A cult can't talk to a recruit the night they're recruited, because recruitments happen at the end of the night.MOD: were leaders allowed to talk to their recruits last night?
Ok, so the working hypothesis is that Occult is bussing to avoid association and prevent Blaze from doing anything else stupid.aioqwe wrote: Seems like Blaze's cult leader. His first 11 posts are very content light. And he kindly sprinkled in some defense for Blaze. That's wonderful leader action don't you think? Stay on the low while trying to make sure your new recruit doesn't get lynched to quickly. However after, Blaze claims this guy is all for Blaze's death. EVEN with all of the disusion on how we should focus our efforts on killing the leader. He continues to insinuate that there is a possibility of Blaze being the leader trying to pull of a gambit that the recruit stays alive longer than the leader. On the otherhand, as a leader, occult would want to get rid of Blaze so that he can't be associated with the leader.
Well, if Blaze's going to get vigged anyway, he'd probably rather lynch him in order to distance, right?NabakovNabakov wrote: Why would he continue even after Mno had made it clear he was going to vig Blaze? Wouldn't that effectively eliminate the problemandtie up a vig kill. Whereas his plan now would likely have Blaze lynched and himself vigged/investigated as backlash.
Well if Occult really is Blaze's leader, this situation has festered for so long that there's no course of action he could take to effectively distance. The best use for Blaze at that point would pretty much be as a meatsheild. (That's assuming Occult-leader would be able to escape today's lynch)Yosarian2 wrote:Well, if Blaze's going to get vigged anyway, he'd probably rather lynch him in order to distance, right?NabakovNabakov wrote: Why would he continue even after Mno had made it clear he was going to vig Blaze? Wouldn't that effectively eliminate the problemandtie up a vig kill. Whereas his plan now would likely have Blaze lynched and himself vigged/investigated as backlash.
Eh. The question has become a really WIFOM-ish question of "if Occult was cult leader and linked to Blaze, would he think it would look more scummy if he contined to press his distancing attack on Blaze, or if he backed off under pressure?"NabakovNabakov wrote: Well if Occult really is Blaze's leader, this situation has festered for so long that there's no course of action he could take to effectively distance. The best use for Blaze at that point would pretty much be as a meatsheild. (That's assuming Occult-leader would be able to escape today's lynch)
(shrug) I don't know if mnowax is being truthful. I don't really care, either, as no matter what his alignment is he's likely to be dead tonight after that claim; if he's a vig, the SK will likely kill him, if he's not, the vig will likely kill him.springlullaby wrote:And then there is Yosarian's reaction to mnowax claim, he reacted as if he knew him to be truthful, while in fact the fact that he claimed with hardly any vote on him make me find it suspicious.
We want cult members dead, but we can't afford to lynch them yet. If we lynch a cult member, then another person gets recruited tonight, it's bad for the town, since the cult didn't get any smaller and then the town did. What we need to do is lynch cult recruiter(s), and we need to do it now. If we don't, then no matter how many cult recruits we lynch, we still lose.Then there is the idea that lynching recruit is bad. That doesn't make sense either. Of course lynching cult leader is best, but lynching recruit is not so bad if there isn't a better alternative. Because number in cults count and will I think ultimately come back to bite town in the arse if cultees are left to thrive in plain sight.
Er, no, Yos, if he's SK or Leader he's got a nightkill immunity and will live to tomorrow.I don't really care, either, as no matter what his alignment is he's likely to be dead tonight after that claim; if he's a vig, the SK will likely kill him, if he's not, the vig will likely kill him.
There is always a better alternative: best guess for cult leader.Of course lynching cult leader is best, but lynching recruit is not so bad if there isn't a better alternative.
His claim was a bad idea no matter what.Occult wrote:Look, if blaze is cult recruit his claim makes no goddamn sense at the point in the game he did it.
If blaze is a leader, I can find find some reasons for his claim.
Well, if Mnowax is cult leader, he's likely to be targeted by both the vig and the SK and still die tonight. If he's SK, he'll be targeted by the real vig, and if that dosn't kill him the real vig is likely to claim tommorow. Really, I can't see Mnowax claiming what he did unless he's telling the truth, there's just no reason he would.the silent speaker wrote:Er, no, Yos, if he's SK or Leader he's got a nightkill immunity and will live to tomorrow.
No, as a leader his claim of being a recruit draws attention away from him....aioqwe wrote:As a claimed recruit he's going to die today, tonight, or tomorrow. It would have been better to claim roleblocker (rather than converted). As a recruit, his claim draws attention away from his leader.
Pulling 180s when being called out for something tends to draw suspicion.
Lynching a possible leader is better than lynching recruit, in general. In this situation I think we should try and find the leader to lynch.
What's the case against spring again?
Occult wrote: No, as a leader his claim of being a recruit draws attention away from him....
Of course we don't know that. The point is, a cult leader wouldn't know either of those things either, and so adding in the whole roleblocker part of the claim just adds lots of extra risk for absolutly no reason if he's not telling the truth.Occult wrote: TSS isn't a confirmed power role and even if he was how would he know if he was blocked. We're also not even sure if there is a role blocker or if he would claim. I'm just saying you shouldn't rule it out so easily.
If I had claimed just roleblocker, I would have been killed at night by the sk. If I hadnt claimed, because of my dumb play throught all the game, I would probably have been killed during night too... So whatever...aioqwe wrote:As a claimed recruit he's going to die today, tonight, or tomorrow. It would have been better to claim roleblocker (rather than converted). As a recruit, his claim draws attention away from his leader.
I don't see what is particularly "cult leader-like" about attacking the list. I don't even think it is necessarily scummy - I can think it reasonable for town to react with suspicion of something so odd as what I did. I can also fathom scum trying to look busy by attacking it. Anyway, it doesn't strictly suggest CL, does it?Armlx wrote: The case against spring is he has really been holding back all game until this last post, and he attacked vollkan for his list. Both very cult leader-like behaviors.
I brought up some other suspicions in this post and just haven't re-voted yet.curiouskarmadog wrote:Waiting for Spring to reread.
Occult, why are you not voting Blaze at this time?
Seems like a big risk for blaze to claim blocking TSS, unless he knows that TSS isnt a power role that is. I think Blaze is the recruit, Mno an idiot vig. I think the vig should take out the recruit...and we should track down the leader(s).
The second is just scum like in general, but the first is cult leader like as typically their game plan is to just live for a few nights, at which point everything resolves itself well for them.vollkan wrote:I don't see what is particularly "cult leader-like" about attacking the list. I don't even think it is necessarily scummy - I can think it reasonable for town to react with suspicion of something so odd as what I did. I can also fathom scum trying to look busy by attacking it. Anyway, it doesn't strictly suggest CL, does it?Armlx wrote: The case against spring is he has really been holding back all game until this last post, and he attacked vollkan for his list. Both very cult leader-like behaviors.