Newbie 569: (Game Over)

[Chickenfish]

someone has to place the first vote and if this does not lead to a scum win it does give the town at least one posible scum to look at.

because posting seems quite frequent in this game it is harder for scum to hammer, as they would have to somehow know the lynching vote could be placed before the initial townie vote was on to unvote.

Just thought I should point out I've already answered this before you even asked it. And I do in fact believe you're scum, but if you're not and I vote it gives the mafia twice us much chance to hammer without the townie being online to unvote...

FoS-that-would-be-a-vote-if-we-weren't-in-lylo: vampire

Is that better?

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

A vote from you would just go further to prove that you are in fact scum so I can completely understand you not voting. If you belive me scum you should have no worries as voting for me, you do yourself no favours now by playing cautiously.

CFs post 416 and my understanding of it I think is good enough reason to reassure myself and hopefuly others of his scumminess.

[Chickenfish]

A vote from you would just go further to prove that you are in fact scum so I can completely understand you not voting.

If you belive me scum you should have no worries as voting for me

, you do yourself no favours now by playing cautiously.

How would a vote prove I'm scum? And as for the bolded bit, are you just not listening to me?

[rolandgarros]

Well at this point, with Vamp growing more and more aggressive without the support of the town, I'm willing to place an FOS on him. However, these last few posts have been controlled by CF and Sonic, and seeing how they are still considered to be a slightly likely scumpair, I'll wait for Batt to say something more, but really even his last post doesn't shine too well for you Vamp. The only thing that makes me think twice is that if you are scum, is there someone within this game that could be considered your scum partner? Because CF and Sonic both seem equally against you, and Batt is against you as well, not to mention I haven't really liked your go-it-alone stance since my own gambit.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Roland having the support of the town is rather irrelevant in this situation as half the players are scum. So how would I even know to have the support of the town unless I had the support of everyone. That was the big premise of me having to abandon my gambit as it was going to be too much work to get the support of the town.
To make it simple yet again either me or CF are scum or both of us are.
The later I don't exect too many people to consider, so you have a choice between us. Go back over the whole thread to get a full view on whom you think most likely.
I will rephrase what I believe to be the most suspicious evidence indicating CF as scum......

Well that's just plain retarded... If you're town you've just totally blown it for us...

Lylo situation and CF gets a vote and this response follows.
Ok so CF thinks this retarded as

If I'm town

thats game over.

If I'm town (and CF is also town)

then I would certainly expect more than this brief comment as he would be right that would be game over but he does not even attempt to try and do anything. If I was a townie in this situation (and others imagine yourselves in this situation) I would put a bit more into it than thats retarded. The only reason I could see CF saying something so brief is that he either believed me to be scum and was not overly concerned. But wait he never said anything of the like at the time and instead later made some rather pointless coment about not being 100% sure but only 75%. And then he belives me to be scum but still no vote. If you belive someone to be scum in this situation then why hold back a vote except to look like you are being cautious. And why does CF need to be cautious well he doesn't as it is plainly obvious that one of us are scum. Or the only other explanation is that CF is scum and knew he was in no danger.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Also from my very brief look over CFs posts day 2

I was more or less (leaning more towards less, but yeah) happy to go with this until you said 'anyone who rubishes this is scum' (not exactly, but close enough). Every time I see that phrase, as with QX yesterday, I just can't help seeing it as scum covering all bases. This doesn't mean I think you're scum vampire,

CF says yeah I was going to go with your plan (presuming me town) untill he saw one phrase:

Now if you are a town then I suggest you strongly support this idea as it has obvious benifits for town and I expect scum to try and rubbish this idea.

So one phrase was reason solely for him to not accept this plan that 3 others were resonably considering. A convieniant excuse IMO, but even the way he uses it is totaly illogical, QX used it yesterday and I thought scum (QX used it and you may well have thought scum but that was in fact said by our cop). Also how does it follow that he can't help seeing this as scum covering all bases but then go on to say this doesn't mean I think you are scum.

I can probably come up with a new post like this everyday or two to try and help show he is scum.

[sonickid01]

Leaving today for 1-2 days, I might have a chance to post but meh.

Vampire, I believe Roland, CF, and I felt the same way about that phrase. It seemed too much like a trap to get everyone, town or scum, to agree. If it were something more 100% obvious and/or sure, it definitely would have made sense, like after proving that someone was cop and having them give an investigation and you could say someone who disagrees is more than likely scum.

Well, since everyone's posted and there hasn't been a hammer, you definitely either:

1. If you're scum, then you were always safe
2. If you're town, you definitely lucked out.

Which leads me to agree with you there, you or CF is scum. :/

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Again 100% are you CFs clone or something......What I have said on that issue is true and has been explained with 2 town and 2 scum I knew it would be hard to pull off and thus was given as a warning to town. I wouldn't say lucked out I took a calculated risk and have got results for the town. You now know that me or cf or both of us are scum. Hmm again I ask would I as scum put myself in such a situation giving you a 50% certainty that I am scum. Give this is no better than what you would have had anyways but from the start of the day I was not deemed too scummy at all. Again why would I in lylo a fairly comfortable situation for scum go out on a limb with a plan of obvious benefit for town. Why draw all this attention to my self. If all of these things you think can more easily be understood as me being scum then I urge you to think about (as roland said) who would my scum partner be.

[Chickenfish]

I will rephrase what I believe to be the most suspicious evidence indicating CF as scum......

Well that's just plain retarded... If you're town you've just totally blown it for us...

Lylo situation and CF gets a vote and this response follows.
Ok so CF thinks this retarded as

If I'm town

thats game over.

If I'm town (and CF is also town)

then I would certainly expect more than this brief comment as he would be right that would be game over but he does not even attempt to try and do anything. If I was a townie in this situation (and others imagine yourselves in this situation) I would put a bit more into it than thats retarded.

I actually did put a bit in. Posting one sentence from my posts and then saying it's all I put in is just blatant misrepresentation.

But wait he never said anything of the like at the time and instead later made some rather pointless coment about not being 100% sure but only 75%.

How is expressing my opinion pointless? You've just gone nuts today - day 1 you were great, but what is going on with you?

And why does CF need to be cautious well he doesn't as it is plainly obvious that one of us are scum.

Ok, this is the third, maybe fourth time I've had to do this. Read carefully, and don't just ignore what I'm saying vampire:

because posting seems quite frequent in this game it is harder for scum to hammer, as they would have to somehow know the lynching vote could be placed before the initial townie vote was on to unvote.

Considering you're so insitant on it though,

Vote: vampire

If you manage to post one logical argument (I'll be surprised) I may unvote, but it does seem like scum would have had sufficient time to hammer me. So, you're right, you are scum.

Go back over the whole thread to get a full view on whom you think most likely.

Not even trying to be subtle about abusing the 'good position' you set up for yourself on day 1...

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

1. I quoted you direct response in its entiriety
2. You can not be 100% sure thus pointless
3. I feel as if I have read your posts carefully, but If you feel there is something I am overlooking then please outline it for me
4. I am perfectly happy with my logic and I hope the two other townies can also see this too
5. Has it occured to you I may have earnt a good position day one by playing well as town and you might have earnt a less favourable position by playing badly as scum. As this has come down to which one of us is scum, it is only resonably that people take into consideration how each of us has played the whole game

I may unvote, but it does seem like scum would have had sufficient time to hammer me. So, you're right, you are scum.

So you waited all this time to see if you got hammered before deciding I must be scum. So before now, in all that time you have been playing with say a 25% belief that I could be town? Go back try again.......If you had been playing & posting with
a certain 25% chance or belief of me being town then you would most certainly be more overly concerned with it being game over for town; that is if you were town.

[Chickenfish]

3. I feel as if I have read your posts carefully, but If you feel there is something I am overlooking then please outline it for me

Every time I have quoted myself in my posts to you, that is what I have been talking about. Read it carefully. I have explained a situation in which it is possible both of us are town, hence my hesitance.

So you waited all this time to see if you got hammered before deciding I must be scum. So before now, in all that time you have been playing with say a 25% belief that I could be town? Go back try again.......If you had been playing & posting with
a certain 25% chance or belief of me being town then you would most certainly be more overly concerned with it being game over for town; that is if you were town.

See above for why I was holding my vote back. As for concern that the game is over - obviously I am concerned, but I can't do anything to stop it if you're not mafia. You're convinced (based on the fact that I don't agree with your logic - think about it, this is the only reason you voted for me in the first place) that I'm scum, and so I can't change your mind. And i certainly couldn't convince the scum (if not you) to not hammer me. But, as I pointed out, due to the length of time my situation in which you could be town has become increasingly more likely, and so I voted for you

[Battousai]

Now with these latest posts, I would have to agree with both CF and Vamp that at least one of you is scum, if not both. The reason I say both has a lot to do with thinking the most reasonable choice for Vamp's partner is CF right now. You both going at each other is a ploy scum pairs sometimes use and I think soon at least one of you is going to jump of attacking theother and go with a townie, probably the one that feels they are the most likely townie in our eyes. Then if their partner is killed they look even better and the next night they leave alive the person they feel will vote with them against the person they switched to at the end of the day.

Right now I would like to voice my opinion in voting CF right now, seems to me more likely scummy, without voting (not sure enough to put at L-1).

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

So this is what CF said in his first post after QXs L-1 of claus and accusation of sonic and him as scum

I'm sorry Quitex but your analysis is way off. Absolutely NOBODY would hammer, especially now that you have included all that analysis saying 'anyone who hammers is scum'. Even if you hadn't included that, of course scum wouldn't vote, it's just plain dumb. Also, if Claus is lynched scum, it's quite likely his partner DOES have a vote on him, as to not seem protective of him. I actually believe that now that you can vote him without lynching, you have done that to both look town, and to distance yourself if he does turn up scum. I also like how you've said 'oh and if you guys vote me you must be scum as well'. You've pretty much covered all bases, and your post has convinced me that you and Claus are partners.
I ask everyone to reread Quitex's faulty logic from the point of view of him and Claus being partners, and see how much sense it makes. I really, really think Claus and/or Quitex need to be lynched today.

now his first post after being voted for in Lylo

Well that's just plain retarded... If you're town you've just totally blown it for us...

He seems very able to put up an aggresive defence on day one but in an even more dangerous situation he only comes up with a couple of lines?

See above for why I was holding my vote back. As for concern that the game is over

Concern that the game could be over...then you act cautious and sit and wait for a belived possible hammer. As town this makes no sense. It could soon be game over dang that sucks oh well I will wait and see.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I am now going to refrain from commeting on CFs post unless absolutely needed to as I am almost cetain he is scum and getting caught up in this would achieve nothing. I have said what I feel I have needed to say, I have outlined my case on him sufficently and can do little more than wait for town to make the right decision and help me lynch scum.

[Chickenfish]

See above for why I was holding my vote back. As for concern that the game is over

Concern that the game could be over...then you act cautious and sit and wait for a belived possible hammer. As town this makes no sense. It could soon be game over dang that sucks oh well I will wait and see.

Please stop misquoting me. What I said was

As for concern that the game is over - obviously I am concerned, but I can't do anything to stop it if you're not mafia. You're convinced (based on the fact that I don't agree with your logic - think about it, this is the only reason you voted for me in the first place) that I'm scum, and so I can't change your mind. And i certainly couldn't convince the scum (if not you) to not hammer me.

I have also explained why I didn't vote for you immediately - why do you keep ignoring me? Oh that's right, you're scum. All you have to do is make me look bad with dodgy logic, hoping I get lynched before anyone realises. On day 1 there was something to be done about QXs bad logic - if you were town there was nothing I could do about getting hammered, but there was still no reason to vote for you. However, after me NOT being hammered, I realised you are right in that you are scum.

[Chickenfish]

EBWOP:

On day 1 there was something to be done about QXs bad logic - if you were town...

For clairty, that should be:
On day 1 there was something to be done about QXs bad logic -

but today

if you were town...[/

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

All you have to do is make me look bad with dodgy logic

I think you are more than capable of taking care of that on your own.

@Batt I have no intention of ever moving my vote off CF as there was ample time for scum to hammer him but this did not happen. I am convinced now he is scum.
His reaction to this is very much similar to his reaction to QX day one, which is try and completly break down the accusors validity in the other townies eyes.
His posts become jumbled his logic faulty but his convictions only gains strength. To me very typical of paniced scum.

CF is scum with no other means to try and escape lynching other than trying to criticize my logic. Every post of his will be trying to discredit my arguments against him and no doubt will become more paniced.

Town do yourselves some credit in this situation and vote the obvious scum.

[Chickenfish]

His reaction to this is very much similar to his reaction to QX day one, which is try and completly break down the accusors validity in the other townies eyes.
His posts become jumbled his logic faulty but his convictions only gains strength. To me very typical of paniced scum.

Can you point out ONE example of faulty logic please?

CF is scum with no other means to try and escape lynching other than trying to criticize my logic. Every post of his will be trying to discredit my arguments against him and no doubt will become more paniced.

Once again, the "disagreeing means you're scum" argument.
I am criticizing your logic because it's so criticizably bad - all you can do is repeatedly tell me "you're logic is dodgy" without any examples...

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

I am perfectly happy with my logic and I hope the two other townies can also see this too

I do not have to try and make you think my logic is solid as you being scum this is a pointless task as you would try and disagree no matter what. It is for benifit of town.

all you can do is repeatedly tell me "you're logic is dodgy" without any examples...

please back this up with something otherwise it means nothing and show complete hypocrasy.

I think you just went and illustrated my point and if you wish examples I have some free time this evening and will post one more post and that will be it. Expect something of say 1000 words or so with many examples and guess who will be the star.............scummy ole chickedfish.

[Chickenfish]

all you can do is repeatedly tell me "you're logic is dodgy" without any examples...

please back this up with something otherwise it means nothing and show complete hypocrasy.

Ok so maybe poorly worded, but you conitnually tell me I'm wrong and you're right without backing it up. It's just frustrating. I don't know why I'm trying to convince you I'm town, you already know that.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

My analysis on CF a mighty undertaking by your fellow townie done in hope of bringing the guilty to true mob justice.

Page 1.

Chickenfish votes for WrathofShadows/Quitex before the game had even started for lurking with a question mark at the end like so?

Page 2

When asked about this vote:

Well mainly because I knew it wouldn't count and wanted to point out that nothing was happening in the game, but also to possibly start something happening in the game.

The game had not started as chicken knows by saying it wouldn't count. But then more reasons are given that it was to start something happening in the game, which had clearly been understood by him to have not started.

Then we have this very wierd "jokey" interchange between sonic and chickenfish posts 30-33.

Now we have the first claus at L-1, order of votes VoD, Chickenfish, Sonickid01.
Battousai places a FoS on sonickid01 for this reason and then we have this response:

This post is pretty much entirely wrong, except for the boled bit, which actually contradicts the rest of your argument.
L-1 is perfectly acceptable this early, because the only person who would hammer is scum, so they would have to reveal themselves to do so, and as such would actually help the town. also, with Claus being L-2, if the mafia BOTH hammered, then they have once again revealed themselves except it is totally game over, so that would never happen either. That was possibly the least logical post I could imagine. FoS: Battousai

I have never heard a townie yet say L-1ing someone on the second page is acceptable for any reason. Also I have noted the obvious attack on Battusai for FoSsing sonickid01. This is a very strong attack way too strong for a townie who simply does not agree with someone.

Seven posts later after Quitex pairs chickenfish and sonickid01:

I was at L-1 from page 3 until page 9 or so in the game I just played, and there was still one mafia around who didn't vote for me. There were also a few first-timers as well, and they knew it was the wrong thing to do to lynch me, so they didn't.
I'm not particularly agreeing with the L-1, but I'm certainly not DISagreeing with it as strongly as Batt was. Also FoS: Batt

Now I dont listen to examples given about what happened in other games, chickenfished has used this a few times as an argument in this game:
@chickenfish if you wish me to believe your example given here please provide a link to this mentioned game.
There is a big contridiction or turnaround here in just 7 posts. From: "L-1 is perfectly acceptable this early" to "I'm not particularly agreeing with the L-1".
He also manages to FoS Battousai a second time.

Page 3

I question chickenfish on his defence of sonickid01 with:

In my mind I see little reason to defend someone else at this stage of the game unless
a) He was my mafia partner
b) I had a very good read on him as Town

@Chickenfish you might have another explanation beyond these two but if you had to choose (and I assume you would go with b) I would like to ask you why you think sonic is town.

Then we get this rather quaint babble bout tatters repeated here in full:

I don't particularly think sonic is town, but I'm not gonna jump up and say 'he L-1ed someone, he must be scum!'.
If I was to say "I like potatoes", and someone replied "He likes potatoes, he must be scum!", you wouldn't neccesarily have to believe I was town to tell them their logic is faulty would you?

Well you have to take into account the fact that potatoes as opposed to L-1ing has no relevance whatsoever in hunting scum.

Yes, but you also have to take into account the fact that saying 'he's not scum for that' is not nearly the equivalent to saying 'he's town'

So what I can gather from this is that chickenfish does not hold the fact that sonic L-1ed claus as something scummy. But he also tries to imply through some vague reference to potatoes that he doesn't think sonic town either.
Thus he manages to avoid my question and not give a clear opinion on his feelings towards sonic at all.

Page 4 (After Quitex put claus at L-1 again in testing his theory)

I'm sorry Quitex but your analysis is way off. Absolutely NOBODY would hammer, especially now that you have included all that analysis saying 'anyone who hammers is scum'. Even if you hadn't included that, of course scum wouldn't vote, it's just plain dumb. Also, if Claus is lynched scum, it's quite likely his partner DOES have a vote on him, as to not seem protective of him. I actually believe that now that you can vote him without lynching, you have done that to both look town, and to distance yourself if he does turn up scum. I also like how you've said 'oh and if you guys vote me you must be scum as well'. You've pretty much covered all bases, and your post has convinced me that you and Claus are partners.
I ask everyone to reread Quitex's faulty logic from the point of view of him and Claus being partners, and see how much sense it makes. I really, really think Claus and/or Quitex need to be lynched today.

Note the last couple of lines and the term "faulty logic" this appears again later. This is scum again trying to discredit the accusor as he is in serious danger if anyone was to believe Quitex.

Ok Quitex, your arguments are just getting worse by the minute, seriously.

You reacted so agressively but you didn't placed a vote on me. Again, why? Because it'll be easier to lynch Claus if the 2 scums are already boting for him. And if you say "No one will hammer him" but you still hold the vote on him, what sense does that make? I DARE you that if you're really so "pro town" to change your vote, scum. Once again, all you've done here is say 'No matter what you do, all you're doing is showing your scum'. Setting me up with no way out is incredibly scummy, so much so that I think I will take your advice and Unvote, Vote: Quitex
Also, why unvote Claus? Is it because your distancing plan backfired and it actually looked like your buddy was going to get lynched? This is the only logic I can find to support it.
Also Claus, your big posts, all you did was summarise the game. You gave VERY little new information, which only adds ot my overeager opinion of you. To satisfy Quitex (because apparently outright telling people you think they're scum isn't enough), FoS: Claus.

However, for Quitex's insane overreaction and terrible logic throughout this game, he definitely seems like the better candidate.

Again skirting round the accusations by trying to demolish the accusor, faulty logic has now turned to terrible logic not just on this isssue but throughout the whole game.

Page 5

What you seem to be missing is that I thought, and still do think, that Claus is scum. Also, as argued before (even by yourself in a relly strange way), an early L-1 will NOT cause a lynch, as town don't want it and scum are smart. You are trying to create suspicion where there is none, which points to one thing that I think we all know... scum!

chickenfish is by far the most agressive in building a case against Quitex and his "you are missing something", "you logic is faulty" and assertion "you are scum" are all being repeated day two with myself.
Town was fooled by him day one please do not be fooled again.

You are going to look mighty silly when it is revealed that I am in fact town (whether it be due to lynched, NK, or end of game) and you see that I am not in fact 'hiding in facts' but 'stating facts'. Unless, of course, 2 of you, sonic, and Claus are scum (which I believe you and Claus are). So either way you either don't know what your talking about, or your getting your frustration about the fact that you haven't been able to lynch anyone out on me by trying to make it look like my problem. It is highly possible there has been no lynch yet because 2 of the people who are high on people's suspicion (you and Claus) are scum.

Roland picked up on a couple of points:

Very useless post. "you are going to look might silly when I am town". First of all there is no overwhelming pressure that you will be lynched, so there is no point to say this. Plus, as far as I know, saying something to the effect of "you'll be wrong when I'm dead" is a slight scumtell. Any reason why you had to say that? Plus you're not exactly convincing me with your evaluation of Quitex's motives or your last statement, which I'm not even sure means anything.

Response follows:

@Claus: I haven't replied to your question because my vote was already explained - it's like asking Quitex to tell me why he thinks sonic and I are scum...
If you read back to the initial voting post you'll see there why I voted (although it was more one of those transitions from random to actual voting), and then whenever you posted something I disagrred with/thought dodgy I pointed it out, so I'm not really sure what else you want me to say...

@roland & QX: The point of that post was to have a go at Quitex repeatedly saying 'you are hiding behind facts', which I don't even understand. If it's a fact, it is a solid argument, not something to hide behind. My argument of 'nobody would have hammered there' is a simple truth, and I don't understand how Quitex can't see that.

Again chickenfish seems very good at dodging questions. Later he criticizes me for my style of asking questions as he claims it makes it easy for scum or something of the like. I am sure we will get that in full later, but at this stage it sems chcikenfish is not doing a good job at answering the questions directed at him. He also likes this "facts" and "truth" which as Quitex points out they are mere possibilities not facts. (post 123)

Also I note claus post at the bottom of the page as it states some rather revealing things about chickenfish

I see your posts as a jumbled mess - If you are scum, you are trying to hide the wholes in your logic by shouting very loud and waving a lot. If you are town, this exercise may help you see if there is something wrong in your logic.

Also, a second question I made to you, which you did not answer, is: what do you think of my reasons to find Sonic scummy? Do you agree/disagree with them, and why?

Page 6

Post 125

I was never putting you two in a team, I was merely using an in-game example.

Wow after stating that Quitex and Claus were a scum team you have the balls to call it an in-game-example. This is blatant outright lying.

When asked by Claus to give his opinion on sonic (or his reaction to Claus reasons for finding sonic scummy) which as earlier mention he was reluctant to do we have:

What relevance does my opinion have (obviously we should all be collaborating, but why MY specific opinion)? As for what you said about sonic - I can see where you are coming from, but I personally disagree with it. Especially the use of 'bloodthirsty'. Overexaggerating much?

Very reluctant in revealing anything of substance about sonickid01 and seems totaly freaked out and defensive about it all.

Post 136

@Everyone: Can we please try to get out of the 'team game' thinking. It will only hurt the town. I am clearly not in a 'team' with sonic, rolland and Batt are only in a 'team' because they weren't posting much, and

Claus and Quitex are in a 'team' because once upon a time I said I thought they were scum. Sure, they seem to be defending each other and ignoring each other's flaws a whole lot, which only adds to my suspicions, but this doesn't make them some sort of 'team' unless they actually are scum

. If you look at it like a team game, when one of the air comes up scum/town, you will be inclined to think the other is of the same alignment, based on nothing other than the 'team' they were in.

chickenfish first response to Quitex calling him and sonic a scum team through the L-1ing of Claus was to call Quitex and Claus a scum team back. The bolded part of the quote is again like his potatoes argument which looking at it now I guess I can make a comment.
I have finaly come up with hte respnse to potatoes logic,
It is saying Just because I am a cow doesn't mean I eat grass.
This argument is trying to say to people just because that is the most logical conclusion doesn't mean it is true.
Now at this stage in the game sonickid01 and chickenfish are roughly second and third in suspicion so it is thus understandable that chickenfish would want to not be put into a team. Yet he is still putting Quitex and Claus into a team even if he tries to disagree with potatoe logic.

Post 149

Now, I personally believe they are the two mafiates in this game, so it is perfectly valid for me to see them as a team. However, this doesn't mean I think I am with sonic or rolland and Batt are together, and nor does it mean that everyone should be talking about the 'Claus Quitex team'. The fact is, scum are knowingly a team, so if you think you know the 2 scum, you think they are a team, even if they don't seem to have anything to do with each other. Conversely, if you aren't sure on a pair but have individual suspicions, or if you DO think there is a pair going on, don't put EVERYBODY into pairs, it just doesn't make sense.
Also, as for my 'unsubstantial accusation',

A lot of words of little meaning apart from it is ok for chickenfish to play the team game but not anyone else.

You post your 3 scum, with brief justification, and now rather than actively participate in scumhunting you say 'so what do YOU think of this?' rather than saying 'this is how I see it' which both provides us with your opinion, as well as effectively asking people the question anyway as people will generally agree with/challenge major points anyway. I am not saying you are scum, I am merely saying that your accusations of rolland/Batt being unhelpful, while I did agree with them, are a tad hypocritical.

Here is the attack on me for my style of asking questions.

Page 7

More attacks on my style of asking questions

I'm not trying to tell you that I think you're scum, I'm just pointing out that asking for specific things it not the way to go about it. For example, those questions you asked. Without the questions, the post you made still invites answers to those questions, as this whole game is about people's opinions of everyone else. However, if you were to ask this of a scum, he/she could say
I find this unhelpful
I agree with this
I find this hypocritical
By doing this, you allow scum to get away with just answering specific questions, rather than having to post a structured response that can cause accidental slip-ups. Also, if you ask the questions of me, scum can sit in the dark and go 'my opinion wont be missed'. That is what I find unhelpful and hypocritical about it - it brings less information to the town than if you were to not ask the questions at all.
So maybe I'm stressing this too much, and don't think you did anything to provoke it, I was more just pointing out the game as I saw it.

My response

You say that without the questions I would invite people to answer those questions anyway? This makes no sense whatsoever as those questions wouldn't be there to answer. Sorry if im not following you here but this is just plain illogical.

You believe that we should just let people give nice structured posts of their thoughts/opinions let them comment as they wish not ask specific questions on things we find strange illogical or scummy and let them slip up on their own?
Sorry I have to disagree with this entirely.....to say dont ask questions they dont help let the scum slip up on their own is exactly what a scum would say.
As for scum sitting in the dark I dont know what you mean by this do you mean not post or say much? If so I think that if they did it would be noticed anyway and me asking questions of you would give them hardly any cover to hide behind so I find this an irrelavent point.

chickenfish is not in the least bit happy of me asking questions, but this is a very good thing for town to do so I thought why would he not be liking of this so I went back and looked at page 6.
Here are a couple of the questions I was asking:

@rolland if you think cf the most suspicious (and I also get the feeling claus could be of a similar opinion) why not have your vote there?

Sonic now seems to have dropped right out of consideration after (if your list was in order) being at the top of your list. You say CF has done little to change your mind, but may I ask if sonic has done anything to change your opinion of him?
You previously linked Sonic to CF so if CF is top suspect for you now then who would you link him to?

Page 8

I'm not just sitting here insulting you. I'm merely pointing out that everything you've said is illogical. That's not the same thing, and I can see why people might think I'm pouring emotion into this but I'm really not, I just find it strange that nobody realises how little sense your posts make.

Again not attacking the argument but rather the arguee.

The 'mumbling about potatoes' was my stupid way of trying to say 'supporting a theory isn't the same as supporting the person who posed the theory'. If anybody have had put the L-1 there I would have had the same reaction and said it wasn't necessarily scummy.

I have already cracked the potatoes logic and this is not a convincing argument at all. This is evidence against your scum partner and you couldn't go with it as that would mean everyone against sonic.

I never said to not ask people questions when you have

specific

questions of them, but more don't ask people questions about the post you've just made, as people will respond anyway.

Another blatant lie about what he had said, proof from above quote page 7:

I'm not trying to tell you that I think you're scum, I'm just pointing out that asking for

specific

things it not the way to go about it.

By doing this, you allow scum to get away with just answering

specific questions

, rather than having to post a structured response that can cause accidental slip-ups.

Now to finish off we get:

If you have any questions about actions I've made earlier in the day that you think need justifying feel free to ask.

Wow now I get an invite to ask questions.

Page 9

Nothing from chickenfish. From this point on the most suspicion lay on Quitex and he was easily seen as the most likely candidate for lynching. From this point on chickenfishes posts become a lot shorter less frequent filled with less fury and sometimes are actually helpful.

Page 10

I'm inclined to disagree with this, but I'm also disagreeing with vampire.
vampire, voting with the masses is not actually democracy, it is being led. If you let yourself be led in this game, you'll find you don't get very far, as eventually you just turn into a bandwagonner. Democracy is what this game is - everybody votes for who they want lynched, and the person with the most votes is lynched. So, in ths game, democracy isn't overrated, but it certainly isn't what vampire is making it out to be.
Don't vote because people tell you to, or because everyone else is - vote because you want to see the person you're voting for lynched

Some good advice from chickenfish. And some of it I think has helped me day two.

Page 11

Back on page 10 after having said somewhere that if Qx was town and Claus was also he would be lost we have:

All I can make out from the last few pages is that you are becoming more and more desperate, and that suddenly from not being in consideration, roland is now probably my #2 suspect.

now we get:

I'm with vampire here on you being VERY unhelpful roland... it's just plain frustrating

Perhaps this is chickenfish giving himself a suspect for day two as he knows Qx and Claus to be both town and has already decided on a claus lynch.

Page 11

Qx, roland is deliberately ignoring vampire's questions which is unhelpful - I am enjoying more and more your weak attempts to make everything I do scum. roland justified himself (well, cryptically said things may not be what they seem), and for the moment that's good enough for me.
it's also entertaining you acting as if you know exactly what roland is doing, when I think it's safe to say none of us know quite yet. I'm just hoping it's helpful...

The way chickenfish is talking about roland does not really seem to fit with him being a #2 suspect. He calls roland unhelpful yet he justifies himself. And his opinion of roland has gone from frustrating to that's good enough for me.

Page 13

Basically, I think you should take the hint from more or less everyone: you're full of it Qx. You're posts make no sense, and are completely illogical.

Again attacking the person not the logic.

[/quote="chickenfish"]Can I point out that we were actually close to a lynch, then you guys went off on 2 pages of one line posts about nothing. vampire, you said you can back out of it at any time: back out. You guys aren't helping us find scum, so just stop. Same goes roland, if you want to teach vampire something I think you've probably made whatever point you were trying to make - so come out with it so we know what you were doing. Otherwise stop wasting time...

Wow chickenfish seems very angry about moving away from a lynch which was most likely going to be Qx.

.............................. 'V"""V' .............................

So given this document I wish to ask town how could you possibly let chickenfish win as scum after comiting all these things day one.

I have an ending that might be fitting for town.

We lynch chickenish turn our vengence on the next most likely and scummy person sonic and then live happily ever after.

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

How you like them potatoes!

[rolandgarros]

I very well think that you have a strong case here vampire. As opposed as others are to you, I bring up a point I made in my last post and in your response to that post that you are basically acting by yourself with the rest of the "town" against you. If you were scum, the tide isn't so against you that your partner would risk a bus, so more likely than not you're town. In other words, you still sound logical and not insane like QX was; I don't think that if you were scum your partner would bus you at this point. CF on the other hand with his case has much support, and that is where the deciding factor for me comes in. Your last post (the long one) really nails the coffin in... So I'm really hoping I'm right on this one and that I don't make a mistake...

vote: CF

[rolandgarros]

And damn its 3 AM so sorry if that last post didn't make much sense rhetorical-wise

[thevampireofdusseldorf]

Wow I kinda get what your saying and I find it very odd a saving grace for myself was having no support. The gambit was and still is IMO a very tricky thing to pull off. Look at what happened to Qx. More practice perhaps to balance the risk against the gain.