townie, when concentrating on one person, with that person being scum in mind, would start cherrypicking, or at least I think I do.
One thing we should keep in mind though, is that, Sammich has never voted against me. Even when I was accusing him pretty hard with the dice investigation, and he probably thought he could lynch me by voting me, he didn't... I wonder why.
. I'm willing to build on this bandwagon, and I too think his quitting under pressure is major scum-tell. Usually townies don't quit under pressure, if for no other reason so they can post a posthumus "Bah, I told you!" post.
. I'm willing to build on this bandwagon, and I too think his quitting under pressure is major scum-tell. Usually townies don't quit under pressure, if for no other reason so they can post a posthumus "Bah, I told you!" post.
I've seen townies flake or even self-hammer under pressure. Flaking in and of itself is a null-tell (but huge pain in the rear), for me.
The reasons to vote him stand independent of his flaking.
It is very interesting that once some one noticed there's no pressure on Niv, his wagon started to grow. It seems like people don't want to look illogical.
What bugs me even more is that Sammich was obviously a bad player. The kind of player which gets himself killed due to bad play. Now that Niv's here, we should try and see what he has to say. Trying to shut up a player before he can get himself out of the hole his bad predecessor left him, is scummy.
I think that any one willing to lynch Niv before hearing his thoughts is anti-town.
FoS jerubbaal and Lowell
for that. The third player voting Niv is Near, which I see as the best lynch at the moment.
Y wrote:It is very interesting that once some one noticed there's no pressure on Niv, his wagon started to grow. It seems like people don't want to look illogical.
What bugs me even more is that Sammich was obviously a bad player. The kind of player which gets himself killed due to bad play. Now that Niv's here, we should try and see what he has to say. Trying to shut up a player before he can get himself out of the hole his bad predecessor left him, is scummy.
I think that any one willing to lynch Niv before hearing his thoughts is anti-town.
FoS jerubbaal and Lowell
for that. The third player voting Niv is Near, which I see as the best lynch at the moment.
I agree with Y on one point. I don't think we should lynch Niv until he finishes his read and posts his thoughts. We should give him this chance. I however don't think a few votes on Niv is a bad thing. Just don't lynch him until he has had a plenty of time to respond.
In the meanwhile, Y's channel vision of wanting to lynch me hasn't changed. Y, who's the second person you want to lynch?
The term is "tunnel vision" I believe, unless you're referring to something different.
Again Lowell, you have yet to answer my recent questions. I can easily see why Y FoSed you, you don't really explain your votes too well. I don't know if that is Scum trying to mislead Town or Town trying to keep their arguments to themselves, but I'd say you need to start doing a better job of explaining your votes.
Willing to replace in any game, have some background experience but haven't gotten all of the specifics down, ie. abbreviations and other terms...
Imat wrote:Again Lowell, you have yet to answer my recent questions. I can easily see why Y FoSed you, you don't really explain your votes too well. I don't know if that is Scum trying to mislead Town or Town trying to keep their arguments to themselves, but I'd say you need to start doing a better job of explaining your votes.
I have to agree with Imat here. Lowell, you were really pushing hard on the idea of Imat being scum and now that Imat came at you with a number of questions, you've refused to answer those questions and you seem to have conveniently switched your vote from your main target to Niv for probably the most dubious reason of them all (his flaking out of the game). Can you elaborate on why Niv is more deserving of your vote than Imat at this point?
[ooc][color=black]patrickgower2006 (8:12:03 PM): all beer tastes same to me
patrickgower2006 (8:12:07 PM): like dish water
If you see Patrick drinking dish water, please try and stop him. Friends don't let friends drink dish water.[/color][/ooc]
Near wrote:In the meanwhile, Y's channel vision of wanting to lynch me hasn't changed. Y, who's the second person you want to lynch?
I'm pushing one lynch, but I'm not tunnel visioned. I see Lowell as a good option, for not giving enough reasons nor explanations of his actions.
XReyoX seems to write a lot without drawing too much attention, so it seems somewhat weird (I know, "too townie" argument. Spare me). He was guiding a power role and no one blinked.
The other players aren't contributing too much.
About Niv\Sammich, I believe Sammich did some bad-play-mistakes. Not something worth of a vote until Niv starts talking.
Y wrote:It is very interesting that once some one noticed there's no pressure on Niv, his wagon started to grow. It seems like people don't want to look illogical.
What bugs me even more is that Sammich was obviously a bad player. The kind of player which gets himself killed due to bad play. Now that Niv's here, we should try and see what he has to say. Trying to shut up a player before he can get himself out of the hole his bad predecessor left him, is scummy.
I think that any one willing to lynch Niv before hearing his thoughts is anti-town.
FoS jerubbaal and Lowell
for that. The third player voting Niv is Near, which I see as the best lynch at the moment.
Wow this is the lamest, most opportunistic response ever. Was I not the 4th vote? Your need to defend Niv is noted.
Lowell wrote:Wow this is the lamest, most opportunistic response ever. Was I not the 4th vote? Your need to defend Niv is noted.
You were the third. Yes, I'm defending Niv since he didn't actually play in this game yet.
Opportunistic? I mentioned the way I dislike your posts already.
I agree that we should be giving Niv a chance to catch up and post a good bit. Please don't be goobers and lynch quickly when we have a chance for some real info.
I don't feel that Y's response was either opportunistic, or lame, for the books, and nor do I think Y was defending anyone.
PokerFace: "I need to play with [Ether] or Mizzy more often."
Nightson: "I'd be more then happy to play with Ether and Mizzy. At the same time."
Muerrto: "Mizzy is my hero and I wanna be like her when I grow younger <3"
It's never too late to dig yourself out of a hole with the truth, unless you've been investigated as scum. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet. So get to work helping us track down your fellow dirtbags! ~ MBL
OK, first of all, Your not getting as detaed responce as I'd hoped. I had this massive post cometing on the entire game, and then, I closed IE insed of hittng the Maximize button, i hit the X, and I'm not rewriting that again.
Lowell wrote:
unvote, vote Niv
. I'm willing to build on this bandwagon, and I too think his quitting under pressure is major scum-tell. Usually townies don't quit under pressure, if for no other reason so they can post a posthumus "Bah, I told you!" post.
Alos, I'm Not "quitin". I'm not Samich. I am not going to tr and justify what he has done this gaem . i will admit his play was less tan stellar, and ther is no jutifying that. wat I will do i say what i think .
irst: mafia plaers posts were painful to read. and I am so d he is no longer in the game.
Also, My main suspussion in this gmae is most definatally Near. all gmae you hve talked in circles, focuseced on the irlivant, and overall hepled very little while postin quite allot. oveall I glean verry lttle from your posts and firmly belive you to be scum.
Vote Near
It's never too late to dig yourself out of a hole with the truth, unless you've been investigated as scum. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened yet. So get to work helping us track down your fellow dirtbags! ~ MBL
It's is so convenient to say you’ve closed the window and is not going to provide us with a detailed summary of what you think of a game, which that has 19 pages.
Niv, “mafia plaers posts were painful to read. and I am so d he is no longer in the game.”
What do you mean my “so d”. Could you please type it out in MS word or do some spell checks before posting please? The amount of typos in your post is making it difficult to read.
I think you ought to provide more than 2 lines to justify your vote really. You haven’t contribute to the discussion so far, as I’m seeing it.
Niv, can you describe the format of the massive post that you deleted by mistake?
For example, was it a player by player analysis, in the style of Near's post 428? Or did you go through the thread noting posts that caught your attention like XReyoX's 399 and 401?
Had you read the thread before you started on your massive post or were you making notes during the read?
XReyoX wrote:Could you please type it out in MS word or do some spell checks before posting please? The amount of typos in your post is making it difficult to read.
